New Cooper Cutlery knives?

Thank you for taking the time to post pics, and weigh in with your experiences. Whatever the problem, bad machinery, bad Q.C., it will obviously need resolving if they expect people to part with that kind of money. I was led to believe from other sources that these were going to be some high quality knives, and Im glad I wasnt suckered in. Thats not to say that someday they wont be, but at least for now my wallet stays shut. And Case can breathe easy for now I guess :)
 
Question concerning the tooling ...
Is it possible that because of "historical significance" the old to ancient Queen machinery/tooling sold at the auction for more than a comparable and updated/upgraded new machine would cost?

I can understand, in a way, Mr. Cooper wanting the old Queen machines. How many times have I read on here that one reason folks think the Taylor and now BTI Schrade products are "not a "real" Schrade and is inferior because they are not made with the old worn out Schrade tooling and by the same people"? (I'd guess at least a few hundred times.)
Perhaps "We're using the same machinery!" he sees as a soultion to "Schatt & Morgan in name only" syndrome?
Isn't Schatt & Morgan "name only" under Cooper Cutlery, regardless of how well ... or not they do?

The "new" Schatt & Morgan, has nothing to do with the old, tooling not withstanding.

"Schatt & Morgan" for all practical purposes, is a new company. Everything the old company by the same name did or didn't did, is irrelevant now. The company is on square one. I hope they can and do advance.

Mr. Cooper should look a the other companies that went after a piece of GEC's pie and went under, Including, but not limited to Canal Street Cutlery, and the Old Queen/S & M.
Figure out what they did right, and what they did wrong. Lean from their mistakes.

I don't know what they did wrong. However, I don know at least one thing they did right: Their product for the most part at least matched the quality of GEC.
(tho I think Queen would have gained points if they had put a useable edge on the blade(s) at the factory. The "People want to put their own edge on for the type of work they do!" pass that some gave Queen is dumb. Even back in the day, people wanted a usable knife out of the box, they didn't have to sharpen before using it.)

Cooper's S&M has yet to equal - let alone exceed the quality of a over-priced $1.50 no name Pakistan or India gas station/truck stop special. Then to add insult to injury, charge more than a GEC for it?!?

At this rate, the new S&M is a joke ... a BAD joke.
Unless Cooper Cutlery gets serious, this "revival" of the S&M isn't going to last as long as a snowflake in hell.

If you are reading this, Mr. Cooper, a brand name alone does not make it valuable, nor collectable.
(If an agent of Mr. Cooper is reading this, you might want to pass that nugget of common sense on to him.)
 
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someone related to the new company has been on another forum. even offered to help get a replacement knife someone purchased that had a bad spot on the handle. some comments on material and parts coming from overseas has got a few people debating what exactly is going on. some even saying the knives look Frost-like. almost seems like a smokescreen. kind of like how people that don't know better, end up with the overseas Boker's. functional - yes. worth the money - heck no
 
mightyzaa said:
kind of like how people that don't know better, end up with the overseas Boker's. functional - yes. worth the money - heck no
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I wouldn't complain about a Solingen, Germany offshore Böker, myself ... at least not if a size, pattern I like, and would carry and use. 😷
 
afishhunter said:
I wouldn't complain about a Solingen, Germany offshore Böker, myself ... at least not if a size, pattern I like, and would carry and use. 😷
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I believe the original post was referring to the cheaper Chinese Bokers. Sounded like imported parts with assemblage in Ohio. When you read the company write up, its a bit cryptic. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but possibly misleading and really should be cleared up especially at the price point of these knives.
 
Matt_WY said:
I believe the original post was referring to the cheaper Chinese Bokers. Sounded like imported parts with assemblage in Ohio. When you read the company write up, its a bit cryptic. Not necessarily a deal breaker, but possibly misleading and really should be cleared up especially at the price point of these knives.
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exactly what i was trying to convey. boker is a fave. the "made in germany" ones are just overseas parts put together in germany. the worst thing about weed is that the pricing is all over the place. that is not fair to the consumer on an unknown product. lots of people have been taken for way more money. all because they haven't shopped around. like they are being flipped already. weed should have set the price. i know i would be upset if i paid $45 more than the next store had them for. in some cases, $100 more.
 
mightyzaa said:
someone related to the new company has been on another forum. even offered to help get a replacement knife someone purchased that had a bad spot on the handle. some comments on material and parts coming from overseas has got a few people debating what exactly is going on. some even saying the knives look Frost-like. almost seems like a smokescreen. kind of like how people that don't know better, end up with the overseas Boker's. functional - yes. worth the money - heck no
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I've seen some of these, and there is something that always bugged me -
I've seen a lot of Queen and S&M knives, but which of the old tooling was used to make these new knives? I've never seen any Queen made knives that look like them. The overall appearance has a German look.....
These were made by Olbertz. Look familiar?
RczbDve.jpg
 
knifeswapper said:
I think maybe it was meant as "YOU have no right to charge for nostalgia" as in - just because someone else did it right, does not mean you inherited that right in your premium pricing.
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Absolutely :thumbsup: Thanks.

