New GEC #85 & #66 Moose...Not so thrilled

Pjake

Pjake

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I jumped into the "Traditional" realm with great anticipation. I poured over this forum for hours upon hours and decided to take the plunge. A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Northfield #85 in burnt stag. It arrived promptly, loved the look and feel of the knife. Over the course of the next 2 days I did not have cause to use the main blade, but opened and closed it maybe a dozen times as I was watching hockey playoffs. BTW...great fit and finish.....snap at 90...snap at open...not a nail breaker ...just a grande pocket knife. While sitting there I noticed a gleam that surprised me. Got the loop out and there it was...a nick in the main blade. How could this be??? Have not used the blade yet. I lined it all up and suppose that the blade nicked the liner at the rise (terminology??). Sent blade back to GEC. Asked for confirmation of receipt..eta on return....have heard nothing (5 days now).

Just an hour ago I received a #66 Genuine Stag.....LOVE the scales...LOVE the size, profile, and outward fit and finish. Did not come with birth cert...which is a bit of a bummer (will take that up with the seller)....but I am so disappointed in the more performance oriented aspects of this knife. Main clip blade makes a soft pass at 90 degrees with marginal snap at open...my moose blade makes virtually no attempt to stop at 90 degrees with decent, but not exceptional snap at open.

Frankly, at a loss here. I have a Vic Soldier that was perfect in every way out of the box...my Chris Reeve Small Sebenza was also perfect out of the box. I really want to carry a couple of traditionals EDC. I thought GEC was the benchmark for production traditional knives. I am just not feeling the love here.

Should I give the #66 time to settle in? For the $$ paid I just think it should be good to go out of the tube, as it is. So heartbroken on this one. Opinions on GEC customer service?

On the #85, I know the blade nick has been an issue for others....should I trust that it will all be good upon it's return from GEC?

Please give me some guidance...feeling twice scorned.

Peter
 
The mark on the blade is likely "blade rub" that happened when you opened and closed the blades. Even if the mechanics of the knife are very good, blade rub can occur if you push the blade against the liner or the other blade instead of pulling the blade straight up.

The 66 pattern doesn't have half stops unlike the 85 pattern.
 
Also, if you're intending to use the knives, I'd also recommend flushing out the joints with oil... or with warm water, thoroughly drying the knife and oiling the joints and blades. It's not uncommon for some "grittiness" in the joints ... I suspect it's buffing compound.
 
im giving GEC a 2nd shot, my 1st is a #62 Northfield stag Court House Whittler. i really like the knife itself but the fit and finish was kind of poor imho for the $ (stag/bolsters are unevenly lined up, stag on pile side has a huge "trench" that is almost like a missing chunk- feels awkward). everything function wise is good though.

both of my Canal Streets smoked it in the f&f dept. im going to keep it and use it but im leery of spending another big chunk of change on one. i have a #25 wharncliffe jack (1/2 the price of the CHW) inbound so we'll wait and see if its better. im used to my Cases being hit or miss but GEC needs to tighten it up for the asking prices.


edit- also had to do some sanding on the tapered spacer between the springs to get it flush.
 
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For the #85, when closing the blade, did you let it snap closed or did you guide it closed? Either way, that nick will be sharpened out with use and will be fine. Not sure how long it will take them to send it back to you.

For the #66, does it have a serial number etched into the bolster? If not, then it wouldn't come with a COA. The #66s do not have half stops, ie snap at 90 degrees. For lazy snap opening the blade, you could try flushing out the joints as there could still be compound from the hand buffing somewhere in there.

