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Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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New Models from Spyderco
- Thread starter Sal Glesser
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There were three sizes of the Lum "Chinese" folder in the concept knife case. If I had to pick one, I'd pick the medium one.
The SpyderCard is probably the most serious knife that you can fit inside a standard wallet. It's a cutting knife with a straight edge and a radical drop point, not a broad-bladed stabber like that Tekna. The steel handle should offer a good surface for personalizing the knife at the neighborhood trophy shop.
The ant-auto Ulu gives you about three inches of vegetable chopping edge, with something like the tip of a serrate Cricket out at the end. In the halfway position, just that end is exposed, and it's the right size for opening a box without ripping up the contents. In the full open position, you can scrape a hide, but be careful of that tip when you do.
I'd like to see the Native and Chief in a flat utility grind intead of that semi-dagger grind, but I suppose that's what the Calpyso line is there for.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
The SpyderCard is probably the most serious knife that you can fit inside a standard wallet. It's a cutting knife with a straight edge and a radical drop point, not a broad-bladed stabber like that Tekna. The steel handle should offer a good surface for personalizing the knife at the neighborhood trophy shop.
The ant-auto Ulu gives you about three inches of vegetable chopping edge, with something like the tip of a serrate Cricket out at the end. In the halfway position, just that end is exposed, and it's the right size for opening a box without ripping up the contents. In the full open position, you can scrape a hide, but be careful of that tip when you do.
I'd like to see the Native and Chief in a flat utility grind intead of that semi-dagger grind, but I suppose that's what the Calpyso line is there for.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
- Joined
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- 481
Since the Chief sounds like a more "tactical" knife, I would expect it to be in a darker, less flashy color. I would like to see the Lum Chinese utility folder and the new Calypso Jr Lightweight in some other classy color, though -- Burgundy, Maroon and Hunter Green all sound pretty appealing to me.
On the subject of the new Calypso Jr Lightweight, that is a real mouthful of a name. The pics James posted look great and it sounds even better in a nice classy color other than black, but it really needs a new name. Since it looks to be the only remaining member of the Calypso line, I suppose you could just call it Calypso, but that would probably be too confusing. Something continuing the dance theme? Maybe Tango?
Something following on the Caribean theme? Not voodoo! Habañero, like the pepper?
As long as it doesn't have to be orange like the pepper.
Whatever, it needs a shorter and catchier name than "new Calypso Jr Lightweight".
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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
[This message has been edited by prn (edited 16 June 1999).]
On the subject of the new Calypso Jr Lightweight, that is a real mouthful of a name. The pics James posted look great and it sounds even better in a nice classy color other than black, but it really needs a new name. Since it looks to be the only remaining member of the Calypso line, I suppose you could just call it Calypso, but that would probably be too confusing. Something continuing the dance theme? Maybe Tango?
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Paul Neubauer
prn@bsu.edu
[This message has been edited by prn (edited 16 June 1999).]
stjames
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While "The Native" is innocuous enough, after all, everyone born in North America is native of it; the reference is clearly taking on the implication toward those of aboriginal American ancestry. This is the most widely tolerated form of racial slur in the USA today, and should not be perpetuated further in any way. What other community has to tolerate being the mascot of a major league athletic team? While the members of that community have more than their share of work to do on this issue, the last thing any company should do is contribute to the mindset perpetuated by this type of marketing.
I write this with an exception and my sincere apologies to the members of the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement Agencies, where the title Chief is used properly, as part of the official command ranking system. If the name of this knife had been proposed as part of the Military line, it would have been an excellent choice.
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James
I write this with an exception and my sincere apologies to the members of the Armed Forces and Law Enforcement Agencies, where the title Chief is used properly, as part of the official command ranking system. If the name of this knife had been proposed as part of the Military line, it would have been an excellent choice.
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James
StJames, since you posted in two spots, so will I:
With all due respect, I think you're taking either political correctness too far or are very Ameri-centric. Although the Random House Dictionary lists 8 definitions for the word "native," the basic meaning is "from a certain place by birth or origin" when used as a verb to describe a person, animal, plant, or idea; and "a person from a certain place by birth" when used as a noun. No mention is made of American Indians whatsoever.
The Spyderco Native is so-named because it was the first of their knives to see production in this country rather than Japan. The Chief is merely a play on words, recognizing the fairly accurate concept that "natives" (when used to describe aboriginal peoples) frequently have a simple patriarchal social structure with one individual as the leader. This is true in some cultures of the Congo, the Amazon basin, the Australian outback, and many other areas. It has no more inherent connection to American Indians than do bows or loincloths - both simple items found in primitive and some advanced cultures worldwide (and by no means found in every American Indian culture).