Free-riding on perceived heritage, thinking it allows you to charge a high price if the product doesn't cut it (literally..)

That sunk spring on closed detonates my roar-box. it not only looks bad and shoddy but it is bad :thumbsdown: But traditional knives are like that aren't they, it's the magic of nostalgia..:confused:

It appears this new version of Schatt has had a fairly lengthy gestation, time enough to get things sorted. You'd think they would want to release only very well finished knives especially if they're aiming at the GEC market and pricing.

Everybody here welcomes the idea of a new maker of Traditional knives, all of us want it to go well but it can only go well if the product has substance. Money can be hard to come by for most of us so the knife has to measure up not rely on marketing verbiage.
 
Will power, well said. I think some pride in workmanship is whats needed here, but I dont know. Thats at least partially what made those beautiful old slipjoints what they are. And with shady or deceptive business practices becoming normal, those old knives become more valuable every day in my opinion.
 
I'm getting old or something.

Another old knife brand sold to some guys who are making inferior knives, trying to 'cash in' on name recognition in a business that is dwindling in size and stature. They've further diminished their standing by choosing to (nudge-nudge, wink-wink) associate themselves with an immature marketing ploy that seems as pointless as it is puerile.

Their 'right' to do this, charge whatever they want, or embarrass themselves is absolute. Nobody has to support them. They're not obligated to give a hang about our sensibilities.
 
mightyzaa said:
I know i would be upset if i paid $45 more than the next store had them for. in some cases, $100 more.
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That's one "advantage" of being a cheap S.O.B that won't spend more than $30 ~ $40 on a knife. (any more than that only for a SFO Buck 110 - a known product.)
They priced them WAY out of my price range right out the gate.
Even if they hadn't, from what I've seen of them here, and that weed shield ... Even at $5, I would take a hard pass, anyway.

"Imported Parts" could cover bone and Stag/Horn covers. I think I read somewhere most the bovine bone covers used by the now two manufacturers in Titusville, PA, come from Argentina. Just like the leather used for domestic cars, (and "Japanese" and "German" brand cars made in the US) auto interiors comes from Argentina. (I have no idea why they can't/don't use North American/USA bovine bone and leather. Canada and the US both have a beef industry ...)
Camel bone, MOP, Abolone, Ebony, Teak and other exotic wood and sea citter covers come from elsewhere too, since they don't grow here.

Thinking about it, just because they HAVE the old Queen tooling, doesn't necessarily mean they're USING it.
For that matter, are they even set up to do in-house heat treat, or is that being farmed out?

Maybe they are importing mystery steel rebranded Frost blades, springs, liners and bolsters. We'll never know, short of a chemical anililis, and you know how likely that is. You know Cooper Cutlery isn't going to come clean on that, any more than Al Baldwin is going to come clean. I suspect it is more likely Al will come clean ...

Someone above mentioned the weed shield was suitable for a head shop. I wonder if that is were they expect most of them to be sold?
 
If they are going to Depend on the Assemblers of the knives to Inspect them , they obviously have not properly trained them as to what is Acceptable . It would appear that they may only know about whether the knife works or not . I do not recall anyone saying that they Did Not Work . I am not sure that the Head Muckety Muck even knows what we deem as an Acceptable Knife for the price point . To me the Shield is an Eye Sore . The Bone Jigging looks pretty much buffed away . I hope that the new venture is a success , but I think that it looks to be on shaky ground at this point . Until the Owner and everyone down the line knows what we customers expect at this price point , they will continue to put out un-acceptable product for us . Old Machines will make good product if it had been capable when it was new and has been properly maintained . But the Machines do not put the parts together either .
I have seen No Reason to buy any of their product yet at even half their prices .

Harry
 
mbkr said:
I'm sure this will a real "duh!" moment for me, but who's the second one?
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GEC and Case/Zippo (or is it properly "Zippo/Case"?) Pretty sure I am that both are in that town.
 
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