I believe Vic's process uses machines more. The least expensive CRKs are usually more than twice the price of a pricey GEC. Have you been to the "What's Happening" page on their site? You can see in progress pics of how they work on the knives. Only one pic this week though. They update it every week on Mon/Tues.
http://greateasterncutlery.net/blog/information/whats-happening-april-30th/
 
Pjake said:
I jumped into the "Traditional" realm with great anticipation. I poured over this forum for hours upon hours and decided to take the plunge. A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Northfield #85 in burnt stag. It arrived promptly, loved the look and feel of the knife. Over the course of the next 2 days I did not have cause to use the main blade, but opened and closed it maybe a dozen times as I was watching hockey playoffs. BTW...great fit and finish.....snap at 90...snap at open...not a nail breaker ...just a grande pocket knife. While sitting there I noticed a gleam that surprised me. Got the loop out and there it was...a nick in the main blade. How could this be??? Have not used the blade yet. I lined it all up and suppose that the blade nicked the liner at the rise (terminology??). Sent blade back to GEC. Asked for confirmation of receipt..eta on return....have heard nothing (5 days now)
Just an hour ago I received a #66 Genuine Stag.....LOVE the scales...LOVE the size, profile, and outward fit and finish. Did not come with birth cert...which is a bit of a bummer (will take that up with the seller)....but I am so disappointed in the more performance oriented aspects of this knife. Main clip blade makes a soft pass at 90 degrees with marginal snap at open...my moose blade makes virtually no attempt to stop at 90 degrees with decent, but not exceptional snap at open.

Frankly, at a loss here. I have a Vic Soldier that was perfect in every way out of the box...my Chris Reeve Small Sebenza was also perfect out of the box. I really want to carry a couple of traditionals EDC. I thought GEC was the benchmark for production traditional knives. I am just not feeling the love here.

Should I give the #66 time to settle in? For the $$ paid I just think it should be good to go out of the tube, as it is. So heartbroken on this one. Opinions on GEC customer service?

On the #85, I know the blade nick has been an issue for others....should I trust that it will all be good upon it's return from GEC?

Please give me some guidance...feeling twice scorned.

Peter[/QUOTE

Peter, if you don't mind me asking; if the spring is perfectly adequate to insure the blade doesn't open in your pocket, and if the spring is well machined to hold the blade open firmly, why would you require more "snap"? Personally in the humble opinion of this old man, the "snap" thing we read about so often lately seems kind of silly from a practical point. Too"snappy" a knife is often a knife that's often a pain to open (particularly if it gets wet in the field) and a knife that's often a danger to close when you're working fast. Sounds to me like you got a good knife with a well finessed action. Congrats!
Click to expand...
 
Voodoosix, I think stag is hit or miss. I've seen some pretty sorry looking stag and I won't buy stag from GEC or anyone else unless I can see both sides of the knife and prefer to also see a photo looking down into the well and a photo looking at the springs. That way, I can get a better idea of the three dimensionality of the handles. I've seen some knives with pretty stag but realized that it was wildly uneven when looking at photos of the well and springs. I have sent back a GEC knife because the stag was wildly uneven. I think there's more consistency with other handle materials from GEC. The same goes with other manufacturers also though. When GEC gets stag right it's a beautiful thing though.
 
Thanks so much for the replies! Much appreciated. As a newby to trads, unaware that some snap and some don't. On the 66 ..... yes gritty and flushworthy sounds spot on. Is there a thread on the how to? If not I'll take to a shop. The difference in how the two blades open is pretty remarkable. But if it is what it is.... fine...

2Dead, yes.... The 66 is #29. It should have arrived with coa... Good question though!!!

Thanks again folks!

Peter
 
Peter, I'm no expert but... on a user, I fill the sink with warm water with a bit of hand soap or dish soap. I open one blade half way, immerse it in the soapy water and work the blade back and forth until the grittiness is gone. One blade at a time and be careful that your hands don't slip or you might get a nasty cut. I might also put the joint underneath running water and work the blade back and forth if the grittiness is stubborn. Then I thoroughly dry the knife, including the inside of the well, oil the joints with mineral oil and wipe the blades with a rag with a few drops of mineral oil. On difficult to open knives, I might use militec-1 on the joints (if I don't intend for the knife to be in contact with food). I clean my knives similarly and this works for me. The guys in the maintenance forum might have more advice. If the grittiness is super stubborn, you could try flushing it out with a blast of WD40.
 
