New Contest Rules !

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It's unfortunate that it had to come to this but there probably wasn't any other way around it, it's a fair compromise and helps support this site as well. On a positive note by upgrading to gold your chances of winning a random contest should increase due to less members putting their names in the hat and if you are lucky enough to win you'll be ahead of the game :).

RP# 64
 
gundude73 said:
what threads are reading that make you think ESEE is out to make money?
like others have said the contests are for fun, not the main reason why we are here.
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Just to be clear, ESEE is a business and we do make money, otherwise we would shut our doors. With that said, we minimize profits so we can give away stuff and support the community as a whole. We have no problem admitting that we run at a 25 to 30 percent gross profit margin on our product. But when you take away costs of doing business (full time ofice manager, trade shows, free stuff, contests, light bill, office expenses, etc. etc. etc.) then that profit margin gets pretty slim. For example, it costs us in excess of 10K to do the SHOT show every year. Blade show costs us about 4K. Do we HAVE to do this? No. We would still sell the same number of knives without doing it but we enjoy meeting our customers and listening to them. We are a very end-user oriented business and always will be.

Mike and I still live in the same POS houses we had before starting this company, I drive a 1994 Land Crusier that I paid 3500 bucks for, still wear blue jeans, still grow vegetables and work my ass off on the farm, etc. We're rgeular folks but we put any extra money back into new product devleopment and growing the company in real terms (not just throwing new shit on the market) to bring better training and gear to the end user.
 
I guess I said all of that in the last post to say this: We welcome ANYONE who wants to get into this business and deal with all the agonies of running a business. In fact. we are more than helpful to "competition" and upcoming knife makers since it benefits the community, and end-user, as a whole. So, before anyone wants to trash our efforts on what we are doing, I suggest getting a business license and trying it for yourself. It's not as simple as sitting back and making money, especially when you genuinely care about the folks using your product. Spark and others are in business because they want to further the industry first, and make money second. If Spark was trying to get rich on BFs he'd have quit a long time ago. Ok, my rant is over with :D
 
:thumbup: since we started our collaboration there's not been a single day where I haven't been so pleased to have found business partners with the same ethics as mine.

I am so much looking forward to Shot Show next year to finally meet you guys. Unless you plan to come this side of the ponds before that.
 
gundude73 said:
what threads are reading that make you think ESEE is out to make money?
like others have said the contests are for fun, not the main reason why we are here.
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Well, every company that wants to be considered successful is out to make money. ESEE cannot be blamed for wanting to make money. Giving away free merchandise, and at the same time involving it's buyers in a productive way is a common way to create hype and fervour, I do it in my business all the time!
Concerning the $25 membership fee..I understand Redeyes frustration. I justified it like this. If you go to someones party, it's considered common courtesy to bring something yourself. It isn't manditory, it's just nice to contribute to make it a Bangin' party!
Plus, where else would I have had the opportunity to hone my skills at lighting a fire with a water filled condom!! I had sooo much fun during the last contest, that I wouldn't want to miss out on another contest, who knows what we'll be doing then.

All in all, it's been a WIN situation,

Thank you to both parties.
 
well i meant make money in the sense of gouging the end user. there is a difference between gouging and staying viable.
 
I know what you meant, it's just that "Not here to make money" "Not going to retire off of this" get's thrown around a lot. It comes across deceiving, or even fake.

My comment wasn't an attack or even directed to you Gundude, it was just easier to "quote" :D

Just my .02cents
 
yeah i should have worded it better in hindsight :foot: and congrats on going gold doc13, nice sig line. ;)
 
R.A.T. said:
I guess I said all of that in the last post to say this: We welcome ANYONE who wants to get into this business and deal with all the agonies of running a business. In fact. we are more than helpful to "competition" and upcoming knife makers since it benefits the community, and end-user, as a whole. So, before anyone wants to trash our efforts on what we are doing, I suggest getting a business license and trying it for yourself. It's not as simple as sitting back and making money, especially when you genuinely care about the folks using your product. Spark and others are in business because they want to further the industry first, and make money second. If Spark was trying to get rich on BFs he'd have quit a long time ago. Ok, my rant is over with :D
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:thumbup:

people need to realize that these contests DON'T have to be run. ESEE does them out of their generosity. I think Jeff has taken well care of all the ESEE forum users between giveaways, answering any questions that are asked right away, and being upfront about everything.
 
