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Steven,
Before you go into the production knife business, drop me a line.
Before you go into the production knife business, drop me a line.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
New Magazines
- Thread starter joshsmith
- Start date
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- Oct 8, 2001
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- 12,336
I mentioned earlier, that I had the good luck (Where skill and opportunity meet 
) to have had mine and my client's work published in the April issue.
As it is with ALL my submissions, the editor had complete control over the choices. But... I had the product to follow up.
Here is the cover and a few pages:
The whole eight page spread and more is in this album: Click here
Every single time someone enjoys looking at a custom knife, there is potential for a sale. Somewhere, somehow. As Don Hanson just allowed, even right here--we're doing it.
I'm proud!
Coop
) to have had mine and my client's work published in the April issue.As it is with ALL my submissions, the editor had complete control over the choices. But... I had the product to follow up.
Here is the cover and a few pages:
The whole eight page spread and more is in this album: Click here
Every single time someone enjoys looking at a custom knife, there is potential for a sale. Somewhere, somehow. As Don Hanson just allowed, even right here--we're doing it.
I'm proud!
Coop
I've been wanting to turn myself loose and do a lot more on Knife makers, 'fine' Guns and other art weapons, but resistance from our readers would preclude it. There's much less interest in the mainstream public in 'Art' knives for example than you would hope.
I'm glad I can sneak any knives in here...
GearNinja.com
I'm glad I can sneak any knives in here...
GearNinja.com
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- Oct 28, 2006
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- 13,363
Thanks Coop for sharing it. That's quite an honor.
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
Every single time someone enjoys looking at a custom knife, there is potential for a sale. Somewhere, somehow. As Don Hanson just allowed, even right here--we're doing it.
I'm proud!
Coop
And you should be....fantastic work, and exposure!
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
- Messages
- 324
Hi Les,
I don't recognize that hunter you generalized and oversimplified in the field or on the message boards. There are plenty of gearheads like myself who want the best equipment across the board and will buy custom knives if we can see a tangible advantage. No expensive advertising needed, just an editor in a national outdoor magazine systematically showing photos of beautiful knives and explaining why they are superior.
You are correct that overall relatively few will get into custom knives under the best promotion, but with a base of 15,718,865 hunters (1990 license sales in USA) if only 1/1000 signs on, the number of new collectors is 15,719. This figure does not include the Canadians or the rest of the world.
The number of fishing licenses sold in the USA (1990) was 30,742,212. My gut feeling is that fewer fishermen would be attracted to custom knives, so let's say 1/5,000 are real prospects. That's 6,148, for a grand total of 21,867 potential recruits in the USA alone. Is there any other sector with those kind of numbers?
Ken
I don't recognize that hunter you generalized and oversimplified in the field or on the message boards. There are plenty of gearheads like myself who want the best equipment across the board and will buy custom knives if we can see a tangible advantage. No expensive advertising needed, just an editor in a national outdoor magazine systematically showing photos of beautiful knives and explaining why they are superior.
You are correct that overall relatively few will get into custom knives under the best promotion, but with a base of 15,718,865 hunters (1990 license sales in USA) if only 1/1000 signs on, the number of new collectors is 15,719. This figure does not include the Canadians or the rest of the world.
The number of fishing licenses sold in the USA (1990) was 30,742,212. My gut feeling is that fewer fishermen would be attracted to custom knives, so let's say 1/5,000 are real prospects. That's 6,148, for a grand total of 21,867 potential recruits in the USA alone. Is there any other sector with those kind of numbers?
Ken
Les Robertson
BANNED
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- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi STeven,
You are correct there are lots of ways to gain entry to new markets. It would appear the two main problems facing custom knife makers are:
1) Follow up after the article with additional advertising
2) Spending money on advertising.
The world offers endless opportunities to market your wares and yourself. Almost without exception in todays competitive market this takes capitial.
STeven, you are willing to give away $10,000 worth of knives just to gain initial entry into the marketplace.
I would bet at least a coke, there is not one single custom knife maker knife maker in the US has would spend that much money in a year in any sort of advertising.
You view your business as just that...a business.
Most custom knife makers view their work as art first and the business aspect (and all that entails) a distant second at best.
There in lies the disconnect.
