New Orleans, the shame of America

Like several others here, I served in the U.S. Army, and I have many friends in my unit (we were artillery forward observers) who were deployed overseas.

All I can say is that the people who are the most vocal about the need for American intervention and troops in Iraq...

...have never served in the military, and especially never been deployed in a foreign country in wartime conditions-including many of my current co-workers/peers who act pretty hawkish on "Reasons for War".

Sure, you don't need to be a soldier to have an opinion about war- but it helps.

FYI , if you ask most soldiers, they're not too gung-ho on the whole situation. Sure, they go (and I'd have gone too, if my service term hadn't ended shortly after 9/11) because that's their job- but you don't hear them loudly justifying the need to intervene in Iraq.

We have a couple returning veterns at my workplace, and PTSD (post-traumatic stress-disorder) has screwed them both up pretty bad (and I was a guy who didn't even believe in PTSD a few short years ago). We're messin' up a whole generation of our finest. This damn war's gonna ruin the military. Who's gonna be our NCOs when all the privates are gettin' out soon as they see that their wartime career is gonna be permanent wartime theater deployment?

Ok, I NEVER RANT..but I can't stand to hear talk of war from Chickenhawks (present company "kinda" excluded). You believe we should fight? Then shut-up and join-up, 'cause the U.S. armed forces needs you.

-Soupah
 
The_Shadow said:
And we say it is to "liberate the Iraqi people". Bull. It is the oil.
If we want to be the New Roman Empire, at least come out and declare it don't be hypocritical about it.
Click to expand...

That's the truth. There are hundreds of thousands of people being killed in Sudan, but we choose to go after Iraq. If the administration's real reason to go into Iraq was to secure the oil, then they should have just freaking said that instead of lying (which is what they did). The American people should be allowed to look at things on their merits rather than being manipulated by politicians. :grumpy:
 
soupah said:
...have never served in the military, and especially never been deployed in a foreign country in wartime conditions-including many of my current co-workers/peers who act pretty hawkish on "Reasons for War".

Sure, you don't need to be a soldier to have an opinion about war- but it helps.

Chickenhawks (present company "kinda" excluded). You believe we should fight? Then shut-up and join-up, 'cause the U.S. armed forces needs you.

-Soupah
Click to expand...

In my 'kill em with kindness voice' you can 'kinda' eat a bug. :thumbdn: ;)

This isn't a military society, and I've got as big a vote as you do, and my voice counts as much too. Sorry if that pains you but again, eat a bug.:thumbdn: ::thumbdn: :thumbdn: :thumbdn: :mad:

"well we used depleted uranium shells on it, and for a few centuries now the land will not produce healthy food."

Exxagerator
 
Dear Soupah,

We have elected leaders and a Constitutional Republic precisely so that
mob rule, or populist propaganda, or extreme Leftist talking points like yours, or whatever the media flavor of the month is, does not dictate policy. You are in the wrong country.

Your argument and opinion are superficial and reek of a fair amount of ego, anger, and thinly disguised social resentment. What has this forum possibly done to deserve your SNEER?

Here's a good idea: want a bridge built over the Manhatten river? Better be willing to get out there with Soupah or you won't be allowed to drive over the finished bridge. You say you're no good at molecular biology? Too bad; you're last on the list of getting new drug interventions.

The fact is, the Armed services are ALL VOLUNTEER. So are the Police, Fire, and high wire electricians.


But there's nothing like a little class resentment and sloganeering, is there?


""Chickenhawks (present company "kinda" excluded). You believe we should fight? Then shut-up and join-up, 'cause the U.S. armed forces needs you.""
-Soupah

Finally, the logic is underwhelming. Anyone who agreed with any war or military action must serve in our military or be called a coward by you.

I think you are a coward, because you are hiding behind intellectual dishonesty, and passing it off as 'tough talk".






munk
 
I must have missed something.

Why is a guy that lives in Japan telling us Americans what to do in our country and with our politics?

Why is he being taken seriously?

Why such political posts on the Cantina.

I am certain I must be missing something.
 
Bladite;

I would not consider you 'anti patriotic'. I think you are wrong, as is Hollow, but I think you both love your Country, and I respect that.


munk
 
Why is a guy that lives in Japan telling us Americans what to do in our country and with our politics?

Why is he being taken seriously?

Why such political posts on the Cantina.>>>>> Steve Poll

Steve, I hope you're not referring to Danny in Japan. He is a Texan currently studying Martial Arts in Japan. (not that a Japanese forum member could not opine on this or any thread)

Politics are elective. So are all sometimes controversial threads, like martial arts, or the decline of western civilization.

munk
 
I support Danny's right to post these types of threads.

I do not however like them very much--or rather how many of them there seem to be lately.

