New Subforum: Hammer & Tongs

Spark

Spark

HPIC - Hatas gonna Hate
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Based off feedback in another thread, I've created a subforum for people to show WIP threads, ask questions, and do other stuff. I welcome suggestions & feedback for how the new forum should operate.

The new forum still operates off of the same site wide rules - if you want to advertise your work, you need to have a paid subscription to do so.
 
Can we have Fred's and Jason's threads moved here since that is what prompted the formation of this forum?
 
link them?
 
AS it stands now "hammer and tongs" vs "around the grinder" they have forging vs stock removal connotations.


Once you have the role of the subforums figured out, it would be good to apply very clear names and descriptions.


If this one is for WIP threads only, then some sort of specific name would be appropriate.
 
Thanks a bunch for adding this. I've been posting in a general wip thread I made, but I felt guilty every time I posted in it because it seemed like the forum was getting swamped with wip threads, but I didn't really know where else to put it.
 
Thanks for the new subforum. I agree with 1234567890 that the name is probably a bit misleading.

For what it's worth, I'd love to have a WIP only sub forum. We have a sticky for WIPs, just not as useful as a subforum would be. To be able to enter a subforum and browse all the WIPS you can handle would be a great resource.
 
I've got a headache this morning so maybe I'm not grasping exactly what you guys want here.

I understand a desire for a laissez-faire attitude to the Shop Talk area; I'm personally of the mindset that less moderation is better than more moderation.

At the same time, certain individuals were hell bent on breaking the rules and not supporting the site, no matter what.

I'm interested in constructive criticism and feedback. I'd like to see a community that is vibrant and robust. Here's the thing: I can't provide everything for everybody. I can't drag custom makers here to provide information, and if they aren't willing to come to me and tell me what changes they'd like to see, or they think need to be made, there's not much I can do. And when some individuals take the approach that they aren't going to work with the reasonable restrictions that we have in place, there isn't much I can do there either.

So, maybe you guys should come to a consensus as to what you'd like to see as a group, rather than me blindly guessing and hoping for the best.

Do you want a WIP subforum? Say so. Do you want specific areas set aside for restricted discussion? Say so. Do you think things need to be restructured? Say so and tell us how and your reasoning behind these changes.

Help me help you guys
 
Spark-


Thank you for taking the time to post and for trying to help! :) :thumbup:


I think what most of us want is pretty simple--- for Shop Talk to be a forum where folks can come to talk shop. That would include anything two or more guys/gals would bs about while in the shop. I think the easiest way to keep that, is just to tweak the rules a bit rather than start new sub-forums.

However, I can see where a sub-forum just for WIP (work in progress) threads could be beneficial. I think the good ones would stay near the top, or even be made stickies, and the crappy ones would fade off into the darkness. This would make it easy for folks to browse the WIP threads.

Personally, I don't see any benefit to having restricted areas. The "Around the Grinder" sub-forum makes sense as a place for people to post things like "here's my new car" but having it restricted to paid members doesn't make sense to me. It just keeps traffic down to the point that threads die off quickly. It sure doesn't offer me anything special as a paid member.

If a maker wants to sell here, then having a paid membership is obviously a must... but there are some super highly skilled makers that used to post information here that were chased off because they didn't have a paid membership. Those guys were some of the select makers that draw in makers and collectors that DO BUY MEMBERSHIPS. If you take all the best authors' works out of a book store, who's going to go there to buy books???


So in a nutshell (IMHO):

No restricted areas other than the sales area.

No sub-forums other than possibly doing a WIP forum.

Shop Talk to include all stuff that knife makers, collectors, and would be knife makers would talk about while in the shop or at a hammer-in (within reason of course).


Thanks Spark!!! :)
 
I agree with what Nick says about the restrictions of Around the Grinder, and having "Shop Talk" be a general open forum for "all" things related to making knives. However, I do think very strongly that we need more sub-forums. As I see it we need at-least 4, maybe 5.

1) and most important, a "Beginner's Area". Call it something nice, but we need a place to separate the 99% of posts that are new makers asking so many of the same questions. "Shop Talk" is super cluttered, and as much as experienced makers want to help, they aren't drawn to the constant repetitive discussion.

2) Forging and other hand work (Hammers & Tongs is a good one); For forging and hand techniques, and WIPs, etc.

3) Grinding, and other machine work; for grinding, stock removal, sawing, drilling, etc.. We get a lot of these conversations, it's relevant to everybody, and it doesn't segregate the stock removal or forging guys, but gives some categorization to the topics.