I started using the Entrepreneur term over dealer or purveyor as I found myself doing much more than either a dealer or purveyor of custom knives normally does.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
You are correct there are lots of ways to gain entry to new markets. It would appear the two main problems facing custom knife makers are:
1) Follow up after the article with additional advertising
2) Spending money on advertising.
The world offers endless opportunities to market your wares and yourself. Almost without exception in todays competitive market this takes capitial.
STeven, you are willing to give away $10,000 worth of knives just to gain initial entry into the marketplace.
I would bet at least a coke, there is not one single custom knife maker knife maker in the US has would spend that much money in a year in any sort of advertising.
You view your business as just that...a business.
Most custom knife makers view their work as art first and the business aspect (and all that entails) a distant second at best.
There in lies the disconnect.
I started using the Entrepreneur term over dealer or purveyor as I found myself doing much more than either a dealer or purveyor of custom knives normally does.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi Ken,
Impressive numbers.
Compare and Contrast the amount of advertising dollars the factory knife companies spend on advertising. The amount of outlets that these factory knives are available at.
With the lack of advertising dollars spent by custom knife makers and the limited locations you can purchase a custom knife.
Im not saying it can't be done. I am saying my experience has shown me that it won't be done.
Primarily because:
1) 90%+ of all custom knife makers are part time. As such there main concern is making knives and improving the "Tool" quality in their shop.
For grins give a group of knife makers a tool catalog sometime. You would think it was a group of 12 year old boys looking at a Playboy.
2) Most makers who run an ad once or twice and if they don't get several orders they will tell you that advertising doesn't work. Generally these are ads prepared by the magazine with no photo.
3) As easy and relatively inexpensive as it is to set up a web site, most makers don't have one. As Don Hanson pointed out the Internet search engines can bring the world to your doors!
4) Most makers don't want to pay to have their knives photographed...which has been proven to sell custom knives. If they won't spend $100 t0 $150 to have a knife professionally photographed (the same photo that could be put on their web site, used in an ad, submitted to a magazine for an article, included in a magazine article and put on their table at a show in a photo album). The sale of one additional knife would cover the cost of the photo, especially if you consider the actual cost of the photo after your "business entity" has expensed the photo.
Ken, I think you are getting the idea.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Impressive numbers.
Compare and Contrast the amount of advertising dollars the factory knife companies spend on advertising. The amount of outlets that these factory knives are available at.
With the lack of advertising dollars spent by custom knife makers and the limited locations you can purchase a custom knife.
Im not saying it can't be done. I am saying my experience has shown me that it won't be done.
Primarily because:
1) 90%+ of all custom knife makers are part time. As such there main concern is making knives and improving the "Tool" quality in their shop.
For grins give a group of knife makers a tool catalog sometime. You would think it was a group of 12 year old boys looking at a Playboy.
2) Most makers who run an ad once or twice and if they don't get several orders they will tell you that advertising doesn't work. Generally these are ads prepared by the magazine with no photo.
3) As easy and relatively inexpensive as it is to set up a web site, most makers don't have one. As Don Hanson pointed out the Internet search engines can bring the world to your doors!
4) Most makers don't want to pay to have their knives photographed...which has been proven to sell custom knives. If they won't spend $100 t0 $150 to have a knife professionally photographed (the same photo that could be put on their web site, used in an ad, submitted to a magazine for an article, included in a magazine article and put on their table at a show in a photo album). The sale of one additional knife would cover the cost of the photo, especially if you consider the actual cost of the photo after your "business entity" has expensed the photo.
Ken, I think you are getting the idea.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2007
- Messages
- 324
Les,
Josh's original intent was how to generate more interest in custom knives. Whether the industry can accommodate a surge of new customers is another matter, and I don't disagree with your points.
As a custom gun collector in the 1970-80s witnessing the tsunami of O'Connor-inspired collectors, I can say the top makers simply jacked up prices and stopped taking orders. The boon died rather quickly because the blue collar collector was priced out, and there weren't enough potentates to sustain even some of the top makers over time. Another fatal factor was the emergence the fiberglass stock, which simply outperforms 99% of wooden stocks under most hunting conditions. All of my friends and I sold our collections, and my maker friends are either dead, retired, semi-retired, or building custom flyrods.
