New Magazines

IMHO the most fertile place to generate interest in knives is not via new magazines and small, obtuse targets. This presumes the old standby magazines have been mined out. Nothing is further from the truth. I'm not talking about the knife magazines. Most potentials collectors are not inherently interested in custom knives and will not buy a knife magazine or Knives 2008 or go to a knife show. Most collector recruits will come through the back door, e.g. a hunter looking for a better knife. The great bottleneck limiting interest in custom knives is giving the masses of worldwide knife users a REASON to look for the back door.

The are several million hunter/angler knife users in the USA, thousands of which are potential collectors. Where do they buy their knives?--Cabela, Bass Pro, REI, LL Bean, etc. They will not buy a $250 semi-custom Cabela knife when they can get a famous Buck knife for $50 without having a legitimate reason. And who will provide the reason? The answer is NOBODY!

I've subscribed to multiple outdoor mags since 1955, and I have NEVER seen an article on custom knifes. When I was discharged from the army in 1970 and began to assemble hunting gear, I had no clue about knives. I ended up ordering a couple of Randalls on the offhand remark of a gun editor stating that Randal knives were great hunting knives. The hero of my youth was Jack O'Connor, who inspired me to pursue a lifetime of collecting custom rifles and shotguns, but he never said a word about what knives he used. As a kid I used to wait at the mailbox for the latest Outdoor Life and O'connors piece. The mags have shooting, boating, fishing, hunting, reloading, camping, vehicle, dog, medical, etc. editors/departments, but absolutely nothing about knives. It's dereliction and incomprehensible. IMHO, the single most important step in detonating interest in custom knives is getting an eloquent, systematic voice trumpeting the virtues of custom knives on a national outdoor/NRA magazine.

History shows the power of knife articles in outdoor mags. Who can forget the Gun & Ammo piece on Loveless, which launched him into superstardom and spawned a legion of collectors and copycat makers? I somehow missed that article (college or military) and did not discover Loveless until 1980, when a duck hunting buddy pulled out a stag hunter that awed me. I pestered him to sell it to me on the spot. His price was $1200; I laughed at him (my Randalls cost $30 each new in 1971). I had not found the back door.

The custom knife field is ingrown, promoting knives inside the box--knife mags/shows/forums/hammer ins. Like the outdoor mags, they have missed the real target of the multitudes milling around almost begging to be shown why they should consider a forged hunter with a differentially hardened blade. And why they should have a custom skinner, caper, necker, bird & trout, fillet, EDC, camp, skeletonized backpack, kitchen, self-defense, and a few investment art knives to go along with the hunter.

My pilgrimage to custom knives occurred via internet happenstance. I read a hunting forum thread hyping the virtues of D2 steel and Dozier knives. While googling Dozier, I bumped into BF. When I opened BF and saw the spectacular photos of magnificent knives and the flow of information, I had finally entered the back door to find a compelling new universe that changed everything.

Ken
 
Hi Bailey,

Originally Posted by Bailey Bradshaw View Post
...Take a look at Holland and Holland, Purdey, Fabbri, Zeiss, Schmidt and Bender, Ferrari, Rolex, or any other maker of luxury items. They all have an attitude of bending over backwards to make the customer feel special. Consequently, they can advertise a $125k guns or watches in almost any magazine and make those who can't afford one drool, and those that can afford one at least put it on their list of must haves.
Click to expand...

Everyone of the aforementioned products has been around for at least 50 - 100 years. They have spent countless millions of dollars advertising, creating a "Brand" and subsequently brand loyalty.

Josh received 10 orders from the Money article...and did not follow up with additional advertising??? Why not??? If they were such good orders why wouldn't you continue to advertise in that magazine? I suspect it was because of the cost of advertising.

This is an example of what sidehill wrote. We want to expand the market, think outside the box and find new collectors....but we don't want to pay for it!

David, is spot on point:

Magazines are run like a profitable business should be.
These truly mouth-watering ads that you mention are paid for in big $$$.
It is part of the expense budget of these makers.
Coca Cola will pay millions for a half a minute ad during the Superball...

