New custom knife came bent to the right?

Robert Dark said:
One of the hardest things to figure out is "Where do I stand" in the knife-making market. I still struggle with this on a daily basis. Many of my "peers" say that I under-price my work, however, it seems that if I try to "BUMP" my prices to a reasonable level, the potential customer has a tendency to say "Nope, ain't gonna spend that much money for a knife from an unknown maker".

My best customers are repeat customers. Once they get one of my knives, they seem to be happy and order more



Robert
Click to expand...

Couldent have said it better myself..Seems like you have deal with the same issues we do..
 
Already found the site too. Check out the spine on "D2-103". Yikes!

Anyone who says their knives are "We hand honed each blade to ensure proper fit and finish" already has a red flag raised.
 
I agree, not acceptable. I freely admit to making knives that do that. They're still here and get used as beaters or reminders to pay more attention. Not many these days but for the first year it wasn't uncommon for me to have an off angle grind on double bevel knives. That's one reason I did a lot of chisel grinds. I could focus on the quality grind and produce a better final product that way while I got grinder time to improve my skills.
I also admit to sending out less than perfect knives. I just make sure the buyer is fully aware of the flaws and that they are notsomething I'm unwilling to put my mark on. Usually purely cosmetic finish stuff where after a few real uses it won't matter anyway.

I'm one of the newer makers struggling with pricing. If I price higher I get no buyers still. If I price lower it's not fair to other makers or myself. Right now I'm trying to find a middle ground and improve my quality and reputation so I can demand higher prices and still sell reliably. To that end I'm actually backing away from fancier handle materials and focusing on micarta and G10. Mosaic for many, but not all, just as an added touch of style. The synthetics require FAR less time to finish nicely. Even more than the materials cost, the time is important.
 
fumbler said:
I think customers have the right to expect a straight knife; maybe not perfectly even grinds if it's a cheap knife, but a knife bent at the ricasso is unacceptable. The only way a consumer should receive a knife like this is if it's sold as a second.
Click to expand...

agreed.... but the maker should have never even had a knife like that as a second, as this knife should have never made it to finish grind, let alone a handle being fashioned for it..!!

every maker should have a slab of granite to insure scales and knife are plane.... besides the granite makes for an awesome work space for leather...
 
Battle Creek Knives said:
agreed.... but the maker should have never even had a knife like that as a second, as this knife should have never made it to finish grind, let alone a handle being fashioned for it..!!

every maker should have a slab of granite to insure scales and knife are plane.... besides the granite makes for an awesome work space for leather...
Click to expand...
I agree with you, it's a waste of time finishing a knife like that without straightening it.
I guess what I mean is any knife could be sold as long as there's full disclosure. I personally wouldn't sell one that defective, lol.
 
Pricing is something I know I struggle with. Just when I sell a few knives at a decent price and think I'm on a roll, then I end up slow for a while till I drop my prices a little. It sucks. ESP when your full time and trying to pay the bills. Persistence pays off tho guys and I'm sure we will all have success as long as we don't sell bent knives! ;)
 
A bent blade is about a useful as a bent rifle barrel,hope you get a swift refund or replacement.
 
I don't know, looking around that site, those knives look quite a bit like blanks put together all blocky... filework notwithstanding. And, you can get dammy and D2 blade blanks with filework built in.

That site is brand new, with not a lot of info at all about the maker(s) or processes involved, and as mentioned above, "stainless 440" is a red flag, and another reason I lean toward thinking that those are pre-ground blades.

Ok the maker responded and said he had "missed" that before sending it out. He said for me to send it back so he can replace it "if he has another one"?
Click to expand...
Well, if this maker grinds and HT's the blades himself, why does he need to "have another one?" Why not just make another?

Originally I asked how his heat treat was as the blade I received is D2, he said "mine are furnace treated and end up with a 60 rating on the HRC".
Click to expand...

Kinda sounds like avoidance... he doesn't say "I furnace treat them" but "mine are furnace treated." By who? He also does not specifically say that he tested the hardness himself...

If you look at several of those knives, the guards are these clunky affairs without much finish shaping, awkward lines, and sharp edges where you wouldn't want them- kind of like kit guards, or finish-your-own-guards supplied together with blades.

Actually, the lack of refinement in the treatment of fittings and handles makes me wonder if the "maker" would be sufficiently skilled to get grind lines and clips as straight as some of those on the blades...

I could be wrong, I know I've been wrong about plenty of things before... I'll eat my words if proven wrong. And, I'm not trying to be mean or hasty here, or pile on with everyone else, it's just that after looking around that site and thinking a bit I find myself a little irate.

Oh, and if "each sheath is handmade to fit the knife" like the site says, I'll be a monkey's uncle. Many of the ones pictured are the same sheaths as each other, and look to be poor quality factory work.

It's www.coloradoknife.com, by the way. I don't think this was an issue with a "custom" knife at all.
 
Last edited:
Pricing your work is one thing that is very hard to do. I think it is the most valuable thing we do for our apprentices here. I'm not argueing against the new maker that is selling knives for $100 - $150. Thats where I started too. But if you have stabalized burl, on a very nicely made knife for $150, then you can see that you have undercut not only everyone at the $150 range, but everyone up to the proper price of the knife.