I agree with the new ruling and even though I doubt I'll upgrade to Gold anytime soon, I'll still be happy here. Winning free stuff is fun but, that's not why I joined this forum. Hell I pretty much ONLY post in the ESEE forum and if I had not made friends through the chat the Shotgunners run I doubt I'd even still be around. :p

Don't see why people bitch about free shit being given away. Just remember all it takes is one asshat to screw it up for everyone. Instead of getting mad at the new rules, get mad at the idiot who screwed it up for you.
 
R.A.T. said:
What a great offer! And that's the cool thing about our most of our large dealers - they care as much about their customers as we do.

I would like to address Redeye direct though: Spark has been giving us "free advertisment" (for lack of a better word) ever since we started this business. He has NEVER asked for anything in return, even though we pay other mediums for advertising.

You haven't burned a bridge with us because we appreciate you as a customer and we respect your opinion. That, in itself, is what this forum is all about: we accept the negative thoughts about our company policies and product, in a public format, as well as we accept the positive. As long as we're here, we will always do that.

We are under no obligation to give anything away for free, but since we are giving stuff away, we want to fashion it in a way to help out this forum and support the expenses of this forum. The bottom line with any business (and whether we accept it or not BFs is a business) is it has to make money to survive. Server costs for a forum this size is pretty high, not to mention time and effort that goes into contsantly upgrading and making it a great experience. Sure, we could just send a check to Spark to help out on the forum expenses but that's pretty impersonal, especially with the way this forum works. We want to see BFs continue to do well and since we use this forum to communciate with our customers, launch new product, etc. then trying to help this forum while offering some free stuff to members who also use this forum for information and communication makes sense to us.

No one is under any obligation to become a Gold member. And those who don't will always be part of the "ESEE Family" Furthermore, we give away a LOT of product outside of Bladeforums to various organizations to help with their costs. Numerous wounded veterans associations, military charities, law enforcment charities, etc. We also give away a lot of product at various trade shows (such as Blade) and they never require anything of anyone except being there.

This whole thing to us is about a philosophy on how to do business. The offer from Monsieur is a prime example of that. In other words, we are doing our best to create a "family" that cares about the individual end user as much as it does about the industry as a whole. Dealers and distributors who don't care about their custoemrs and the integrity of the industry don't stay dealers and distributors of our product for too long. So, making money is secondary to building a an honest business that cares about it's customers, end users and those who support this industry. Bladeforums has probably brought more people into the knife and self-sufficieny world than any other medium, while continuing to offer all of this free to anyone who simply wants to log on. We appreciate that.
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Although I disagree with the policy, I do respect and appreciate that you've taken the time to answer, especially in such detail. Thanks.

I do agree that you have a great dealer to represent you in the UK in Monsieur. I've bought three ESEE products from esee.co.uk in the last two weeks and the whole experience could not have been better. I'm truly grateful for Nico's kind offer re: the HEST and I thank him very much for it, although I'm going to decline it.

As Nico would tell you, I was an enthusiastic advocate of ESEE so obviously I'm still disappointed about your decision, but I'll say no more about it. I only posted in the first place to let you to know how an ESEE fan on a low income like myself felt about being excluded from the comps, and I appreciate that you listened and responded.

Peace out
 
Redeye said:
Although I disagree with the policy, I do respect and appreciate that you've taken the time to answer, especially in such detail. Thanks.

I do agree that you have a great dealer to represent you in the UK in Monsieur. I've bought three ESEE products from esee.co.uk in the last two weeks and the whole experience could not have been better. I'm truly grateful for Nico's kind offer re: the HEST and I thank him very much for it, although I'm going to decline it.

As Nico would tell you, I was an enthusiastic advocate of ESEE so obviously I'm still disappointed about your decision, but I'll say no more about it. I only posted in the first place to let you to know how an ESEE fan on a low income like myself felt about being excluded from the comps, and I appreciate that you listened and responded.

Peace out
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No problem. We appreciate you being here. Most important we appreciate you being part of the knife community as a whole, not just the ESEE community. As is pretty obvious on our forum, we welcome any and all knife users and survival types, regardless if they own one of our products or not. I am sorry that you feel ESEE has let you down.
 
I don't know why it's only for gold members and higher now. Wouldn't just having to pay membership for all those accounts dissuade people from doing it? Even if it's just basic $10 an account is still kinda high. You'd be making 9 accounts for $90 to win a $90 knife.
 
You know, I'm through with this thread. It has been explained several times and no sense in going into it any more. The rules are the rules.
 
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