Magazines usually accept an article only when you run at least a half
page full color ad in their pages.... This is sad but also a known fact....
So don't build high hopes regarding articles in most magazines....
Click to expand...

SO you get an article in a National magazine, get orders....but don't follow up.

Then you are looking for new magazines to put articles in, find new clients....and again don't want to spend any money for advertising.

The obvious answer is to have an organization with enough membership that could afford to put ads in several different national magazines. Unfortunately, their only focus is to create more competition for its current members.

Now with over 100 Mastersmith's even if the ABS did advertise...how would an individual maker stand out from the crowd? Each year this situation will become more and more difficult.

Compare the cost of national advertising rates...compared with a full page ad with a beautiful photo on the inside Cover of Blade, Knives Illustrated, the Japanese and French magazines. I suspect you could buy all of that for one decent sized ad in a national magazine.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Hi Ken,

I will have to disagree with this:

The custom knife field is ingrown, promoting knives inside the box--knife mags/shows/forums/hammer ins.
Click to expand...

The majority of ads in national knife publications are more than 50% factory knives.

The majority of the ads by custom knife maker do not feature a professional photograph.

The majority of the ads by custom knife makers do not change out that photo issue after issue.

Very few if any custom knife makers take a full or half-page ad in 4 color with a photo.

Why? Because it costs money.

Remember, Josh is in a very small group of makers, easily less than 50 in the US. That is to say his income is his primary and only form of income. If by his own admission he has never paid for advertising. He has no idea what advertising in Blade, KI, Tactical Knives or Knife World would do for his orders.

My point is, the custom knife market is no where near ingrown. Most custom knife makers, have no clue what advertising in a knife magazine would do for their business.

Couple this with the limited amount of knives a full time maker can make. Throw in knives for shows and previous orders, then add a 12 - 36 month delivery time. You are really stretching a makers ability to enter into a new market.

One more obstacle is that the majority of custom knives purchased around the world are stock removal. Why? Because "Stainless Steel (which it is not)" has been branded world wide.

As David pointed out with regards to the "relationship" with magazines and advertising. I would recommend getting rate cards from all the magazines you want to advertise in. Then look at your marketing plan and determine if your advertising dollars would be better spent in a "Shotgun" approach with the National Magazines or focused approach on a "known" market sector.

While there are exceptions, the majority of hunters are more interested in a new rifle, scope, boots, camo, etc than they are a knife. Even if they do buy one custom knife (which most wont) that will be all they need. Fisherman would rather spend money on a new reel, rod, lure, bass boat, trolling motor, etc. Especially those into catch and release...what do they need a custom knife for.

Those who have the money to hire a charter...the crew will fillet any fish that is caught.

Same with big game hunters using a guide...the hunter doesn't dress out the animal.

For either of these Sportsman...a Small Swiss Army knife is all the need...the one with the tooth pick to clean their teeth after eating the fish or deer.

With few exceptions custom knife makers do not have the business plan nor the capitial to move into new markets.

While this does not mean they shouldn't look for opportunities, just understand that entry into a new market generally comes with a price tag that most just either can't or won't pay.

Currently, there is only one "other market" strategy being utilized by custom knife makers that is paying off. Both short term and long term.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
To Josh and others posting in this thread.

I am not trying to be the bad guy here. Im just trying to point out that entry into other markets has to be planned for. This will entail both time and money...with no guarantee of success.

All of you know that any success that you have achieved in your life came through hard work, taking risks and Luck (which is defined as opportunity and skill meeting).

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
I am proud to be in with such a prestigious group of fine makers. Thanks for taking the time and effort.
 
My take on the is subject is that Josh's main intent was not to find publications promote and sell his own knives. It seems like the larger goal is to get new collectors buying custom knives and maybe he could use his work to do so through promotion. Young collectors especially, because with out them how well can the industry continue to thrive? I think it is the future of the custom knife world that we need to promote, in order to support all of the new makers and the value of our collections. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
jonathan brand said:
My take on the is subject is that Josh's main intent was not to find publications promote and sell his own knives. It seems like the larger goal is to get new collectors buying custom knives and maybe he could use his work to do so through promotion. Young collectors especially, because with out them how well can the industry continue to thrive? I think it is the future of the custom knife world that we need to promote, in order to support all of the new makers and the value of our collections. Correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...

