New Graham Knives sold me a knife that "appears" used, full refund given

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We will not issue you a partial credit or issue you store credit for the flaws as you requested in the email you sent
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Maybe the point of the original post was an attempt to get a sales concession?


and perhaps risked hurting your own reputation in the process.
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It's a hobby. I don't take needless risks for any reason. I read these threads and pay attention to how people respond. If you don't "Get it" I put you on my ignore list and won't buy or sell to you. Period.

And you know I've been able to avoid problems up to this point. So feel free to express yourself- I'm listening.
 
Michael Dye said:
On a personal note, I wish you had given us a chance to rectify this problem before going public in the forums. Many folks will see this thread and take it at face value - not reading to the conclusion. The damage to the reputation of a business and to my personal reputation is immense. Two things I take very seriously.
md
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Blues said:
Michael, I certainly understand your point of view (and would feel the same way in your shoes) but I honestly believe that the overwhelmingly good reviews you have received from the members on this site (myself included) will speak much louder to those who wish to know about a vendor's rep than the odd instance in which an error (be it poor communication or a product which didn't live up to expectation) arose.

Happy holidays to you and yours. I personally wouldn't give a second thought to worrying about ordering from you (again) when the need arises. I think that point of view will be shared near universally around these parts. :thumbup:
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+100 :thumbup: Elliot

It would take a lot more than one rather impatient/imprudent post to put a dent in the stellar reputation Mike (and Annie ;)) at New Graham have EARNED over many years.

Mike's response indicates how seriously he takes that reputation and how important making sure his customers are well served is to him.
 
FWIW, to me a "used" knife will have wear marks from carry as well as on the edge of the blade from cutting things. "Used" knives are not defined by some scratching along the exposed back of knife. This knife certainly looks NIB, but it has somehow accrued scratching, probably from being banged-around at the factory before it was packaged & shipped to NGK.

How could NGK have known this? Contrary to what some want to believe, knife retailers do not open up and inspect every knife on their shelves with a magnifying glass. Something received from the manufacturer as new is left in the box undisturbed until sold/shipped.

Yes, I think that the OP should have given NGK a chance to respond (or not respond) before posting this. Whether he realizes this or not, these posts can do a lot of harm, even to himself.

For me, I'll probably never do business with Neomentat because of this post. He appears to have way too high expectations and I wouldn't want to deal with any hassles if he finds a scratch somewhere.
 
CWL said:
FWIW, to me a "used" knife will have wear marks from carry as well as on the edge of the blade from cutting things. "Used" knives are not defined by some scratching along the exposed back of knife. This knife certainly looks NIB, but it has somehow accrued scratching, probably from being banged-around at the factory before it was packaged & shipped to NGK.

How could NGK have known this? Contrary to what some want to believe, knife retailers do not open up and inspect every knife on their shelves with a magnifying glass. Something received from the manufacturer as new is left in the box undisturbed until sold/shipped.

Yes, I think that the OP should have given NGK a chance to respond (or not respond) before posting this. Whether he realizes this or not, these posts can do a lot of harm, even to himself.

For me, I'll probably never do business with Neomentat because of this post. He appears to have way too high expectations and I wouldn't want to deal with any hassles if he finds a scratch somewhere.
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He doesn't have too high of expectations at all. A knife that is stated to be NIB shouldn't have scratches on the blade or damage on the clip. I myself wouldn't sell that knife without noting the condition. Of course I would have looked at it closely. NG isn't expected to look at each one they sell. But, they do stand behind what they do sell. He just should have sent it back got a refund and been done with it.
 
It's unbelievable how badly you are beating up on the OP because he voiced his disatisfaction (too early).
Yes you've made it loud and clear (with the 30+ posts) that he should have waited to hear from the seller.

Should he have waited? Probably
If he couldn't wait, should he have left the seller's name out of the post till he got an answer? Probably

People live and they learn. How can you say that this mistake from Graham Knives isn't an issue because it's a one time thing, but this mistake from the OP is? Has he made posts like this in the past?

Piling on him saying his standards are too high and that he's on the 'black list' for it seems like mob mentality to me.
 
jill jackson said:
He doesn't have too high of expectations at all. A knife that is stated to be NIB shouldn't have scratches on the blade or damage on the clip. I myself wouldn't sell that knife without noting the condition. Of course I would have looked at it closely. NG isn't expected to look at each one they sell. But, they do stand behind what they do sell. He just should have sent it back got a refund and been done with it.
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Actually, I think that we are on the same page. I'm just saying that the OP went too far by claiming that NGK is selling used knives as new. Any inspection would show that the marks are not caused by "use". This is a new knife that made it out of Spyderco with cosmetic blemishes. The issue is really with Spyderco's OQC.

He should have waited for NGK to respond and take care of him, like we all know they would. This should never have been posted, but it has and it will likely do more to harm the OP's reputation than NGK.
 
dartheo said:
It's unbelievable how badly you are beating up on the OP because he voiced his disatisfaction (too early).
Yes you've made it loud and clear (with the 30+ posts) that he should have waited to hear from the seller.

Should he have waited? Probably
If he couldn't wait, should he have left the seller's name out of the post till he got an answer? Probably

People live and they learn. How can you say that this mistake from Graham Knives isn't an issue because it's a one time thing, but this mistake from the OP is? Has he made posts like this in the past?

Piling on him saying his standards are too high and that he's on the 'black list' for it seems like mob mentality to me.
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Mob mentality? I have no problems if you want to work any sales or trades with the OP. For me, he'd be more trouble than worth.
 
