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Recommendation? New Guys Selling and Trading on BF?

Discussion in 'FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly!' started by Hale Storm, Feb 12, 2020.

Would you buy any knife over $100.00 form a brand new member with zero feedback?

  1. Yes.

    69 vote(s)
  2. No

    54 vote(s)
  1. mjn33


    Feb 13, 2020
    Hey now... the ability to understand the interwebz has nothing to do with an individuals honesty. Believe it or not, I'm an admin for a huge regional motorcycle forum, and I still haven't figured out how to post a stinkin' photo here. :p

    with that said, I totally get what the OP is saying.

    I joined today. I would not expect anyone to buy anything from me until I've at least posted enough to get an idea of who I am. There are just too darned many thieves out there.
    KELAMA, Peter Hartwig and AKnife like this.
  2. NewBlades16

    NewBlades16 Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 28, 2015
    sounds very fair and reasonable!
  3. NewBlades16

    NewBlades16 Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 28, 2015
    There yah go!! Some of the world’s most successful
    People are pencil and paper type.
  4. tyyreaun

    tyyreaun Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 26, 2017
    I'll agree it doesn't have anything to do with honesty, but I do think the ability to post photos correctly (as in, going through the trouble to read the FAQs or how-to posts to figure it out) correlates with being careful and organized.

    In other words, a person not posting photos is probably not more likely to try to rip you off, but I do think they're more likely to accidentally miss some details when inspecting the knife, or to package it less carefully.

    I have no objective data to support that assertion, mind you, but anecdotally, I've had better luck with people who put up professional, well formatted posts with high quality images.
  5. ndmiller

    ndmiller Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Nov 30, 2015
    If it's a knife I wanted at a decent price, being new would have nothing to do with it. Doesn't seem like the scams over the past couple years have any correlation to forum tenure as old timers have gone off the reservation seemingly as often as newbies.

    For me it's the ad and details related compared to the level of detail or care in the pictures taken. Also the level of knowledge about member concerns called out in flaws in user knives followed by pictures of said flaws. Completeness of the package (Box, paperwork, tools, etc) and their condition in the pictures. I also check recently started threads and or other postings to get a feel of how this person discusses things on the forum.

    Nothing above done incorrectly/inappropriately makes the seller a bad person, but could make me go elsewhere for that particular knife. For example, I care not about knife centering, but if the OP discusses it without a picture of it, doesn't make sense in my mind. Includes original box also requires a picture of said box in my mind.
    on_the_edge and jkwithawave like this.
  6. dsutton24

    dsutton24 Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 9, 2018
    The only less than stellar Exchange experience I've had came from a guy who was a 8+ year member with a higher rating than I have. So, easy yes, I'll deal with newer members.
  7. Lodd

    Lodd Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 23, 2015
    I don't know if I qualify as a 'new guy'. I've only got one feedback point (100% score, yeah!), but I've been posting here a long time.

    I consider myself an honest person. If I'm not, then I'm such a damn good liar, even I believe me :D.

    I'll say this: it can be daunting to start buying or selling here if you're new. You've got zero street cred and you're not really sure what the unwritten rules are like. What if the other guy is a pain in the ass? What if he doesn't like your perfectly good knife because someone has breathed on it? He's got the higher rating, ofcourse. What if you accidentally commit a faux-pas? It's all a bit scary.

    But I would like to point out that everyone was new here once. And let's be honest, without an influx of fresh blood, any marketplace will simply die.

    So give the new guys a chance, will ya? I don't mean you should give them a free pass, do keep watching for red flags in the way the communicate etc. But, if they seem ok, give them the benefit of the doubt.
  8. marcus52AR

    marcus52AR Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 22, 2014
    I remember lurking here for about a year before I bought a membership. And possibly 1 more year before I upgraded to Gold to be able to sell.

    It's possible that some of the "new" members aren't as new as they seem.
  9. Monofletch

    Monofletch Basic Member Basic Member

    Jan 14, 2010
    I had a guy contact me by email. He found my sale add through Google and wanted to buy my knife. He wasn’t a member at all.....

    If you are intimidated by 0 feedback just ask them to ship first. 99% of the time it won’t be a problem at all. The one guy that won’t sip first is probably the guy you don’t want to be trading with anyway!!!