There you go Jonathan, you are looking at the BIG picture. Good for you. :thumbup:
 
jonathan brand said:
My take on the is subject is that Josh's main intent was not to find publications promote and sell his own knives. It seems like the larger goal is to get new collectors buying custom knives and maybe he could use his work to do so through promotion. Young collectors especially, because with out them how well can the industry continue to thrive? I think it is the future of the custom knife world that we need to promote, in order to support all of the new makers and the value of our collections. Correct me if I am wrong.
Click to expand...


Perfectly said.
 
Les has some valid points about the hunters and fisherman. I do agree though that hunter or fisherman are more prone to becoming knife collectors than Fortune readers but most would just prefer to buy new binoculars and pic a knife up at the gas station on the way to their camp.

Les, as a maker advertising in one of these publications would surely put me more behind and expose me to some new collectors but I think the knife organizations and DEALERS should work to expand the market toward those places.

With my orders from the Fortune article I know first hand it had a positive impact on some other makers at the New York show and possibly elsewhere. Collectors that found me in that article have purchased knives from other makers. The fact of the matter however is that if they'd have gone to your site instead of mine maybe 200 people would have found something that interested them instead of the 10 that called me. You as a dealer can help serve a greater audience than I. Even if 200 people called me it'd have been years before they got a knife and they'd have never turned into collectors. Instead if they find you they can buy a knife and scratch that itch instantly.

I have no idea what it costs to run an ad. I'm guessing it costs quite a bit. I'm also certain they help people a great deal. For me, Les, I feel it is better to invest in my shop and in my learning curve whether that be classes at GRS, a trip to a bladesmiths shop, or a hammer in. That's not saying I don't take orders, in fact I love them, but I prefer to take specific orders that push me to newer heights. I learned early on that if you get pounded with orders you can sit there and make the same knife over and over and only improve slightly. But instead it's choosing your work wisely while still producing enough to pay the bills. I still enjoy making a good using knife too. It's not just all about making the fanciest knife possible. Instead it can be making a simple knife but while doing that try a new finish or technique.

I definitely don't have all the answers and 50 years from now when I'm at the Blade Show I might have some of them figured out. But one thing is for sure, I'll still be glad I'm a knife maker.

Being a knife maker, there's no better life!
 
I am not sure that the best expansion potential lies with hunters / fishers. Personally, as a collector, I am most drawn to fine watches and fine pens, etc. There are well marketed magazines servicing those populations, and I think that someone who owns a $14,000 Cartier watch is more likely to shell $3,000 for a fine folder than your average hunter. (Of course, I realize that there are many wealthy hunters / fishermen who also like to collect fine time pieces and the like).
 
How about cross marketing with mens watches, or fine pens?
-the art snob and and collectibility factor

i've seen Brian Tighe and his son Grayson do that in a combined article for pens.

Cruise your local huge bookstore.

http://www.qpmagazine.com/
 
If you want to go elk hunting you gotta go where the elk are.
 
Hi Josh,

Fair enough. I understand your perspective about wanting to improve your skills and improve your shop.

I have had knives I designed or co-designed on the cover of American Handgunner, Tactical Knives and Blade Magazines. As well as articles in all of those magazines.

Like you are limited to how many knives you can make. I am limited as to how many knives I can get from a particular maker. I have learned over the years, there is no reason for me to promote a maker who will only get me one or two knives a year. My relationship with a maker is first and foremost a business relationship.

I would have difficulty entering new markets (outside of custom knives) due primarily to lack of product to sell. Buyers will be much more patient with a maker than they will with a dealer. If I knew I had makers committed to supplying me knives when I needed I would be much more amenable to entering into a new area. Such has never been the case. I can't sell what I don't have.

Same goes for you. Lets say we collaborated on a knife, advertised it in Grey's Sporting Journal and I received 150 orders for a particular knife, say a $1,000 Damascus folder. How many years would it take you to fill that one order...for the same knife. BTW, no shows and no other knives...the customers have been promised no more than a two year wait.

