New GEC #85 & #66 Moose...Not so thrilled

MyDogsHunt said:
I've had my own issues with GEC's but have always been hesitant to bring em up on any of the knife forums due to an anticipated chit storm from their almost cult like following, but I'm pleased to see the civil demeaner on this thread. VERY Refreshing!

I still won't go an internet bashing of GEC (or any other manufacturer) but I will say that after buying four of their knives and dealing with thier repair "service", I won't be buying any more.
IMO, GEC makes a pretty nice knife, but I think they're geared more towards the collector than a user (like myself).
In the same price range, I prefer NorthWoods and/or Canal Street but that's just me, and fortunatly we still have several choices of good ol US made pocket knives to satisfy all of our different wants/needs.
Good luck with your GEC's and their repair shop.
Charlie
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Hi Charlie,

I think its refreshing too. Thats part of what I like about the traditional section. A lot of guys and gals that tell it like it is. I think its more comments like you made that might get people to seem like fanboys. When someone points out specific traits that they just don't like, that is easy to take and there really should be no backlash. What I am getting at is that I feel a statement like you have given should be accompanied with reasoning. Not only because it doesn't raise so many questions and possibly wrong conclusions, but maybe someone might just learn something from your experience?

Im not trying to call you out, but you said you have been hesitant and IMO, there is no need. Bashing is one thing, sharing your experiences is another.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Well OK, but in an effort not to jack the OP's thread, I'll try to be brief.
Of the four GEC's I bought, I sold two multiple bladed knives because "IMO" they were impossible to grip properly during hard use because of the positioning of the blade that wasn't in use.
The two single blade knives that I've kept are much more ergonomic but they both have their issues where function is concerned. As far as form goes though, they're great.
Again, "that's just me" and the next guy who uses em differently might like em fine.
The alleged "CS" is another story, but like you, I don't like bashing a company that's not there to defend themselves either (reguardless of the product) so I'll leave it at that..

PS,,, I stole this from another forum, but it's a good example of what internet bashing leads to. ;)


internetargue-1.jpg


Charlie
 
supratentorial said:
Charlie, Which 4 patterns did you try? Reviews with photos and explanations might be helpful to others.
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Well,,,, I'd elaborate, but I just got a warning from admin. that I've broken some unspecified rule so I'm afraid to say.

Sorry to all that I've offended. :confused:
I'm out.
Charlie
 
Seems like this is a pretty well worn discussion. While no one can do much about the personal preference of design-to-function as perceived by the individual user, I think a realistic assessment of quality does belong here. If not here, where? I think an honest, open, frank discussion of product (let's face it, until we assign the romantic legacy to a piece it's just a pile of parts) is healthy. I don't like bashing, but on the other hand I don't like feeling like I got less than I paid for, either.

Different vendors see these issues differently as well. Some seem to think that you should expect to get your new knife into shape yourself and not be a baby about things. And one vendor in particular that I have dealt with will not stop at anything other than (realistic) customer satisfaction. I have personal experience with two guys that show up here on occasion (Hey Mike!) that are concerned with their customers and products.

Two things I have learned from my last few years of knife buying.

1) Don't buy from a vendor that isn't a knife guy, one that won't stand 100% by their product. By doing this, I have had to return only 1 in 18 or so of the last knives I purchased. If they intend to stand by their product, they usually do their own quality control up front to reduce hassles and protect their reputation

2) If you are buying a "dream knife" or "grail knife" only buy what you can see and touch in person. Some vendors see so much bad product that they have reset their quality control levels down to lesser level than we would like. Since many of the folks getting into knives these days are younger than many of us, they don't remember the days of buying a knife from the sporting goods store that was flawless by design and manufacture. They don't really think that much of a slightly rubbing blade, gapped scales, poor grinds ("what's that?" they ask), poor snap, lazy blades, etc.

20 years ago, no one I know would have suggested that you tune up your new knife in the hope that it would get to acceptable operating standards. And 35 years ago, I bought CASE knives, and the only thing I looked at was the color of the scales - never had a thought about fit/finish/function. Now we crow like a rooster when we get "a good one" that is well made.

The point is, things have changed a lot. But you can still buy the knives you want and enjoy the hell out of them for decades to come. Just buy wisely from people you trust. I have carried traditional style knives for almost 50 years, and never go a day without one in my pocket. I certainly won't quit buying them; I have just modified my expectations and buy carefully.

Robert
 
MyDogsHunt said:
Well,,,, I'd elaborate, but I just got a warning from admin. that I've broken some unspecified rule so I'm afraid to say.

Sorry to all that I've offended. :confused:
I'm out.
Charlie
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Well I'm not sure what rule that was. Although I've been a member for a long time I only lurked for years... which is to say I don't know the ins and outs of the forum too well. But you seemed respectful and your posts were experience/fact based so maybe it was something else that the moderators disliked.

One thing I'll say, you are right in that we have some wonderful options nowadays for American made knives. Great Eastern, Northwoods and Canal Street on top of the longstanding companies we all know and love? It's a good time for those of us who love a great pocket knife.