He probably doesn't like some of mine. I have a hunch we're on opposite sides of the glass half full/half empty view of things. And that's ok.

That's life. and it keeps life interesting.
 
I agree. Danny is an American, and a forumite to boot. His post wasn't taken as offensive by me this morning, I disagreed, and was anxiously waiting to hear his rebuttle. I learn from Danny, and his depth of historical study of these issues. He is my brother as you all are and I value our disagreements. However, as a person, whose family has fought and died for us all, but who never served in our esteemed military, I'm still an American damnit. Pussish as it may seem that I haven't seen combat, or served myself, that doesn't mean I'm going to renounce my voice, my citizenship, or my love of this nation.

Our friend Spectre is headed to Iraq in all likelyhood. I pray daily for his safe return. I honor his service. I am humbled by him for it, and you too Soupah. And so I support our boys, our strategy, our leader (a man, and imperfect). I have hope, and keep it near my heart. Details schmetails. God help this to work out for us, and bring John home safe.
 
If we can't have political, or controversial threads like martial arts, (and people have almost come to blows over some of them...) because we cannot trust ourselves with them, is the problem with the subject, or is the problem with us?

I, for one, am willing to sing a verse of, "Where have all the flowers gone?" during a mid thread break on all controversial threads. Thankfully, you won't have to hear me.



munk
 
munk said:
Why is a guy that lives in Japan telling us Americans what to do in our country and with our politics?

Why is he being taken seriously?

Why such political posts on the Cantina.>>>>> Steve Poll

Steve, I hope you're not referring to Danny in Japan. He is a Texan currently studying Martial Arts in Japan. (not that a Japanese forum member could not opine on this or any thread)

Politics are elective. So are all sometimes controversial threads, like martial arts, or the decline of western civilization.

munk
Click to expand...

I know nothing about Danny.

Just like you and Danny (anyone) I have the right to opine also.

Sounds like you watch Bill O'Reilly.

There is a forum for threads that take on a political aspect. I know of two that were moved by moderator from this board rather recently.
 
Steve Poll said:
I know nothing about Danny.

Just like you and Danny (anyone) I have the right to opine also.

Sounds like you watch Bill O'Reilly.

There is a forum for threads that take on a political aspect. I know of two that were moved by moderator from this board rather recently.
Click to expand...

ranty mc rant mode

well, danny is an american living abroad. lots of americans living in other countries either have to hide, pretend they are canadian, or take a lot of shit and opinions... because much of the world doesn't appreciate the american position - invading countries, and forcing democracy down their throats. oddly enough, is the USA still a democracy in the pure sense? really? how about a republic with socialist overtones.

aside from the deaths - many of which seem needless - i'm apalled at the amount of money spent so far for all that effort - much of which seems to be disappearing and not accounted for while leaving our boys without the gear they need, the cost of gas today - which naturally isn't iraq's fault, or katrina's fault, it's really the chinese and india consuming more resources and driving the market. we won't mention the fact that despite having record surplus amount of crude, a real bottle neck is refining - they've deliberately crippled what we've got, shut some down, won't allow new ones to be built. they can cry and raise prices. record profits beyond the dreams of midas. ouch. so, NO-LA is still screwed, the dykes/etc were not fixed, the money was taken away, they're building luxury bridges in alaska for some reason instead, FEMA is a joke, people are already forgetting the govt infrastructure down there collapsing in mere days, police forcing people to either stay, or channeled to preserves, because nearby states that had their acts together were turning people away - apparently the land of the free is only free when you aren't escaping a natural disaster. heads should of rolled over many of those screw ups alone, but did they? nope.

i would like to believe in a better america. i would like to believe i can choose the leaders i feel would help, but my vote apparently has been ignored. the ones we have ... oiy. look at how many people have recently resigned. i've never heard of the like. look at the number that SHOULD. how many people working for *us* right now have family in the military? close to none. i personally know ... dozens of people in the military and have gone to iraq, come back, gone back. fortunately they're all alive and not too screwed up. me? i volunteered and was sworn into the airforce fresh out of highschool. a long line of military in our family, most of whom died for that effort. my dad and uncle survived, uncle was most screwed up by it - career guy. i tried - just before shipping out the airforce said "we have too many people, you are the weakest link, see ya"... oops.

bladite
 
Steve,
Danny has been here a long time and is well respected, and I don't care if you know about him or not. A little more reading would have solved that mystery, and you wouldn't have to complain about foriegners posting about 'America". HI forum is international.


I also don't give a fig what you think about the Cantina or controversial threads. Your attitude sucks and here is what you've harvested.

Sounds like I watch Bill OReilly? Sounds like you are prejudgin.