    I’ve only been burnt once on BF and once on Archerytalk. Both times I did end up with something in return.
  10. AKnife


    May 10, 2009
    It's true. You can't always judge via feedback or lack thereof. I mean I only have 2 here. However, I have purchased 3 knives here and 5 elsewhere (USN/IG/Direct from makers).

    Having a presence and more posts/community interaction is an easier way to judge character though. Sure G&S covers you, but why go through the hassle if you can avoid it to begin with. Not gonna lie, I have passed on sales due to the seller having low posts even with feedback.

    What reputation do they have to lose if a sale goes south? They'll just go back to IG/FB/Reddit and scam there.
  11. Feca10ne

    Feca10ne Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 29, 2020
    I think to be able buy here on BF you should also have to purchase a membership. That way a buyer at least has something to loose if things go awry.
    I have a hard time selling anything of any $ amount to someone who joined 5 minutes ago, has zero fb and no interaction at all.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
  12. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    !00 feedbacks or 0 if you have a problem with a transaction you can bring it here and tell your story. If it is vague members may side with the more experienced seller or buyer. However if you state your case clearly and are correct in your opinion the members will stand with you and do their best to give you advise and resolution.
    Best thing any new member can do is read the rules and use PP G&S.
    and you can always ask advice before committing to a transaction
    In the end it is up to the new member to get up to speed(as best they can) on the proper way to conduct a transaction, not for the buyer or seller to teach you.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
    palonej, woodysone and Hale Storm like this.
  13. Lodd

    Lodd Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 23, 2015
    That's hardly a collegial attitude. I'd like to think we're a community with a shared passion, not Wall street. Yes, new members should do their best to get up to speed, but it would be nice if more experienced members helped them along the way.

    I see you've got quite some experience under your belt. How did you start out? Did you make mistakes along the way? Learn new things?
  14. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    I Have made mistakes and still possibly could( if I do I take the blame and take care of it), but I have read and know the rules. .That alone will solve many problems along with common sense and treating others as you would like to be treated. If you are unsure of something all you have to do is ask, but if you just try to wing it and screw up, it is on you. Some things are minor and totally excusable others such as misrepresenting an item are not.I have no problem dealing with new members, though I prefer they be here more than a day-since these threads are open to the whole internet world.
    It's really not that hard to do it right and there are plenty of threads as well as a stickie to give you advice .
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2020
    woodysone, KELAMA and Lodd like this.
  15. Feca10ne

    Feca10ne Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 29, 2020
    Dont for one second think PayPal G&S will protect you.
    PayPal will completely screw you over, its just a matter of time.
    falar likes this.
  16. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    Sounds like an overly broad statement with no backup. While there are ways the unscrupulous can even take advantage of PP G&S there are also ways to plug most of those holes if you care to take the time and effort.
    How did they screw you, and more importantly how are they going to screw me? PP is unlikely to be the one screwing,, but could side with someone who is screwing you in certain circumstances.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
    Lodd likes this.
  17. Feca10ne

    Feca10ne Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 29, 2020
    It would take pages to describe. I actually started typing it out the other day before I realized it was getting into the "too long to read" category and just gave up. I've done this a few times on different forums only to realize people dont want to here me, and I dont blame them. Months of my life have been dedicated to writing emails and phone calls to PayPal. It has consumed me to the point of health issues. My wife has told me just to drop it and that its just not worth the hassle anymore and I know thats exactly what they bet on and that just infuriates me more wondering just how many people like me are getting the same treatment and just give up. I have now given up, but Ill never shake it. Whenever PayPal is mentioned I see it my duty to warn others of there shady practices. Its not the money. Money comes and goes. Its the lies, the deception and scam that is allowed to go on that bugs me.
    Ill try to make this short.
    Ive been taken for almost $1200 in the last 7 months. Ive sold on Ebay for almost 20 yrs and have had very little trouble and have always held 100% feedback. I sold a knife last year on Ebay. I was at a family gathering when I quickly accepted the offer on the knife. The next day I noticed the winner had zero feedback. He had already paid and was from a US address. I gave benefit of doubt.. and besides I was protected with PP. Long story short, he claimed counterfeit and kept my knife, PP then deducted $540 from my account and refunded him after I received a half of a banana in a ziplock bag as the returned item. My PP act was suspended because of his allegations so everything else I had on Ebay that people had bid on and won couldn't pay me. My checks bounced next and the long battle with PP began and I lost. Hours on hold, hours typing and begging PP to listen and also not being able to understand hardly anything the Indian customer service said. I am extremely gifted in being able to understand strong accents, but the people I always got on the phone were speaking a indo-aryan language with every other word an English one.