I do not know the seller > never bought from him.
I will say that as a result of this post I did add someone to my ignore list.:thumbdn:

and it wasn't the seller/dealer.................
 
I read this thread as I know NK has a great reputation. It has been reinforced.

I always ask the vendor to inspect the knife before shipping for any obvious flaws. Once, a vendor replied that the knife, a $200 one, had flaws and was not up to specs. It was the last one in stock so I did without. However, I also avoided what happened here.

Vendors earn their good reputations and are protective of them.
 
I have never regretted waiting until I have contacted the seller and tried to work things out before posting. So far those few attempts have all been successful.

There have been times when I posted or responded to a post out of frustration. I wound up looking like a jackass. It wasn't fun. For what it's worth . . .
 
original post updated to reflect the pending refund from NGK, title is updated to more accurate reflect this "situation"
 
Neomentat said:
original post updated to reflect the pending refund from NGK, title is updated to more accurate reflect this "situation"
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Yea...I guess that works.

Or maybe you can say thank you to NGK, edit the title to remove them, and close this thread...

Then again, maybe not.

Considering you tried to extort NGK for some form of store credit or partial refund I'd say you weren't terribly upset over the "wear" on the knife.
 
Extort? wow... the level of ignorance and blind faith exhibited by your post is just astounding....

Are we children? picking sides in a none existent divide? oh oh teacher... I want to be on NGK's side and I've blocked the other member.... can I get some brownie points....

The funny thing is I don't have a problem with NGK, as I've stated in my original post, I've had very good experience with NGK from my past purchases and I have no doubt that their customer service will take care of me. And I've also stated that the existence of this thread is merely me venting and asking similar experiences if any.

However as the thread progressed, I was repeatedly questioned and attacked because I've "damaged" NGK's good reputation. WTF, I've gotten so mad over how this thread progressed that I changed the tone in many of my posts, though my original post did not accuse NGK of anything but stating a fact that I received what APPEARED TO BE A USED KNIFE.

Let me ask you all this, as far as reputation goes. If I post these pics on the Spyderco forum and Sal says something to the effect that such a knife would not leave their factory and they do not relabel boxes. If that is the case, how will Sal's reputation play into the mix? Would it mean that NGK's lying, I'm sure the ignorant fools will just conclude that I made up the whole ordeal. Would the lot of you deny the conviction of criminals in the face of direct evidence based on their "reputation"? It appears that's what this thread has turned into.

PS: NGK has processed my refund before I even ship out the return, a level of customer service that is unheard of in the online knife community.

So now ooitzoo, if my purpose was to extort, wouldn't now be the perfect time to screw over NGK, not ship the knife and keep it for free? You're a real piece of work.



ooitzoo said:
Yea...I guess that works.

Or maybe you can say thank you to NGK, edit the title to remove them, and close this thread...

Then again, maybe not.

Considering you tried to extort NGK for some form of store credit or partial refund I'd say you weren't terribly upset over the "wear" on the knife.
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As I had already issued a warning to ooitzoo this morning for his unfortunate remark, how about let's all not travel down this road when we're so close to a peaceful and amicable resolution to this matter. It will also keep further warnings and infractions from being issued as a bonus. Thank you to all.
 
Neomentat said:
The funny thing is I don't have a problem with NGK, as I've stated in my original post, I've had very good experience with NGK from my past purchases and I have no doubt that their customer service will take care of me. And I've also stated that the existence of this thread is merely me venting and asking similar experiences if any.

However as the thread progressed, I was repeatedly questioned and attacked because I've "damaged" NGK's good reputation. WTF, I've gotten so mad over how this thread progressed that I changed the tone in many of my posts, though my original post did not accuse NGK of anything but stating a fact that I received what APPEARED TO BE A USED KNIFE.

Let me ask you all this, as far as reputation goes. If I post these pics on the Spyderco forum and Sal says something to the effect that such a knife would not leave their factory and they do not relabel boxes. If that is the case, how will Sal's reputation play into the mix? Would it mean that NGK's lying, I'm sure the ignorant fools will just conclude that I made up the whole ordeal. Would the lot of you deny the conviction of criminals in the face of direct evidence based on their "reputation"? It appears that's what this thread has turned into.
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You need to understand that things simply go wrong sometimes, no matter how good a manufacturer or dealer tries. That is why there are warranties and buyer satisfaction guarantees/ money back guarantees, etc. If you know statistics, or manufacturing, you'd understand that nothing can reach 100% perfection. In fact, great people and companies are better judged by how they are willing to stand-up after a problem comes up.

IMO, you dinged your own rep when you jumped the gun and didn't wait to hear back from NGK for a resolution but posted in a manner that could have greatly damaged NGK's business reputation. A reputation is something that can take years to earn, but just one incident to destroy.

Now if NGK ignored you, then you'd find a lot more sympathy from people, including myself.
 
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This thread has gone way out of hand and the same point was reiterated far more than needed. To the OP, I would recommend closing the thread until Michael Dye receives the knife in return. That or if you or Michael Dye have some more comments to say. At this point, the only comments that there should be are the ones written by the involved parties. I myself should refrain from posting, but I believe the point I'm trying to make justifies in doing so.
 
He said it was covered in lint, who knows? Maybe it was sent out and returned after being carried and made it's way back for sale as new. I doubt the OP bought it to do anything with besides collect it and I myself wouldn't want it with the clip damage and marked up blade to collect. For one if I sold it I couldn't do so as NIB and that would devalue it. The important thing is NG will give you your money back if you aren't happy, that's all you can ask for.
 
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