4) WIP only section: For detailed WIP's that encompass multiple aspects of knifemaking, all the full-featured start to finish WIPs here, short, specific task WIPs can be stickied in the relevant other forums.


5) Optional shoot-the-shit, tell jokes area, like "Around the Grinder" currently is: No need in restricting this, nobody cares enough about it to pay for a membership.

6) Optional: Fit & Finish; Finishing and embellishment techniques, a big area that we're all concerned with in our knives.


IMHO all these should live under "Shop Talk" which should be for just "General talking Shop" as Nick described. Questions about the biz, suppliers, materials, whatever doesn't fall under other categories.




Bladeforums is a great resource, but compared to other venues, it's currently lacking in organization. I don't think it's as much of an intense desire to break the rules on the parts of some people (yes I know some just like to stir it), as much as rejecting the chaos. There's a lot more of a learning curve here than other places that are more well organized. I say that entirely from a desire to be constructive, not critical. Hope it's taken as such.
 
NickWheeler said:
Spark-


Thank you for taking the time to post and for trying to help! :) :thumbup:


I think what most of us want is pretty simple--- for Shop Talk to be a forum where folks can come to talk shop. That would include anything two or more guys/gals would bs about while in the shop. I think the easiest way to keep that, is just to tweak the rules a bit rather than start new sub-forums.

However, I can see where a sub-forum just for WIP (work in progress) threads could be beneficial. I think the good ones would stay near the top, or even be made stickies, and the crappy ones would fade off into the darkness. This would make it easy for folks to browse the WIP threads.

Personally, I don't see any benefit to having restricted areas. The "Around the Grinder" sub-forum makes sense as a place for people to post things like "here's my new car" but having it restricted to paid members doesn't make sense to me. It just keeps traffic down to the point that threads die off quickly. It sure doesn't offer me anything special as a paid member.

If a maker wants to sell here, then having a paid membership is obviously a must... but there are some super highly skilled makers that used to post information here that were chased off because they didn't have a paid membership. Those guys were some of the select makers that draw in makers and collectors that DO BUY MEMBERSHIPS. If you take all the best authors' works out of a book store, who's going to go there to buy books???


So in a nutshell (IMHO):

No restricted areas other than the sales area.

No sub-forums other than possibly doing a WIP forum.

Shop Talk to include all stuff that knife makers, collectors, and would be knife makers would talk about while in the shop or at a hammer-in (within reason of course).


Thanks Spark!!! :)
Click to expand...

Absolutely correct

Plus clear labelling so posters and mods know where stuff goes
 
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I agree that Nick hit the nail on the head, and I think that's how most people probably feel. I hate complaining because I don't envy your position spark, or that of the mods, but I think these could be very beneficial changes. A dedicated WIP section would be awesome, and a bit more open discussion in shop talk. I don't mean "hey what do you think of my truck" but more so the knife related topics like the collaborations and such. I understand I am currently not a paying member so my opinion matters little, but I just wanted to say I agree with nick
 
Sooooooo what exactly are we permitted to post in each of these three sub-forums?
 
I agree with Nick about shop talk. Also it's a great idea to have a WIP sub forum. Like Nick said, the good ones would stay at the top and rest fall off the page. I do get tired of sorting through all the "first knife wip" and repetitive questions that a simple search would answer to find the good threads.
 
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Posted an extended opinion on the other thread... but I'd like to see Shop Talk as the place to post all things knifemaking. Tools, materials, techniques/processes, business, or whatever, so long as it is tied to the craft. Splitting that not only fragments the community, but it also creates confusion.

I like the Around the Grinder section... it seems the only thing it really lacks is activity. I think (hope) getting rid of the paid membership requirement would help with that. I wouldn't mind Hammer and Forge (by that name or another) being a dedicated WIP section. I like reading through WIPs, so I wouldn't mind having a place to go simply to view them. I know others enjoy the same. Sticky the really good ones.

I hesitate to say there should be a dedicated "beginners" section for a couple of reasons. For one, the people who sign up to post "new maker, help me get started" type posts already aren't the type who search and find/read things on their own... do you really think they'll find their way into the proper subforum? Second, it creates another grey area. Where do you draw the line for what is a beginner question and what's not? Now, a new member or introduction area may not be a bad idea so people have an idea of who's who. Maybe move the stickies there or create some more with big bold "NEW MAKERS READ HERE BEFORE POSTING" or "MATERIALS SUPPLIERS LIST" type things.

Regardless, letting the forum self moderate itself is ideal in my opinion. Popular topics will stay relevant and towards the top, unpopular ones will fall off quickly. The only things that should be moved or moderated are the ones that are obvious to all that they're in the wrong place or unnecessary.
 
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