new superstainless zdp-189 rc 67

gine

gine

Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Messages
1,169
zdp-189 is the new supersteel from what i've heard so far. It can be hardened to rockwell 67 without being brittle, and take a killer edge and great edge retention a big upgrade from vg-10 even!!!
 
gine said:
zdp-189 is the new supersteel from what i've heard so far. It can be hardened to rockwell 67 without being brittle, and take a killer edge and great edge retention a big upgrade from vg-10 even!!!
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It does take a killer edge, and it holds it for a very long time.

It pits....rather badly. I have a heck of a time working with it on belts....you have to make sure it stays very cool.

It is very good material, but it is not the holy grail of steel.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
i think part of the big problems with availability of this steel is that Hitachi (who makes it) wont release it so the only companies that use it have factories in Japan.

Yuna doesnt actually do the laminating himself Hitachi does it.
 
delkhouri said:
i think part of the big problems with availability of this steel is that Hitachi (who makes it) wont release it so the only companies that use it have factories in Japan.

Yuna doesnt actually do the laminating himself Hitachi does it.
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I'm certainly no expert on the matter, but I've infered that Hitachi isn't really able to produce enough to "release" elsewhere. This inference is based on Sal of Spyderco stating the long wait times for the steel.
 
delkhouri said:
i think part of the big problems with availability of this steel is that Hitachi (who makes it) wont release it so the only companies that use it have factories in Japan.
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Here it is, free to buy (set encoding to Japanese):

http://www.hatta.co.jp/price.html

However, when I e-mail this guy, he suggested me first learn Japanese - nice people you may find everywhere...

I think this myth abut ZDP-189 being unavalable is luck of right contact in Japan. W&H had to buy knives regrind them and send back to Japan for HT (which is same as for ATS34). I think their supplier just take advantage of the fact that they do not have anybody in Japan... So finally customers had to pay for this. But in Japan you may easy order it ower web... If you learn Japanese... Like my friend Anton from Tokyo - he send me ZDP-189 blank, without any problems.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I rusts like no other steel I've used. In a laminate it will still rust- and right where you least want it- on the edge. For those who work or play in or around the water, this is probably not the steel for you.

Don't believe me? Get your knife wet, and put it in a warm dark place for 12 hours. That's all it takes.
 
I agree with all of you. It will pit slightly after all it is hardened past rc 64. It will rust more then the average stainless because it has a very high carbon content.It will be hard to sharpen most likely.But for most people that use folding knives for what they are disigned for will I think be happy with zdp-189 even more so then cpm-s30v.cpm-s30v is the american answer to vg-10 and zpd-189 is the japanese answer to s30v.
 
Patapsco Mike said:
I rusts like no other steel I've used. In a laminate it will still rust- and right where you least want it- on the edge. For those who work or play in or around the water, this is probably not the steel for you.

Don't believe me? Get your knife wet, and put it in a warm dark place for 12 hours. That's all it takes.
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Well, same for all high carboon stainless! This scenario will affect ATS34, 440C, CPM S30V etc. And of course D2. To be 100% proof use beta Titanium or H1 or X15N. So I doubt that this is argument against ZDP189 - all premium steel are not rust proof, especially in salt water.

ZDP189 has 3% C which is more then in Iron Cast, but it also has 20% Cr - more then enough to create protective layer from casual rust, but if you will keep it 12 hours wet... This is common sence for all steel not ZDP189, wipe you blade after it was in the water.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
gine said:
I agree with all of you. It will pit slightly after all it is hardened past rc 64. It will rust more then the average stainless because it has a very high carbon content.It will be hard to sharpen most likely.But for most people that use folding knives for what they are disigned for will I think be happy with zdp-189 even more so then cpm-s30v.cpm-s30v is the american answer to vg-10 and zpd-189 is the japanese answer to s30v.
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CPM S30V was American answer on CPM 440V which manufacturers deny to use because it is too good - check wear resistance it is 8 times less then CPM 440V so they save a lot on grinder supply. In this terms CPM S30V is worse what Crucible may offer and was made this way intentionaly for cuttlery industry. Of course this require heavy marketing, but in real CPM S30V far from super steel.

American metallurgy Crucible has steels better then ZDP189, like CPM S125V - but American knife manufacturers refuse to make knives out of it, because it is too good.

Japanese knife manufacturers have different business ethic and they do process ZDP189 even it is more wear resistant.

I think Crucible should start making laminated blades with supersteel in core and soft layers.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
But isn't the point of stainless being that it doesn't rust as easily as tool steels? Many tool steels can be ran that hard, and be tougher, but most folks got away from them due to rusting. Isn't a stainless that keeps a crazy edge but rusts really quickly kinda like just going full circle? Why not just stick with tool steels if thats the case, as some are much cheaper and more accessible?!
 
samhain73 said:
But isn't the point of stainless being that it doesn't rust as easily as tool steels? Many tool steels can be ran that hard, and be tougher, but most folks got away from them due to rusting. Isn't a stainless that keeps a crazy edge but rusts really quickly kinda like just going full circle? Why not just stick with tool steels if thats the case, as some are much cheaper and more accessible?!
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Definition of stainless has nothing to do with rusting, if it is more then 17% of Cr, then it can be labeled as a stainless. This lead to confusion, however it is stainLESS not stainPROOF. There is H1 steel which does not rust (to some extent).

But if you compare this stainless with A2 for example, which rust almost instantly, you may notice difference.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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