Ken
Josh's original intent was how to generate more interest in custom knives. Whether the industry can accommodate a surge of new customers is another matter, and I don't disagree with your points.
As a custom gun collector in the 1970-80s witnessing the tsunami of O'Connor-inspired collectors, I can say the top makers simply jacked up prices and stopped taking orders. The boon died rather quickly because the blue collar collector was priced out, and there weren't enough potentates to sustain even some of the top makers over time. Another fatal factor was the emergence the fiberglass stock, which simply outperforms 99% of wooden stocks under most hunting conditions. All of my friends and I sold our collections, and my maker friends are either dead, retired, semi-retired, or building custom flyrods.
Ken
Les Robertson
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- 3,565
Hi Ken,
I understand Josh's point...I have been hearing the same thing for almost 25 years.
Would it help everyone concerned to bring more collectors into the custom knife market...absolutely. Even me, as Josh pointed out.
The problem is as it has been for the last 25 years. Josh will correct me if I have this wrong.
We as artists want to expand our abilities, create great works of art (knives). However, we would prefer not to invest any of our money. As such we are looking for benefactors who will sponsor these works. As well we would like magazines, museums and any other avenue(s) that we can inform/display our knives to help us with this. Again, please understand will will not pay for any advertising now or in the future.
As you and others have pointed out...magazines are a business. At times you can get an article in one with little or no advertising. However, to truly expand the market...you have to follow up.
There is no reason to talk about expanding the market in any way shape or form without a business/marketing plan to capitalize on favorable results. This is why in the last 10 years there has only been two major reasons for the expansion of the collector base:
1) Factory collaborations. Without a doubt this has brought more collectors into the custom knife market than any other single act.
2) Speculators/Investors. Those who are able to get a nice ROI (compared to most Stocks/Bonds/Commodities) in a relatively short time frame. This is what is pushing the Loveless market and subsequently those who have association with his style of knives.
Interestingly, if it were not for Jerry Fisk the forged makers would be 10 years behind where they are right now. As Jerry has invested both his time and money into promoting world wide not only his knives, but the ABS.
Dollar for Dollar the best way to increase your presence in any market is to utilize the internet. $10,000 would put you in front of millions of potential buyers worldwide in less than 6 months.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
I understand Josh's point...I have been hearing the same thing for almost 25 years.
Would it help everyone concerned to bring more collectors into the custom knife market...absolutely. Even me, as Josh pointed out.
The problem is as it has been for the last 25 years. Josh will correct me if I have this wrong.
We as artists want to expand our abilities, create great works of art (knives). However, we would prefer not to invest any of our money. As such we are looking for benefactors who will sponsor these works. As well we would like magazines, museums and any other avenue(s) that we can inform/display our knives to help us with this. Again, please understand will will not pay for any advertising now or in the future.
As you and others have pointed out...magazines are a business. At times you can get an article in one with little or no advertising. However, to truly expand the market...you have to follow up.
There is no reason to talk about expanding the market in any way shape or form without a business/marketing plan to capitalize on favorable results. This is why in the last 10 years there has only been two major reasons for the expansion of the collector base:
1) Factory collaborations. Without a doubt this has brought more collectors into the custom knife market than any other single act.
2) Speculators/Investors. Those who are able to get a nice ROI (compared to most Stocks/Bonds/Commodities) in a relatively short time frame. This is what is pushing the Loveless market and subsequently those who have association with his style of knives.
Interestingly, if it were not for Jerry Fisk the forged makers would be 10 years behind where they are right now. As Jerry has invested both his time and money into promoting world wide not only his knives, but the ABS.
Dollar for Dollar the best way to increase your presence in any market is to utilize the internet. $10,000 would put you in front of millions of potential buyers worldwide in less than 6 months.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
One of the ways that Jerry did this was by simply raising the bar, and teaching others how to do it, so that "good enough" was no longer good enough....and for that, "they" took a dump in his hand.
Les, of course you are right about the net, but my feeling is for hard goods, and "buzz", you can't beat free stuff.....people remember it, they appreciate it, and they promote it......this comes from experience at many, many SHOT shows, when I would give away especially tasty swag to the "right" buyers, and the subsequent sales more than made up for the loss of stuff.