Never said you didn't have a right to opine. You wish to spend that right bitching in a thread you disagree with that's cool with me.

munk
 
>>>> Why is a guy that lives in Japan telling us Americans what to do in our country and with our politics?

Why is he being taken seriously?>>>>>>>>> Steve Poll

This is what Steve Poll said about another member who lived in another country. This was inappropriate and this was my response: "Steve, I hope you're not referring to Danny in Japan. He is a Texan currently studying Martial Arts in Japan. (not that a Japanese forum member could not opine on this or any thread)

Politics are elective. So are all sometimes controversial threads, like martial arts, or the decline of western civilization."

Then we have Mr Poll's next snippy response to what I consider a polite comment on his rudeness;


<<<<I know nothing about Danny.

Just like you and Danny (anyone) I have the right to opine also.

Sounds like you watch Bill O'Reilly.

There is a forum for threads that take on a political aspect. I know of two that were moved by moderator from this board rather recently>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Steve Poll


Steve, you are out of line, and I believe your earlier banning was probably less 'undeserved' than you 'opined' to us at the time.
And the more I think about it- you were willing to participate in a political thread to the extent of asking why we should listen to a 'guy from Japan'- you were willing to get this in, but believe political threads should be moved.

Unbelievable.

munk
 
munk said:
Dear Soupah
I think you are a coward, because you are hiding behind intellectual dishonesty, and passing it off as 'tough talk".
munk
Click to expand...

Munk, I would never call you a coward. Even if the luxury of the internet allows me to do so without being punched in the nose. ;) I hope you'd take that comment back about me. Though maybe I derserved it, if you think I was calling you a chickenhawk...but I don't know anything 'bout you, cept you like khuks and like forums.

And the forum's not getting my sneer- well, not much. Not the Himalayan Imports forum, at least. Actually, it's people at my workplace who've been buggin' me, so sorry for dumping on all of you. As we see, it's a hot button topic. I DO feel some social resentment. I'm ashamed that our current government (democrats and republicans) don't have many children in the military. Historically, I bet that's recent. My father served and I served, and I hope my kids serve.

It used to be a point of pride to serve in the military, even amongst the elite.

I wish I had more input in the whole going-to-war-thing, but I don't. I just hope that, in the future, those that have such decisions in their hands have a chance to understand it more intimately, like Bush-the-elder.

BTW, I'm not a liberal. Or a conservative. Hell, I'm Gen-X; I'm nothing. Don't ask me to make many value judgements. :(
 
Soupah,

You said:


.<<<"".have never served in the military, and especially never been deployed in a foreign country in wartime conditions-including many of my current co-workers/peers who act pretty hawkish on "Reasons for War".

Sure, you don't need to be a soldier to have an opinion about war- but it helps.

Chickenhawks (present company "kinda" excluded). You believe we should fight? Then shut-up and join-up, 'cause the U.S. armed forces needs you.""">>>

Present company 'kinda excluded'!! What does that sound like to you except not so vailed calling many in the forum 'cowards'?

Now, you are right- you printed my last line, but not the entire post, and out of context, it looks bad. Looks like I'm going around calling coward every which way. Let me apologize to you for that.

I don't think you are a coward- not in the sense you mean. I think you are hiding behind logic and emotionalism that is not substancial, as I've outlined to you. ( if you really want to know, we all hide somewheres, because Human beings are just not that strong- but- another thread)

I don't want you to sneer at HI forum. I don't really think you should be angry about non combantants- the majority of the population of the US- I think you should be angry about what you see as an unjust war. Doesn't that make sense? Isn't that the source of your anger? Why get mad at us, or Joe Blow Gas Station attendant?

(Yes Joe, I know you are 'more' than just a Exon employee)

Stick around, Soupah. This is a pretty good place.
And I thank you for your service to our great Nation!
(and btw, I'm mostly a libertarian. I don't trust either political party)


munk
 
Thanks munk- I'll keep my teakettle off the burner in the future. :) It's not often I lose my temper on forums- by the time I've typed out my thoughts, I've calmed down. Sorry to take you out of context.

I hate talking about anything like this stuff. Better to drink some fanta and listen to more Sinatra.

-Soupah, your resident (mostly apolitical) stay-away-from-threads-like-these-in-the-future guy
 
My earlier post contains a picture of a bridge.

Actually it is the supportive structure of the bridge. I thought it might look homey to you because trolls, like yourself, live beneath bridges.


Gentlemen we are forgetting a rule. the 14th commandment, "Thou shalt not feed the trolls" or subsection b: "use the flippin' ignore list".
 
Thanks yourself, Soupah, I think you were frank and honest. Don't stay away from all these threads- think about this- my impression of you, and I hope yours of me- has jumped well into the positive. Is this not the way friends are made? With a little fire sometimes?

Good things do happen.



munk
 
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