If Spyderco had decided to put a big, smiling "Redskin" with a feathered head-dress and a bottle of hooch on the knife's handle, I could understand being offended. But as it is, I feel the name is harmless.
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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
With all due respect, I think you're taking either political correctness too far or are very Ameri-centric. Although the Random House Dictionary lists 8 definitions for the word "native," the basic meaning is "from a certain place by birth or origin" when used as a verb to describe a person, animal, plant, or idea; and "a person from a certain place by birth" when used as a noun. No mention is made of American Indians whatsoever.
The Spyderco Native is so-named because it was the first of their knives to see production in this country rather than Japan. The Chief is merely a play on words, recognizing the fairly accurate concept that "natives" (when used to describe aboriginal peoples) frequently have a simple patriarchal social structure with one individual as the leader. This is true in some cultures of the Congo, the Amazon basin, the Australian outback, and many other areas. It has no more inherent connection to American Indians than do bows or loincloths - both simple items found in primitive and some advanced cultures worldwide (and by no means found in every American Indian culture).
If Spyderco had decided to put a big, smiling "Redskin" with a feathered head-dress and a bottle of hooch on the knife's handle, I could understand being offended. But as it is, I feel the name is harmless.
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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
Sal Glesser
Moderator
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James - Someone said that this qustion might come up...Corduroy, thanx for the explanation, but there's more.
The "Native" was the first Lightweight model that Spyderco made in the Golden facility. It was called "Native" to represent Native American. It was not intended to capitalize on or lessen the name. It was named that way because a percentage of all "Native" sales, both the lightweight and the stainless model is put into a fund for Native Americans. This fund (when in large enough quantities) is donated to a local Native American foundation that uses it for assisting local Native American needs. We don't have to ask for or answer to the Government for this activity. It is just one of the ways that Spyderco tries to help the local community. (Something I believe that every business should pay attention to).
We called it the "Chief" as an "in-house" designation and may or may not be used. We hadn't seriously looked at a name because we hadn't decided to produce it. If Native Chief is offensive, then, we may not use it. We are also open to any great names you may have. Other than the Blade Show and this mention on the forum, it has not been shown or mentioned anywhere else. It is really a Native with an inch added to each end. We have drawings for a smaller "Native" that is being called "in-house", "Papoose". No harm meant. I guess that could be a problem too?
sal
The "Native" was the first Lightweight model that Spyderco made in the Golden facility. It was called "Native" to represent Native American. It was not intended to capitalize on or lessen the name. It was named that way because a percentage of all "Native" sales, both the lightweight and the stainless model is put into a fund for Native Americans. This fund (when in large enough quantities) is donated to a local Native American foundation that uses it for assisting local Native American needs. We don't have to ask for or answer to the Government for this activity. It is just one of the ways that Spyderco tries to help the local community. (Something I believe that every business should pay attention to).
We called it the "Chief" as an "in-house" designation and may or may not be used. We hadn't seriously looked at a name because we hadn't decided to produce it. If Native Chief is offensive, then, we may not use it. We are also open to any great names you may have. Other than the Blade Show and this mention on the forum, it has not been shown or mentioned anywhere else. It is really a Native with an inch added to each end. We have drawings for a smaller "Native" that is being called "in-house", "Papoose". No harm meant. I guess that could be a problem too?
sal
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Corduroy's eloquent comment on the meaning of the word "native" reminds me of the following true story.
My wife and I play the Scottish Highland bagpipe. One day we were out practicing in a large, open area of Brigham Young University, where we happened to be students at the time. Now, it often happens, when practicing bagpipes outdoors, that curious people approach to listen and sometimes ask questions. On this occasion a very enthusiastic woman came running up to us, in some sort of Celtic rapture, and asked us, "Are you from your native land"? I said, "Yeah, isn't everybody?".
David Rock
My wife and I play the Scottish Highland bagpipe. One day we were out practicing in a large, open area of Brigham Young University, where we happened to be students at the time. Now, it often happens, when practicing bagpipes outdoors, that curious people approach to listen and sometimes ask questions. On this occasion a very enthusiastic woman came running up to us, in some sort of Celtic rapture, and asked us, "Are you from your native land"? I said, "Yeah, isn't everybody?".
David Rock
stjames
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It is nice to hear that the intent was honorable, but the history between the "Native Americans" and the Europeans that arrived in this continent is full of honorable intentions. The Christian missionaries who spread disease as they attempted to save the Souls of people around the world certainly had the most honorable of intentions. No matter the intent, this type of marketing is inappropriate, even if it lacks a tomahawk chop or "a big, smiling "Redskin" with a feathered head-dress and a bottle of hooch on the knife's handle". The fact is it cannot help but do more harm than good, and continuing this line of marketing would just aggravate the situation.