That one knife a week guy might not sound like he could hurt the market. Consider though what happens if he sets up next to you at a show. You're selling your best effort for $150 and he is selling a knife with 3x the material costs and more knifemaking experience in it for the same price. At one knife a week it would be pretty easy to put 20 knives on a show table. Then, you can see it hurts a guy trying to make an honest wage.

Also, somewhere above this post someone mentioned lowering prices. I advise against this. Never lower your prices. When I went into the AG Russell catalog he brought up each instance where I had lowered my price on a piece, or on a model. Dealers are a key part of a full time makers business plan (or should be), and you can't work with dealers and lower your prices. So, avoid doing this at all costs. And, get a dealer to work with, so you can sell knives that are building up in stock.
 
Another point about the knives on that site is tha several of the D2 blades are actually the exact same as the stainless blades. Not just the same design, but literally the exact same knife. Seems pretty fishy, and that Damascus looks a lot like the Pakistan dammy with factory file work that is all over eBay and swap meets
 
Fiddleback said:
Pricing your work is one thing that is very hard to do. I think it is the most valuable thing we do for our apprentices here. I'm not argueing against the new maker that is selling knives for $100 - $150. Thats where I started too. But if you have stabalized burl, on a very nicely made knife for $150, then you can see that you have undercut not only everyone at the $150 range, but everyone up to the proper price of the knife.
Click to expand...

But it seems not a lot of people would want to pay $250 for a 4 inch hunter with a nice stablized burl handle from a maker that doesn't have name recognition yet. I'm trying to figure out how to sell knives so I'm not spending my bread money on my hobby. I'm even thinking of pricing per inch kind of like Tai Goo does. Not sure yet....lots of variables to factor in.
 
Shaw Blades said:
. I'm even thinking of pricing per inch kind of like Tai Goo does. Not sure yet....lots of variables to factor in.
Click to expand...

per inch is strictly business and I was advised and had read multiple times many makers do this when starting out... I know my prices are 'reasonable' at best but I've learned there is no way I could make a living doing it this way, and I'll agree with Fiddleback and I may have played a small part myself in drumming down prices, I spend a lot of time making the sharp pointy things I find myself calling a knife, failed in comparison to most of you here.. I just sold a couple knives for wedding gifts and had to upcharge $50 on one and $35 on the other just to cover the burl wood expense... the little experience I have in this business I can see where full time makers get pissed over others using similar materials and just trying to 'recoop' their costs to support their 'hobby'....

my prices have just gone up 15% by writing this post...:) seriously...
 
I can understand being pissed at the whole situation but not at individuals themselves for doing this. How can you blame them for trying to support their hobby, something that makes them happy and for some, even something that keeps them sane when things aren't going that great? What are they suppose to do, ask for prices they know they won't be able to command because of their "unknown" status? Or stop selling altogether and then not having the funds to continue? Of course I am not talking about individuals that would do this on purpose for some kind marketing ploy. But what about good honest hobby makers doing what they love?
 
Fiddleback said:
Pricing your work is one thing that is very hard to do. I think it is the most valuable thing we do for our apprentices here. I'm not argueing against the new maker that is selling knives for $100 - $150. Thats where I started too. But if you have stabalized burl, on a very nicely made knife for $150, then you can see that you have undercut not only everyone at the $150 range, but everyone up to the proper price of the knife.

That one knife a week guy might not sound like he could hurt the market. Consider though what happens if he sets up next to you at a show. You're selling your best effort for $150 and he is selling a knife with 3x the material costs and more knifemaking experience in it for the same price. At one knife a week it would be pretty easy to put 20 knives on a show table. Then, you can see it hurts a guy trying to make an honest wage.

Also, somewhere above this post someone mentioned lowering prices. I advise against this. Never lower your prices. When I went into the AG Russell catalog he brought up each instance where I had lowered my price on a piece, or on a model. Dealers are a key part of a full time makers business plan (or should be), and you can't work with dealers and lower your prices. So, avoid doing this at all costs. And, get a dealer to work with, so you can sell knives that are building up in stock.
Click to expand...


I think another issue here as that we seem to be proliferating a culture where selling your work as a new maker is "validation" that you're a *real* knifemaker, as a hobbyist. Especially in this venue, every new maker wants to start selling after their third knife, and *all* of them seem to get into it intending to be a full time maker.

No other hobby that I've ever been involved in has this phenomenon.


Hell I've been playing at this game for a few years now, and my one clear intention is to *NOT* be a full time knife maker. I like it too much to do that to myself. Having turned more than a handful of hobbies into full time jobs by happenstance, and subsequently hating them, I'm hoping to forestall that as long as possible. Am I making money off knifemaking related things? Yes absolutely. I also take a few custom orders, and make some semi-production specialty blades, but I'm certainly not in any rush to try and sell every blade I make, and hopefully never will be.