Johnny1950....

thanks for your perspective!! Pjake (1954).....erhummm...me.........can appreciate the the wisdom.

Regards,
Peter
 
Pjake said:
Johnny1950....

thanks for your perspective!! Pjake (1954).....erhummm...me.........can appreciate the the wisdom.

Regards,
Peter
Click to expand...

Ha! well you're a kind man Peter. I did neglect to explain which knife I was talking about, as yes, you do seem to have a sound complaint about the first one. Good luck with them both and don't be discouraged. egards, Johnny
 
Hi Peter,

I came back into traditional slipjoints directly from CRK land. First, just don't try to compare the two :) You really can't when it comes down to it. CRK has their game down pat and serious manufacturing tolerances. Prices to match too.

So when you get out of the CRK vs GEC thing and you start looking directly at what you get with GEC it may make more sense. Then again, you may still prefer CRK. I won't make excuses for GEC in any way. I bought 85's for myself and my father. Both got the ding. Yeah, it bugged me, but mine is now gone after sharpening and my dad just uses his. You know, your only out about 1mm of blade until it sharpens out :)

Anyhow, most all GEC's will come with buffing compound in the joints. After doing some work myself on polishing bolsters I see it is inevitable no matter how hard you try. Don't fret, a simple cleaning and a good oil will fix it right up in most cases. Sometimes a joint could be too tight and binding. Anyhow, GEC makes nice knives that are highly hand made and finished. The allure of GEC has less to do with tolerances and perfection to me. Its about that 85 that I have now, Its been dropped, I have sanded everything flush, peened the pivot and refinished the boltsers. Sharpen the blade by hand on a stone. IDK, I just prefer it over my CRK's. Now, I have a knife I can do anything with, keep sharp easily and work on if I drop it again.

You are not so thrilled, and guess what, I have been there a long my ride as well. Almost in the same spot as you actually.

Here is a shot of my 85 I just took today.

KRG_0314.jpg


Its my beater, and my Regular Sebenzas can't kick it out of my pocket. That urge is usually caused by another slipjoint, custom, Case/Bose collab and etcetera.

I think you will enjoy it once you get to using them. Maybe not though.

Its all good IMO. BTW, from the sounds of it you prefer half stops. I do too for the most part but my most recent 57 whittler is really giving half stops a run for their money.

USA.jpg


Kevin
 
Thanks Kevin,

Your thoughts, empathy, and perspective are appreciated .... As well as the thoughtfulness of your reply. Learning so much here. I need to do a little oiling on the 66. Everything else is near perfection from the feedback I am seeing here. The 85, now residing in PA, will hopefully be home soon. I fully anticipate the 85, 66, small sebenza and the spyderco delica ZDP to carry me going forward.... 1 Trad, 1 contemporary each day (bag and on person carry).

Thanks again!
Peter
 
Your very welcome Peter :)

For food safe apps I use mineral oil and for non food safe I have done extensive testing of about 20 lubes. The winner is a Bel-Ray motorcycle chain lube with 'molyphos' by far. It can make a joint that binds with any other oil turn into a ball bearing. It also has extreme staying power and its water proof. I have tried all the typical CLP and Rem oil kind of stuff and my dad has been in the lube industry for about 45 years so he gave me a ton to try when I was playing around. Mineral oil will work just fine too.

Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your combo. Thats what its all about IMHO.

Kevin
 
Here is what it looks like in case you get by a motorcycle shop and want to give it a try. Remember its NOT food safe. I also tried about 5 other chain lubes, one of which was also Bel-Ray and this was the best.

44-3012.jpg

stock photo
 
I' will be opting for the mineral oil...


Thanks again Kevin and everyone!!

