New Collectors - What's Important for me to Know?

rj martin said:
"Seriously, it is virtually impossible to survive an attack by someone that employs two knives simultaniously. Almost all, check that ALL Western counter knife training is useless because it only deals with a single blade."


Which is why I am running away and dialing 911 on my cellphone. And, I make that decision as soon as I see the first knife.
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Better to be up against a guy with two knives than two 9mms. To your point RJ you can run from the guy with the knives.
 
Well, when you are all attacked by a guy with two knives in a mall, you'll wish there were a certificated Third Degree Mall Ninja like me around to deploy my combination smoke screen/knock-out gas and escape up the walls with my hand claws.

Then we'll see who's laughing. Then we'll see.
 
Kevin Jones said:
So you actually started collecting after joining BF? That's probably the way to do it. Gain the knowledge first. I got into collecting forged knives and then learned a lot from Bob Neal and Jerry. I have definitly picked up a lot in the last 4 or 5 months from you guys here.
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Before I joined BF I was into high end production knives, but had been interested in custom knives for decades. It was only after joining BF and reading what was posted here that I finally decided to take the plunge and get a Darrel Ralph Madd Maxx (the first one with a dagger blade).

One thing I wish for all the new collectors is that they get to have a first encounter with customs like I did. Darrel was friendly, helpful, and professional. If he had been a jerk, I would not be a custom knife collector today. Hopefully makers realize how important it is to treat everyone like they would want to be treated themselves. This is especially true of new collectors.
 
I'm in the process of acquiring my first custom knife. I bought a small folder from Al Warren at the Pasadena Show. I then ordered a larger one from him with damscus and mammoth. He's responded to all of my e-mails (uh, I've e-mailed him about 13 times in the last two weeks) and he's provided me with pictures of the process. I may be laying on the praise a bit thick, but it's been a good experience thus far.
 
I'm not new to knives, but maybe I'm new to collecting without even realising it. I've accumulated to the point some would call mine a collection. One thing I haven't read here is the effect of use. I don't hesitate to buy a piece if it's been used properly. Even though I carry and use a few customs, I have little idea how it affects value. I rarely buy to invest, but I may. I see big differences in purposes for collecting; to use, to enjoy ownership, or to profit.

So how about the so-called condition? Even daggers and large bowies can be mishandled, poorly stored, scratched, or otherwise taken below "new" condition. I know there are standards but how is value affected? I've seen abused blades go for substantial sums. I know what happens in refinished collector firearms but not much about refinished (professionally) blades.
By the way, since I've made a few fixed from blanks, I've a much greater appreciation of what it takes to end up with something that says "custom". Sort of like tying full dress salmon flies...

Firearms, fly rods, blades. It's hopeless.
 
Being older then most of you from the time when animals were still talking(now they use a PC) you had only a few custom makers that survived and they were the TOP.Moran, Loveless, Centofante,Borger, Kressler .....Now you have a prolifiration of makers and a lot of them are sub zero but much more are excellent then in the sixties I see very good ones.The only real problem is the marketing (lies),stupid tests, manipulation of the demand ,badmouthing the others, overreaction if another person dares to "offend" your favorite product,super testers that are classified members of secret special operations.
An honest maker needs respect, money and peace.
I respect Chris Reeve,Bill Moran(for ever), and a lot of good guys.The ones I don't like are nameless , I just ignore them.My collection is based on admiration and friendship for this makers.
 
=[deovolens;
I respect Chris Reeve,Bill Moran(for ever), and a lot of good guys.The ones I don't like are nameless , I just ignore them.My collection is based on admiration and friendship for this makers.
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I totally agree with you.
In my opinion, it's not just about the knives.

I buy form makers that I like, respect, and who continue to work for and with you after the sale.
By work for and with you, I mean they continue to improve on their ability, promote themselves and their knives and the knife industry in general.

Some makers get to plateau then seem to relax and fall into decline. The value of your knives decline with them. I feel it's very important for the new collector to realize that "it’s not just about the knives". http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442207
 
There have been some really good threads on here lately and this one's no exception.

There's not many places where collectors, a couple makers and one dealer get together and hash out this stuff :D
 
straitshot said:
One thing I haven't read here is the effect of use.

So how about the so-called condition? I know there are standards but how is value affected? I've seen abused blades go for substantial sums.
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Condition will make a great deal of difference to the resale value of a knife. Even minor scratches can have a large affect. It depends on the knife somewhat. As far as percentages go, I will have to leave that up to others.

Even older knives such as 1800's bowies and Scagels are worth more in better condition.
 
I agree with sunfishman. It sometimes feels like I'm watching (reading) a rerun of "Cheers" with all the back and forth banter from this motley cast of regulars.
 
With regards to condition and value. What are your thoughts on a custom knife being sent back to the maker to be reconditioned and brought back to "new condition"? It seems to me that only mint never used, never carried, never sharpened, 100% condition knives usually command the highest prices on the secondary market.

Older knives: I have a Scagel that was my grandfather's hunting knife that was used extensively during his lifetime and then poorly cared for before it came to me. Due to the condition it is now worth about 33% what a similar top condition Scagel would be.
 