Best Regards,
STeven Garsson
Les Robertson
BANNED
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- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Hi STeven,
Of course you are right...people love the free stuff at places like the SHOT Show. SWAG to the right buyers is a calculated risk/reward program. Usually paying off with big dividends....if it didn't there wouldn't be "Free Stuff". A similar concept are "Loss Leaders". Those items at a very low price that are used as "bait" to get the consumer to continue to shop.
Exactly how much free stuff do you expect a custom knife maker to give away?
Even more important which ones do you expect to give away the free stuff!
I agree with both you and Ken with regards to the potential markets and buzz that can be explored and utilized to increase sales.
There is only one thing missing from the equation.
As well your assessment of the ABS with regards to Jerry is accurate. How dare he try to be successful on his own. The gaul he exhibited having his own show. Who the hell does he think he is. Oh yea thats right...the best known and most successful member of the ABS. Time for the old men on the board to retire. Odd, you would think the makers would do something about this. Oh well, best just to keep your head buried in the sand.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Of course you are right...people love the free stuff at places like the SHOT Show. SWAG to the right buyers is a calculated risk/reward program. Usually paying off with big dividends....if it didn't there wouldn't be "Free Stuff". A similar concept are "Loss Leaders". Those items at a very low price that are used as "bait" to get the consumer to continue to shop.
Exactly how much free stuff do you expect a custom knife maker to give away?
Even more important which ones do you expect to give away the free stuff!
I agree with both you and Ken with regards to the potential markets and buzz that can be explored and utilized to increase sales.
There is only one thing missing from the equation.
As well your assessment of the ABS with regards to Jerry is accurate. How dare he try to be successful on his own. The gaul he exhibited having his own show. Who the hell does he think he is. Oh yea thats right...the best known and most successful member of the ABS. Time for the old men on the board to retire. Odd, you would think the makers would do something about this. Oh well, best just to keep your head buried in the sand.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Kohai999
Second Degree Cutter
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2003
- Messages
- 12,554
Exactly how much free stuff do you expect a custom knife maker to give away?
Even more important which ones do you expect to give away the free stuff!
I agree with both you and Ken with regards to the potential markets and buzz that can be explored and utilized to increase sales.
3 pieces should be enough IF they establish communication with the intended target in advance, and glean a strong buying signal.
I think Josh Smith should be the one to try this since he put the question forward, and I will donate $10.00 to the cause so he doesn't have to pay for shipping on the first one!!!
:foot: Maybe a baseball cap and t-shirt with a purchase of more than $1,000.00?
Who's with me??YAHHHHHHHHH(running screaming out of my office building, and looking around for support and finding none).
Slowly coming down off the tea,
STeven Garsson
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 7,353
Let's take a step back here. What do makers want? What do collectors want? What do dealers / purveyors / entrepreneurs want?
Makers I assume mostly want the ability to pick and choose their commissions, rather than simply a higher volume - right? Also, more collectors = more demand = higher prices. Finally, they want their craft recognized to the same extent other crafts are.
What do collectors & dealers want, and why?
Makers I assume mostly want the ability to pick and choose their commissions, rather than simply a higher volume - right? Also, more collectors = more demand = higher prices. Finally, they want their craft recognized to the same extent other crafts are.
What do collectors & dealers want, and why?
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Excellent Points Joss.
There is no "one size fits all" solution.
Each component of the custom knife market has different needs and wants.
The things that make custom knives so exciting to so many people are the same things that can make it so frustrating.
While answers may be found in generalities. I don't think there is a consensus for the specifics.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
There is no "one size fits all" solution.
Each component of the custom knife market has different needs and wants.
The things that make custom knives so exciting to so many people are the same things that can make it so frustrating.
While answers may be found in generalities. I don't think there is a consensus for the specifics.
Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 13,363
Well said and very true. :thumbup:
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 646
When I posted the link to this article before it had no pictures. Here's a link now that shows all of the pictures. There are quite a few nice pictures. Enjoy.
http://www.joshsmithknives.com/word.../2008/04/cfj-knife-maker-josh-smith-pages.pdf
http://www.joshsmithknives.com/word.../2008/04/cfj-knife-maker-josh-smith-pages.pdf