    Round two..
    My wife made the mistake of ordering from a clothing outlet ad she saw on FB. The site looked legit enough and she filled an order for about $600. The next morning she asked me to look at it because the PP "paid" line was to Chinese caricatures. The Website said it was based in the US and we purchase nothing from China. I immediately sent a email to them canceling the order and we got a reply right back in broken English asking WHY? communication eventually stopped but PP refused to cancel payment because they said the seller would have to do that. A week and a half later we received a bag in the mail. 12 individually wrapped tiny vending machine quality doll clothes! I had already been back and forth with PP about canceling payment and now Im trying to explain to another Indian speaking person how I just received doll clothing in the mail. Its not even the full order.

    PP: So you want to cancel order? Im soory but the seller has to do that..
    ME: The seller has refused to cancel the order all along and now I received a third of the order but they were doll clothes!
    PP: You did not like your doll clothes?
    ME: I didnt order doll clothes. I ordered regular clothes and they sent a fraudulent package of doll clothes. TINY DOLL Clothes!
    PP: You didnt receive all your clothes?
    ME: I received one third my order and they were cheep little barbi doll clothes. This is a scam, do you follow?
    PP: So you only received partial order?
    ME: Thats besides the point. Im a victim of a scam involving a fraudulent website.
    PP: So you own the Website?
    ME: Can I speak to some one else please?
    PP: हेलो एंड थैंक यू फॉर चूसिंग Paypal...
    ME: What?
    PP: ी अंडरस्टैंड यू अरे रिक्वेस्टिंग हेल्प इन ा मटर तहत ी ऍम ा डम्ब अस्स अबाउट? इस थिस करेक्ट?
    Me: I need english please...

    My wife hysterically laughing in the background now...
    and this type of correspondence goes back and forth for what would take me pages to write here...over the phone and emails for months. Paypal says I need to ship it all back to China at the cost of another $68.
    I have sense then found out that Im part of a scam that includes PP. There are others just like me and PP has chosen to side with China Co. every time!. Many people have followed PP instructions to a tee only to be told the return package was never received and the time allowed to further escalate any claim has now passed.
    They suspended my wife's account because I kept opening cases and would not drop it. They made it so each time I tried to log in to PP the unauthorized user clause would pop up and Id have to spend an average of 15-30 minutes each time on the phone resetting a password. Eventually every time I tried to file a claim on PayPal or use any help menu it said they were experiencing problems and to try back again in a constant never ending tail chase.
    THIS IS THE SHORT VERSION :( I am sorry this is so long, I did not intend to hyjack this thread.

    If it wasn't for my wife making all of this easier to bare by making jokes I would have pulled my hair out by now.
    I have canceled my EB account of almost 20 yrs. and now the PP accounts will follow.
    Each time I get a box in the mail my wife asks "Did you order another banana?"
  18. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    I understand problem 1 with the knife, and that is the reason many here screen buyers. We don't have loads of scammers here anyway. Other areas of the web are much more dangerous. Scammers use PP's generous buyer protection as part of the scam. With a lot of documentation, photos of the item packaged and such , some seem to win those cases, but obviously you weren't so lucky.
    I have no idea why problem 2 wasn't resolved . Just saying you didn't get what you ordered should have been enough, and you should have then benefitted from the generous buyer protection.
    Sorry for your troubles and I certainly understand your frustration, but think PP G&S is still going to be the best option for most on this forum. I personally don't sell outside the knife forums. and for full disclosure often use money orders both on the buy and sell side, but don't feel it makes the best recommendation especially to new buyers and sellers. Pretty much all methods can be exploited by the scammers if they work hard enough.
  19. Feca10ne

    Feca10ne Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 29, 2020
    Thank you for the kind words.

    My point exactly, its a crap shoot.
  20. Feca10ne

    Feca10ne Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 29, 2020
    Normally maybe it would have been, but PayPal required me to pay $70 shipping to send the items back to where it would have never been received.
    I could have just as easy thrown $70 into the fireplace.

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