Krug82,

100% is certainly the best, and commands the highest price. If a knife has not been abused or sharpened badly, a maker can bring it back to 99%. If I really like the knife, it is essentially a non-issue. Also it probably is an older piece which will normally be selling at a lower price than a maker's current price.

P

ALSO I think this needs repeating here. NEVER pay a maker in advance for a knife. NEVER give a maker a deposit.
 
ptgdvc said:
Seriously, it is virtually impossible to survive an attack by someone that employs two knives simultaniously. Almost all, check that ALL Western counter knife training is useless because it only deals with a single blade.
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D'uh - a GUN! You leave it to a Canadian to come up with that one? :D

Seriously Peter, I think you must be lurking an awful lot at the Green forum. :p

RJ - Face it, sometimes you just make too much sense.

Roger
 
WWG - there are lots of very high performing "factory" knives out there - you ought to get out more. I would trust my "nuts" to my Spyderco Lil' Temperance, for example. How 'bout a Spyderco Perrin Street Beat if you like fixed blades?

Anthony - If you won't name names, then don't bother to bring up your nameless 50% list - total chicken s**t.

While I agree that a number of the "speciality" knife manufacturers make fine products and some small shop makers make less than fine products, I don't differentiate between "custom" and "factory" knives. When measured by quality, I don't really care how they are made. Select small shops (you might call them "custom") make work that no factory will be able to reproduce in the forseeable future (Phil Boguszweski comes to mind - we are in agreement on that). If you like sittin' down and having a beer with a small shop maker at a show -that is great. Sitting down with Sal Glesser is just as interesting. Large shops all have a public face too, some more personal than others. I never imagine sitting down with the director of operations at Mantis Knives - but who knows what you will find if you do? Kershaw / Kai is doing an awesome job of breaking down the artificial barrier between large and small shop production.

If you are going to really collect small shop makers- i.e. buy them and set them aside without the intention of flipping at a moments notice, then I would say that you should be prepared to spend several years really developing your taste. You can do this without buying (and having to sell off) knives that you later realize you don't want. There are many great books to look through (that is how I got started). Like Joss recommended, a knife class is also great. If you have the money, go to Blade, the Plaza Art Show, Solvang and the NY Custom Show, before you buy anything. I also recommend working with a less or un-known maker and design your dream knife and have a real custom knife built, just for you. It is very satisfying and IMO, moreso than buying up a prized pattern knife from a small shop maker.
 
RogerP said:
D'uh - a GUN! You leave it to a Canadian to come up with that one? :D

Seriously Peter, I think you must be lurking an awful lot at the Green forum. :p

Roger
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Roger,

Sorry to say, but you are wrong on both counts! :D

You didn't read the full sized fine print:
Life and death struggle, no guns, what is THE most important thing to be carrying routinely on your person in addition to the knife of your choice?

No danger of me lurking at the Green forum and drinking any Green Koolaid! I've been banned! :thumbup: Their Braintrust figured out that when I called the Mickey Burger Ajax custom pry bar of death STUNNING, I wasn't really flattering the knife because of its Krylon spray on camo finish. ;)

P
 
ptgdvc said:
Krug82,

100% is certainly the best, and commands the highest price. If a knife has not been abused or sharpened badly, a maker can bring it back to 99%. If I really like the knife, it is essentially a non-issue. Also it probably is an older piece which will normally be selling at a lower price than a maker's current price.

P

ALSO I think this needs repeating here. NEVER pay a maker in advance for a knife. NEVER give a maker a deposit.
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I would agree except in a case where a collector was asking the maker to make something out of his normal realm. Such as a sword, highly decorated piece or such. In that case, the collector should expect at least to pay the maker's cost to produce up front.
 
ptgdvc said:
Roger,

Sorry to say, but you are wrong on both counts! :D

You didn't read the full sized fine print:
Life and death struggle, no guns, what is THE most important thing to be carrying routinely on your person in addition to the knife of your choice?
Click to expand...

Okay then, I'll take a Bradshaw Katana against the bad guy's two folders. I like my chances. :p

Roger
 
Kevin Jones said:
I would agree except in a case where a collector was asking the maker to make something out of his normal realm. Such as a sword, highly decorated piece or such. In that case, the collector should expect at least to pay the maker's cost to produce up front.
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You are absolutely correct and that is completely reasonable.

I would strongly caution a new collector AGAINST:
asking the maker to make something out of his normal realm. Such as a sword, highly decorated piece or such.

P
 
krug82 said:
With regards to condition and value. What are your thoughts on a custom knife being sent back to the maker to be reconditioned and brought back to "new condition"? It seems to me that only mint never used, never carried, never sharpened, 100% condition knives usually command the highest prices on the secondary market.

Older knives: I have a Scagel that was my grandfather's hunting knife that was used extensively during his lifetime and then poorly cared for before it came to me. Due to the condition it is now worth about 33% what a similar top condition Scagel would be.
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Collectors vary in how they judge condition. What I consider good condition another may consider mint and vise versa. Many times it depends on the collector's eye or how close they inspect. Some collectors will even inspect under magnification.
And the importance of condition varies between collectors.
On new pieces from the maker, I suggest taking great care of them to insure they stay mint or as new. Then upon sale you don't have to worry about the buyer's eye or expectation as much.

Showing new collectors how to care for knives is a whole different thread.
 
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