Also, this may be offensive to some, but if the only area any maker has to compete in, is price, you're doomed, and you should quit now, or come back later. You'll never win in the price war, and that's the Walmart mentality that's gotten our country and culture to where it is now. All of us should be competing on quality only, and differentiating ourselves based on design, philosophy, aesthetics, or other subjective aspects that are what define us as a maker. If not, you're missing the point of this whole exercise IMHO, and as Andy says, you're just ruining it for the rest of us.


If the only way you know how to make a better knife is to add some "Bling" to it, be it fancy pins, handle materials, file work, damascus that you likely didn't make yourself, or other embellishments, you need to take a step back and re-evaluate whether you've got something to add to this market.

Just working hard at something doesn't mean you deserve to be successful at it, sorry, that's just reality, and the entitled viewpoint that our mothers instilled in us that "if you just try your best" you'll be great, is something that we should all wipe from our sensitive little cry-baby minds.



Me? You won't see any of my pieces for sale in the Knifemaker's Market until my pieces are priced and worth well north of the average range. I'm not wasting mine, or anybody else's time with less.
 
Labor is being exploited everywhere. To some extent, this aspect of the handmade knife market is a reflection of that. No one's fault per se, but the current gestalt of the industry and world at large.

Also consider that handmade knives is a saturated market for a luxury good. Given the level of talent and enthusiasm displayed by many newer makers, it unfortunately makes sense that prices for great knives get driven downward.

It's not nearly as hard to learn how to make a great knife anymore. Anyone with a work ethic at the keyboard and in the shop, with a decent attention span, can get into this, and more do every day. To some extent, you just have to suffer for a while past the point when other talented individuals have left the craft for greener pastures.

Nothing wrong with fighting against all that, but it's an uphill battle.
 
Since this thread has gone way past where it began, I'll chime in with my opinions.

I'll admit to being one of the hobby makers that may be hurting the full time makers. I've sold over 80 knives in the past 6 months for $60. When I started doing this, I was the only one that I knew of that produced a quality knife with a good heat treat and attention to detail at a super cheap price. Now there are cheap knives all over the place and I'm sure that this has hurt the market here on BF for full time makers.

Am I ashamed of myself for bringing down prices? Absolutely not. Do I feel bad for possibly hurting full time knife makers? Not really. This is a free market. That means that your product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. Don't complain that you can't sell a knife because you have to charge an extra $50 for stabilized burl. Either find cheaper wood or use something else. Many customers don't care if the wood is stabilized by K&G, WSSI, or the guy around the corner, as long as it was properly done. Many of them don't even know what stabilized wood is. They just want something that they can show off to their friends, works better than walmart crap, and will last a lifetime. They also want to feel like they got a good deal.

For those full time knife makers who complain that the prices are too low for you to stay in business, then pick a different profession, find wealthier customers, or produce more knives at a lower price. If that means that you work for $5 an hour then so be it. If you want more money per hour then find a job at a gas station. Being in business for yourself means that you have to find your place in the market and make it work.

Just because we produce "custom knives" doesn't mean that they have to cost an arm and a leg. I have fair prices because I wouldn't ask someone to pay a price that I wouldn't pay.

Rant off. This is just my opinion so take it for what its worth.

Good post by Salem, by the way.
 
Last edited:
I think Andy's assessment of what happens with new and many hobby makers is spot on. However I think saying that it is ruining the industry is incorrect. I think that this topic is worthy of its own thread.
 
jawilder said:
Since this thread has gone way past where it began, I'll chime in with my opinions.

I'll admit to being one of the hobby makers that may be hurting the full time makers. I've sold over 80 knives in the past 6 months for $60. When I started doing this, I was the only one that I knew of that produced a quality knife with a good heat treat and attention to detail at a super cheap price. Now there are cheap knives all over the place and I'm sure that this has hurt the market here on BF for full time makers.

Am I ashamed of myself for bringing down prices? Absolutely not. Do I feel bad for possibly hurting full time knife makers? Not really. This is a free market. That means that your product is only worth what people are willing to pay for it. Don't complain that you can't sell a knife because you have to charge an extra $50 for stabilized burl. Either find cheaper wood or use something else. Many customers don't care if the wood is stabilized by K&G, WSSI, or the guy around the corner. Many of them don't even know what stabilized wood is. They just want something that they can show off to their friends, works better than walmart crap, and will last a lifetime. They also want to feel like they got a good deal.

For those full time knife makers who complain that the prices are too low for you to stay in business, then pick a different profession, find wealthier customers, or produce more knives at a lower price. If that means that you work for $5 an hour then so be it. If you want more money per hour then find a job at a gas station. Being in business for yourself means that you have to find your place in the market and make it work.

Just because we produce "custom knives" doesn't mean that they have to cost an arm and a leg. I have fair prices because I wouldn't ask someone to pay a price that I wouldn't pay.

Rant off. This is just my opinion so take it for what its worth.

Good post by Salem, by the way.
Click to expand...

Thanks. You prooved my point. This guy is hurting the knife industry. Plus, he is proud of it and I think that stinks. But hey, we can go get jobs at gas stations and kiss his ass when he comes by to get his gas. WTF???

Consumers beware, if you support this kind of business practice, you are killing the custom knife industry.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top