Peter
 
I'm not speaking for the factory, but let me try to address some of your specific concerns.

1) The factory has a process for returns and do not often alter it to customer specific requests for confirmations, etc. They do not get enough returns to justify a repair "department" (like the the maytag guy), so they use lulls in the production line to knock out repairs. It takes a couple weeks sometimes, but as for US slipjoints - that is pretty fast. If you need confirmation of receipt you might try delivery confirmation; otherwise their phone number is posted on their site.

2) A "rapping" blade is fairly common as they try and give the customer as much steel as possible on a new knife. Many other makers avoid the problem by removing stock before finishing. Have you seen a Case gunstock or 88 congress lately? It doesn't show up most times in final inspection, thus for collectors that do not want to sharpen it out this seems to be a respectively common return issue.

3) Genuine Stag have the COA on the tube (not in it).

4) #66 does not have half stops and they have tried to soften the springs somewhat on the smaller knives due to complaints.

5) Stag is a very personal preference and have many shapes / sizes. Bone / Wood is more consistent.

Some responses have already addressed a couple of these, but thought I would put them together. Hope that helps.
 
Yep, that about covers it knifeswapper and a few others have it covered.

GEC is good. IMvHO they are very, very good. But they aren't perfect. I have a couple GEC knives that have serious problems. I also have some absolutely wonderful examples of craftsmanship from them. The little 2nd cut stag conductor that has been put together too tightly broke my heart. It is so tight the springs are practically disabled... I'd send it back but I'm afraid they would not be willing to space it correctly and refinish the bolsters.

I do hope you get all the problems taken care of to your satisfaction. I'd guess that little 66 Bullwinkle will grow on you quickly if you decide to carry it. It is a wonderful concept and I love mine. All of them. :p

Will
 
knifeswapper said:
I'm not speaking for the factory, but let me try to address some of your specific concerns.

1) The factory has a process for returns and do not often alter it to customer specific requests for confirmations, etc. They do not get enough returns to justify a repair "department" (like the the maytag guy), so they use lulls in the production line to knock out repairs. It takes a couple weeks sometimes, but as for US slipjoints - that is pretty fast. If you need confirmation of receipt you might try delivery confirmation; otherwise their phone number is posted on their site.

2) A "rapping" blade is fairly common as they try and give the customer as much steel as possible on a new knife. Many other makers avoid the problem by removing stock before finishing. Have you seen a Case gunstock or 88 congress lately? It doesn't show up most times in final inspection, thus for collectors that do not want to sharpen it out this seems to be a respectively common return issue.

3) Genuine Stag have the COA on the tube (not in it).

4) #66 does not have half stops and they have tried to soften the springs somewhat on the smaller knives due to complaints.

5) Stag is a very personal preference and have many shapes / sizes. Bone / Wood is more consistent.

Some responses have already addressed a couple of these, but thought I would put them together. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

They are some of the nicest, most honest and understanding folks I have dealt with. I have only sent one knife back, but when I did it was worth the wait.

On a side note, I have a drawer full of, IMO, perfectly executed GEC knives. So my comments are not to take away from the company. They are only to be honest and open on this issue. But just like giving the bad with the good, I figure I should give the good with the bad for this conversation.

Kevin
 
I've had my own issues with GEC's but have always been hesitant to bring em up on any of the knife forums due to an anticipated chit storm from their almost cult like following, but I'm pleased to see the civil demeaner on this thread. VERY Refreshing!

I still won't go an internet bashing of GEC (or any other manufacturer) but I will say that after buying four of their knives and dealing with thier repair "service", I won't be buying any more.
IMO, GEC makes a pretty nice knife, but I think they're geared more towards the collector than a user (like myself).
In the same price range, I prefer NorthWoods and/or Canal Street but that's just me, and fortunatly we still have several choices of good ol US made pocket knives to satisfy all of our different wants/needs.
Good luck with your GEC's and their repair shop.
Charlie
 
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