And gentlemen, don't assume too much from what I thought was a simple post about knife marketing, either about my feelings on the issue or my background in general. I was very specific in my concerns about the continued perceptions in this country regarding "Native Americans", and feel that no company, no matter the intentions, should help perpetuate them. I would urge Sal to consider this when naming any new products.
I happen to own two fine Leather sheathes, made by Gary Graley, with a very dignified profile of a "Native Chief" in full headdress imprinted on the leather. I wear them proudly.
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James
And gentlemen, don't assume too much from what I thought was a simple post about knife marketing, either about my feelings on the issue or my background in general. I was very specific in my concerns about the continued perceptions in this country regarding "Native Americans", and feel that no company, no matter the intentions, should help perpetuate them. I would urge Sal to consider this when naming any new products.
I happen to own two fine Leather sheathes, made by Gary Graley, with a very dignified profile of a "Native Chief" in full headdress imprinted on the leather. I wear them proudly.
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James
I vote for a navy blue G-10 handle. I didn't love the Blue Native as I fear it will fade over time (false fear?). Besides, it looks too much like a neon blue - very 'loud.'
Henry Ford had the right idea: "You can have any color you like. As long as it's black."
Henry Ford had the right idea: "You can have any color you like. As long as it's black."
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Just a quickie about mascots of sports teams - Minnesota Vikings, Fighting Irish of Notre Dame...
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If you're worried about offending Native Americans by using the name "Chief", all you need to do is take a trip to Cherokee, NC. It's a tourist trap and gambling mecca. Ridiculous stereotypes of "Indians" abound there. The worst offenders? Native Americans themselves. I was actually quite shocked the first time I went there and saw sooooo many Native Americans making a buck by perpetuating age-old stereotypes.
Sal said:
St. James - What makes your Indian head sheaths (of which I also own one) any less offensive (in your eyes) than the name "Native Chief"? Especially considering the gracious gestures by Spyderco.
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Kelly
home.sprintmail.com/~maddash
AKTI Member #A000289
Deo Vindice
[This message has been edited by Senator (edited 17 June 1999).]
Sal said:
I for one applaud Spyderco for just plain "doin' the right thing". Just because the knife (or anything else) has an (insert the PC name of the day here) name to it, do not automatically assume that the name is meant to be offensive. Sal, keep the names. They are fitting tributes to a great people.
St. James - What makes your Indian head sheaths (of which I also own one) any less offensive (in your eyes) than the name "Native Chief"? Especially considering the gracious gestures by Spyderco.
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Kelly
home.sprintmail.com/~maddash
AKTI Member #A000289
Deo Vindice
[This message has been edited by Senator (edited 17 June 1999).]
stjames
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Kelly, I feel a company using ethnic references for a marketing ploy is wrong, and should be discouraged. Did Gary sell you the sheath with any implication about the design other than its esthetic appeal? I saw the design on another of Gary's sheaths, and asked him to use it. He did not try and sell me an "Indian Head Sebenza Sheath", even though that is an accurate description. He just made me a very nice sheath to my specifications. Spyderco, no matter how well intentioned, is using the terms in question as a marketing tool.
As for the Fighting Irish, Vikings, even Warriors and Braves, these are all terms that imply some nobility. Indians is a misnomer, but one look at the team logo and you can guess that it is not a tribute. And gentlemen, the term Red Skin is a racial slur, plain and simple.
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James
As for the Fighting Irish, Vikings, even Warriors and Braves, these are all terms that imply some nobility. Indians is a misnomer, but one look at the team logo and you can guess that it is not a tribute. And gentlemen, the term Red Skin is a racial slur, plain and simple.
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James
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Vikings, Celtics, Highlanders, et al., and their descendents, may have collective grievances in the "old world," but not so much in North America. There's no need to annoy potential customers, even if the annoyance is not completely logical. Neither are language or history. Since this bunch is not exactly a "politically correct" crowd, a dissenting voice of ethnic annoyance here should probably be taken seriously.
And, though I don't know whether it's a red-flag racial slur (like that s-word for a Native American woman), or merely obsolete, I'd ditch the name, "Papoose."
For contrast, how about "Stranger"? Or maybe Native-XL? And, for a small one, Little Native?
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
And, though I don't know whether it's a red-flag racial slur (like that s-word for a Native American woman), or merely obsolete, I'd ditch the name, "Papoose."
For contrast, how about "Stranger"? Or maybe Native-XL? And, for a small one, Little Native?
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
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James - The names Warriors and Braves denote nobility, but Chief doesn't? I don't get it. It would seem that "Chief" is the noblest of them all.