Initially you would be ecstatic with a $150,000 order, until you had been doing it day in and out for 6 months. Oh your table at the ABS show, ECCKS and Blade have been given to other makers. Two more years worth of MS makers are now there as competitors. Your position has actually moved backwards from where it was when you agreed to the order.

This is all hypothetical of course. But what would your saturation point be for one knife? Would you make enough money off that knife to pay for the advertising and be able to pay your bills? What would the price point of that knife have to be?

Im suggesting that the price point would be a lot less in Blade than Grey's Sporting Journal. From a business perspective (I know this is a subject that most makers tend to ignore) your profit margin would probably be higher advertising in Blade.

I tried the firearms market for a couple of years. Advertising regularly with American Handgunner, Guns, White Tail Deer magazine, Weapons for Law Enforcement, a Bass Magazine (don't remember the name) and Grey's Sporting Journal. The best response was from the readers of American Hangunner. The remaining magazines were only responsible for a few orders. So I have looked "outside" the box.

Ultimately I decided to put more effort into improving my position in the global custom knife market. This is helped by activities that put my name out there as much as possible, which in turn benefits the makers I am working with. For instance I was in every issue of Blade Magazine and Knives Illustrated last year...in some cases multiple times in an issue. I have found that this has paid big dividends...much more so than the advertising in non-knife magazines.

Ultimately for most of us involved in custom knives it comes down to how much expendable capital do you have that will still allow you to pay the bills and provide for your family.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Hey Bubba,

Don't forget in most places you Elk Hunt, you need to win a lottery before you can even get a tag to hunt.

Probably have to fly there from Arkansas. Hotel's, food, drinks, etc.

Then there is the guide, gun, ammo, other assorted hunting gear.

Then if you do bag an Elk, you have to dress it out, pack it out, and then if you want some shipped home to eat. You will have to take it to a processor, have it packed and frozen and shipped to your house. Hopefully your freezer is big enough your you will have to get a new freezer.

I hope you don't want the rack mounted...wow, probably another $1,000 + shipping.

Friend of mine went to Arizona for 10 days to hunt Elk. Friend of his had two tags for Does. They saw more Bull's than you could count....you probably have gotten ahead of me....he didn't get one.

Just because you hunt where the Elk are doesn't mean you are going to get one. However, you will pay for the privilege to hunt one.
Easier said than done.

Jerry you have been at this a long time. If the "Elk" were out there....you would know where they are by now. :D

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
 
Les is a collector...but he is a Dealer first...or "Custom Knife Entrepreneur" a title which I like.

There are many ways to reach a new audience.

Let me show you this one:

http://kramerknives.com/articles1-kramerknives.htm Click on the magazine covers to read the articles.

Now, let me show you the magazine, and site that launched all these accolades:

http://www.cooksillustrated.com/member_login.asp?did=591&LoginForm=testing&iseason=

Bob probably sent a knife for trial to Christopher Kimball(publisher) or similar with a nicely composed note, and it probably wasn't the only knife that he did this with...he occupies a niche, but he is also backordered for 3 years, last time we chatted.

I study this stuff, as a profession, and a hobby. I will possibly go into producing factory knives at some point in the future, and the first thing I will do is probably send out about $10,000 worth of knives to magazines,retail buyers and promoters to announce my presence in the market....free stuff catches a lot of attention and appreciation....but it has to go to the right person.

That is why coutour houses and manufacturers give out scads of free stuff to rich and famous people.

Does this make sense?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
We are expanding the market right now, by being involved on these forums. Search engines are watching us :)

Along with advertising, the internet is the best tool I have for my business.
 
I study this stuff, as a profession, and a hobby. I will possibly go into producing factory knives at some point in the future, and the first thing I will do is probably send out about $10,000 worth of knives to magazines,retail buyers and promoters to announce my presence in the market....free stuff catches a lot of attention and appreciation....but it has to go to the right person.

That is why coutour houses and manufacturers give out scads of free stuff to rich and famous people.

Does this make sense?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson[/QUOTE]

I am not rich or famous but if ya ever start givin away knives don't forget about ME....
 
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