Will
 
MyDogsHunt said:
Well,,,, I'd elaborate, but I just got a warning from admin. that I've broken some unspecified rule so I'm afraid to say.

Sorry to all that I've offended. :confused:
I'm out.
Charlie
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To clear this up. The infraction, which was reversed, was for a post in another thread.
If you have any questions Charlie please feel free to PM me.
 
Well Hello to all...

Thanks for all the great responses and perspectives. I admittedly, am a bit green on top quality traditional knives. After assurances earlier in the thread, I carried my #66 Moose loud and proud today. Actually got to use it 4x at work....and loved every stinck'n minute of it!!! Opening RAM kits, a letter, a box, and apple & cheese...loved it. Now that Kevin, in particular has leveled my expectations and educated me....I am a happy camper. I did, btw, resolve the birth cert issue I thought I had....again education is key. Love the #66!!

Knifeswapper....thanks for your input!

As for the #85....I did receive confirmation from Christine that the knife is in cue for repair....... so we're all good.

Great forum...and an excellent sub-forum.....

I will say this.....2 more GEC knives (a Barlow clip in genuine stag, and a #72 in the darkest baddest stag)...and I am out...............well maybe a Mnandi in Mammoth....too

thanks,
Peter
 
Peregrin said:
To clear this up. The infraction, which was reversed, was for a post in another thread.
If you have any questions Charlie please feel free to PM me.
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Thanks for the clarification Gary.
What ever I did, I promice not to do it again. ;>)
Charlie
 
Pjake said:
Northfield #85 in burnt stag. ........opened and closed it maybe a dozen times as I was watching hockey playoffs. ...there it was...a nick in the main blade. How could this be??? Have not used the blade yet.

#66 Genuine Stag..... with decent, but not exceptional snap at open.

Peter
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Sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope GEC will make it right to your satisfaction. I've got a 66 moose that has better than sufficient snap, though I will say it's not as stiff as I'm used to with larger GEC patterns. FWIW, I don't know of any GEC distributors that don't have a return policy, should you decide to go that route. If you really want a stout and hard "snapping" moose take a look at the GEC 54 Moose. Bigger knife, but I think I like it better than the 66.

DrPenguin said:
The little 2nd cut stag conductor that has been put together too tightly broke my heart. It is so tight the springs are practically disabled... I'd send it back but I'm afraid they would not be willing to space it correctly and refinish the bolsters.

Will
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I've got the same knife with the same problem, Will. Weird, as I've got several other Conductors that are fine. The pen blade on mine, especially, has little to no closing snap. I've flushed it with WD40 multiple times, but nothing has seemed to help. It's one of about 3 GECs that I've received with minor, though easily fixable, issues or problems. I intend to send those three back to GEC soon for repair, but I'm in no hurry to do so. I feel pretty confident they'll be able to work out the bugs.
 
If you send them back let me know how it turns out buddy and I'll do the same. It is a wonderful knife and deserves to be carried if I can get it in shape. 2nd cut stag is my one true weak point as a collector... I don't have many of them but I have to turn my head lots of times to avoid an instant buy signal. :-)

Will
 
Well, I'm glad to see that the Moose is doing well for you. I know it's a great pattern and one that can be enjoyed for a long time.

As stated before, knives aren't perfect all the time and thats because they are made by people, by hand. They are crafted with so much human interaction it can be hard to get a flawless knife every time. I have knives that need to head back to GEC, to Queen and a few to Case, I except that because I know, not everything is going to be perfect every time. Yeah, it stink having to send back a brand new knife that you didn't even get to fully enjoy, but sometimes thats what we have to do. I just got a #85 myself, it's my first of this pattern, but it has the ding in the blade too, or rapping, whichever you prefer.

It's not going back to the factory though, I'll just use it and sharpen it down until there is no spring contact.
I used to look at knives and think, why aren't you perfect? Then I got to thinking, even my best knives, almost custom in quality knives aren't 100% flawless.

I enjoy traditional knives for what they are, they aren't supposed to be the newest or best. They aren't made for abusing in the wilderness or anything like that, they are made for just doing a simple job. They do many jobs very well and I have never been left wanting with only a traditional pocket knife in my hand.

I like GEC best, but I like the hands on approach they have. They are a new company doing it the old way, while Case is an old company doing it the new way. I like to see the old techniques being brought fourth once again.

Good Luck and enjoy
 
johnny twoshoes said:
I like GEC best, but I like the hands on approach they have. They are a new company doing it the old way, while Case is an old company doing it the new way. I like to see the old techniques being brought fourth once again.
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While I agree with you that GEC is making some VERY nice traditional knives, I'm gonna slip into my flame suit and say that a little QC might go a long way.
Now my experience with GEC only consists of four knives, but of those four, two were fine even though I didn't like the ergonomics and traded em. The other two had issues that anyone with the slightest knowlege of folders would see right off. (One was a lock back that wobbled like a Chinese knock off which I sent in for repairs and the other has a spring that's so strong it's actually dangerous if ya don't know the knife.) And that (IMO)brings us back to QC.
Again "this is only four knives", but still, 50% of that sampling had issues that QC should have easily picked up on.
I think allot of today's manufacturers (presumably for the sake of cost cutting) have slacked off on QC, instead letting the consumer do it for em and then bragging about how great their CS is. (American firearms manufacturers are a great example of this IMO).
In my mind, THAT is the "new" way of doing things.