As for, "a company using ethnic references for a marketing ploy", heck - that's exactly what marketing is. Companies define the target market for a given product, then design a marketing strategy geared to appeal to that particular group. Ever notice that most menthol cigarettes are marketed to African Americans? Virginia Slims are marketed to white women. Mountain Dew (Do the Dew!) is geared towards teenagers (of whatever ethnicity).
I think it's clear that Sal and company had honorable intentions when naming the Native and Native Chief. They did not degrade Native Americans in any way. Quite the contrary - they return a portion of profits to local Native Americans in need. Instead of accusing Spyderco of using just another "marketing ploy", please see the true meaning behind the naming of their knives. If I were an American Indian, I'd be most happy that a company like Spyderco was honoring me in such a way.
As for the sheath, if you choose the Indian head design then that's honorable, but If the maker calls it the "Indian Head Sheath" then it's not. Again, the logic escapes me.
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Kelly
home.sprintmail.com/~maddash
AKTI Member #A000289
Deo Vindice
As for, "a company using ethnic references for a marketing ploy", heck - that's exactly what marketing is. Companies define the target market for a given product, then design a marketing strategy geared to appeal to that particular group. Ever notice that most menthol cigarettes are marketed to African Americans? Virginia Slims are marketed to white women. Mountain Dew (Do the Dew!) is geared towards teenagers (of whatever ethnicity).
I think it's clear that Sal and company had honorable intentions when naming the Native and Native Chief. They did not degrade Native Americans in any way. Quite the contrary - they return a portion of profits to local Native Americans in need. Instead of accusing Spyderco of using just another "marketing ploy", please see the true meaning behind the naming of their knives. If I were an American Indian, I'd be most happy that a company like Spyderco was honoring me in such a way.
As for the sheath, if you choose the Indian head design then that's honorable, but If the maker calls it the "Indian Head Sheath" then it's not. Again, the logic escapes me.
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Kelly
home.sprintmail.com/~maddash
AKTI Member #A000289
Deo Vindice
stjames
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Kelly, I was referring to the use of the term Red Skin in contrast to other ethnic or culture based names for athletic teams. He terms Native and Chief are innocuous enough, and indeed apply a certain nobility. My objection remains to this form of marketing in reference to using Native Americans as even willing mascots for products. This has been perpetuated in this country long enough, and I would just like to see Spyderco take that into consideration.
I am confused by your definition of marketing ploy. Are you implying that Spyderco is marketing this knife towards Native Americans and not the general public? Or that the Indians, Warriors, Kansas City Chiefs and Washington Redskins are expecting to attract more Native Americans to their games than other ethnic groups?
As for the sheath question, it is again a matter of personal taste employed and not marketing. You like the design, you purchase the product. It is an esthetic choice. I have no qualm with images or even references to the past, as long as they are not slanderous.
It is not that I think the knife is not a good reflection on Natives or Chiefs, or that these are not noble terms. What we are talking about is a new product being proposed, and how the mass marketing involved would or would not effect the group it was referencing. It could very well be a benefit to some people, but my point is that this type of marketing has gone on for too long in this country, and continuing it does not truly benefit anyone. We do not need to continue to add to the lexicon of division in this nation.
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James
I am confused by your definition of marketing ploy. Are you implying that Spyderco is marketing this knife towards Native Americans and not the general public? Or that the Indians, Warriors, Kansas City Chiefs and Washington Redskins are expecting to attract more Native Americans to their games than other ethnic groups?
As for the sheath question, it is again a matter of personal taste employed and not marketing. You like the design, you purchase the product. It is an esthetic choice. I have no qualm with images or even references to the past, as long as they are not slanderous.
It is not that I think the knife is not a good reflection on Natives or Chiefs, or that these are not noble terms. What we are talking about is a new product being proposed, and how the mass marketing involved would or would not effect the group it was referencing. It could very well be a benefit to some people, but my point is that this type of marketing has gone on for too long in this country, and continuing it does not truly benefit anyone. We do not need to continue to add to the lexicon of division in this nation.
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James
Sal Glesser
Moderator
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StJames - We have not used the Native American any way in our marketing and will not do so now. I mentioned the fact on this thread because it is a fairly small select group. It is not my inention to "spread the word". This is a private thing Spyderco is doing and frankly, it's really non of the general public's business.
We seem to have the same discussion going on two threads. Please move the discussion on the policaly correctness of the name to the "Native (big) Chief" thread, and keep this thread for the new items questions. Thanx much.
sal
We seem to have the same discussion going on two threads. Please move the discussion on the policaly correctness of the name to the "Native (big) Chief" thread, and keep this thread for the new items questions. Thanx much.
sal