As far as Case goes, I only own one old Case so I can't/won't comment, but I can say that the three Canal Street knives that I've bought were drama free.
I just ordered another CSC a few minutes ago, so I'll report back (with foot in mouth :o ) if there are any issues.

JMO
Charlie

PS,,,, I'm not trying to defame GEC in any way and would hate to see any US knife maker struggle or go out of buisness. I just think they need to step up their QC.
 
Thanks Charlie, look forward to hearing about the new knives.

One thing I have noticed about different knife companies is, as I have stated before, that they seem to have certain quality problems that are more common to each one. And that certain of their models have recurrent problems. I absolutely love Queen knives and have gravitated toward GEC as an outgrowth of them. Funny thing is that two of the problems that I came to see as very 'Queen like' disappeared on the GEC knives. I've yet to see one with loose handles or major gaps in the liners. But they do seem to have a problem with getting the pull right on more than their share of knives, something the Queens I have had and been exposed to almost never had. Other companies have different recurring problems. I could name them but I won't.

Point is that right or wrong we come to expect these glitches in our knives as we get exposed to them often enough. Pjake, the original poster, came to these types of knives with a fresh outlook and noticed a couple of these glitches right away. Maybe you are right, maybe it is the way business is done nowadays. Some seem to be better at QC than others.

Will
 
At present GEC makes about 2 dozen patterns and some of the issues brought up may only affect certain patterns. I don't find the Remington style hunters particularly appealing but I've been tempted by a couple. Because of negative feedback that I've read on this forum about very strong pulls on this pattern, I've stayed away from them. I think honest and fair feedback on the knives is important. Atleast, I have found it helpful. Let's face it, you could buy a mint vintage knife for the price of some GEC knives. In this price range, the knife should be very high quality.

My own experience with GEC is limited to a few patterns (66, 85, 56, 33, 68) and several examples of four of the patterns (66, 85, 56, 33). I've had a few minor issues but overall my experience has been very positive.

On two knives, the tips of the blades were above the liners. This was easily fixed. I have experienced similar problems with new knives from other manufacturers, including Canal Street Cutlery, Case and Queen.
proud_pen_blade.jpg


On my 66 stock knives, the sheepfoot blade has a very very slight wiggle. It doesn't bother me and I never notice it when using the knife. I only noticed when someone asked me to check. I have had more pronounced problems with lateral movement on the blades of knives from Case, Queen, Victorinox, Wenger and probably others.

On the 33 patterns, I have not been particularly pleased with the weakness of the springs.

Some seem to pay a lot of attention to gaps in the liners and GEC seems to be better than most.

Based on my limited experience of the 5 GEC patterns that I've tried, I was EXTREMELY pleased with my examples of the 66, 68 and 85 patterns. The other two patterns follow not too far behind.
 
I think you're spot on Will.
The actual function problems were both were both "Pull" related.
The other two were ergonomics (form) related, but that's a personal thing with lots of variables.

I've actually grown quite fond of my nail breaking, overly "Snappy", :eek: little 25 and will always have it.

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The Stag 73????? Not so much.
I'll probably move it down the road to finance the new CSC, or swap it for either another NW or CSC.

Still glad we have so many great knife makers to choose from in our "New and Improved" world though, and I truely hope they all survive these tumultous economic times.
Charlie
 
johnny twoshoes said:
It's not going back to the factory though, I'll just use it and sharpen it down until there is no spring contact.
I used to look at knives and think, why aren't you perfect? Then I got to thinking, even my best knives, almost custom in quality knives aren't 100% flawless.
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I'm no longer looking for perfect knives... I'd never be able to use it. Once you use a knife, its no longer perfect. I'm sure I can always find something wrong if I try hard enough :)

supratentorial said:
I don't find the Remington style hunters particularly appealing but I've been tempted by a couple. Because of negative feedback that I've read on this forum about very strong pulls on this pattern, I've stayed away from them.

On the 33 patterns, I have not been particularly pleased with the weakness of the springs.
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#73s or #23s? I found the newer single blade #73s and #23s with the lanyard hole to not have as strong a pull as previous examples. My newer ebony #23 was the lightest of 4 #23s I have. The #73s were lighter too but 2 are Northfields so the swedge makes the nail nick shallower and harder to open. I don't have any new 2 blade models (with all new parts from 2012) but will be getting some of the 440c #73ECs when they come out soon. Right now, I can say good things about the new Tidioute lanyard hole models.

As for snap on the #33s, I found the stainless models released late last year to have better and more consistent snap than the 1095s. Sample size 8 440c, 6 1095.
 
Trand, I had just become biased against the 73 and 23s in general... unfairly it seems. From what I've seen also, GEC has been steadily making improvements with each run. My more recent stainless conductor is also a bit snappier than the ones from prior runs. What about the older green tea 73 that you and I spoke about earlier? I almost grabbed it but I chickened out after reading the posts about the strength of the pull. What's the pull like on yours?
 
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