NEW TYRADE IS HERE thread!!!!

Ionbond said:
Kneedeep,

I would like to have a private discussion with Thomas before I start to elaborate on the process. This is not something that Ionbond does or offers, the only thing Ionbond is involved with is the coating of the titanium handles.

I covered three different ways to achive the bonding of the composite blade method. This was the most productive and cost effective way for production knives.

Darrell
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do you do work for Kershaw?
 
Oregonedge,

No I don't work for Kershaw, but work with them on certain projects... 2005 The Offset Metal Injected Blade, and 2007 the Composite Blade..

Along with most of the coating they use.

Darrell
 
Ionbond said:
Oregonedge,

No I don't work for Kershaw, but work with them on certain projects... 2005 The Offset Metal Injected Blade, and 2007 the Composite Blade..

Along with most of the coating they use.

Darrell
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Definitely some knives to be proud of! :thumbup:

Coatings too! One of my favorite comments from Tim was when someone was complaining about scratches in the coating of (I believe) a Ti/ZDP Mini-Cyclone that turned up after cutting an aluminum can in half. Tim said that the scratches were more likely aluminum deposited on the coating by the can. The owner of the knife was pretty amazed that Tim turned out to be right.
 
Thomas, once again congratulations on the completion of another project that sets the bar just a bit higher in the very competetive production knife world. Kershaw has been making other companies look like they are spinning their tires for awhile now.We, the consumers have just moved past "serrated or plain edge", and "Tanto or clip blade". Now we can have different steel for different purposes on the same blade. Fine grained, stable edge steels cohabitating on the same blade with, as Thom puts it, Steel with those" large, devil worshipping vanadium carbides" that make steel pure wear resistance but not good as very thin, fine slicing knives due to chipping, or carbide tear out. This is more than just a cool looking new knife for sure.

I'd bet there are more than a few knife companies sending out for this knife. It'll have people paying attention.

Hopefully I can get one before they sell out. BTW, The next shipment should go out when? Thanks again Thomas! Joe
 
I agree with Mastiff on the kudos.He brings up a good point about other knife companies,I wonder how long it is before we see a Chinese knockoff possibly 440A steel; aluminum bonded with 440??.:cool:
 
ice-pic said:
I agree with Mastiff on the kudos.He brings up a good point about other knife companies,I wonder how long it is before we see a Chinese knockoff possibly 440A steel; aluminum bonded with 440??.:cool:
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ha! a 440A spine with an Aus8 cutting edge? maybe that's too nice
 
The Mastiff said:
I'd bet there are more than a few knife companies sending out for this knife. It'll have people paying attention.
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Well I have said this on more than one occasion, but any industry is going to have leaders and then there will be the followers.

Kai USA/Kershaw Knives is one of those leaders. We try regularly to introduce new technologies, and continue to look ahead in blazing our own trail.

New innovation is tricky, you protect your investment the best you can, and then you go to work. Now the imports never play by the rules, others try to loophole and lawyer their way, and then there are a few that actually do the right thing. There are businesses and individuals alike that care about this word called integrity, and they have actual ethics for patents and intellectual property. For others, it is just business as usual, and doing the right thing gets in the way of business.

In a way this is all good for the ELU (Sal coined this phrase btw, I am negotiating an agreement with him for every time I use it ;)) because it pushes the leaders to continually advance R&D and again develop technology that hopefully gets noticed by the consumer, and once more further distances themselves from the followers. You patent your hard work and immediately start working toward the next thing. Of course you have to be strong enough to stand up for your patents or they end up being worth little. That is all you can really do.
Hell many followers have been more successful than the leader who brought an idea to the table.

This industry has seen leaders get abused and copied regularly whether it is by the no names or even the brand names. Sitting back waiting for the others to come up with the "next" thing puts leaders in a venerable state in my eyes, but we realize it is the way it is even in our small world.
There are many within the industry that probably wouldn't be excited to see me write these words, but eating our own is no way for a cottage industry to conduct themselves IMO.

Composite blades bring on a combination of two steels that assist in function, are esthetically diverse, and can also lower the price vs. performance hurdle for the customer. Yes we do have this all patented, and have plans to expand our offerings after the Tyrade.

Now on to the next thing.

Thanks for the kudos Joe.
 
I dunno...Kershaw has set the bar so high with the Tyrade, that I can't see how it could be topped by any knife company other than Kershaw itself.
 
glockman99 said:
I dunno...Kershaw has set the bar so high with the Tyrade, that I can't see how it could be topped by any knife company other than Kershaw itself.
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You're right.
I don't see how another company could come out with a composite blade
knife and not be coined as the company that ripped-off Kershaw's design.

I still browse/buy other brands, but KAI/Kershaw always seems to come
up with something out of the blue that no one has even tried to tackle.

Good Job! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

mike
 
I may be wrong, but I seem to think that there have been other composite blades out there for a few years.

MCUSTA, William Henry, A.G. Russell just to name a few. Take a look at this A.G. Russell offering:

http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_...knives/a_g_russell_4_drop_point_lockback.html

That hit the streets before the Tyrade did.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kershaw's innovation with this knife HOW the blade was made and not that it's just a composite? Or am I confusing composites and laminates?
 
Incidentalist said:
I may be wrong, but I seem to think that there have been other composite blades out there for a few years.

MCUSTA, William Henry, A.G. Russell just to name a few. Take a look at this A.G. Russell offering:

http://www.agrussell.com/knives/by_...knives/a_g_russell_4_drop_point_lockback.html

That hit the streets before the Tyrade did.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Kershaw's innovation with this knife HOW the blade was made and not that it's just a composite? Or am I confusing composites and laminates?
Click to expand...

You are confusing composite blades with laminated blades, at least in the way Kershaw is defining a composite blade.

Laminated blades are basically a sandwich of steels, a core steel with properties appropriate for a cutting edge, jacketed by two other (usually softer) sheets of steel. The line you see on the blade is just the place where the jacket steels have been ground away. Kershaw currently has two knives that I can think of that use this construction, the SG2 Blur and the Ti/SG2 JYD II (pictures coming soon, btw :)). Technically these blades can be considered composites in the sense that they are constructed of at least two different materials. This construction is something like plywood.

The term composite blade when referring to the Tyrade means that the line you see is the place where the two different pieces of steel are welded together; that line goes through the blade from side to side. The spine of the blade is one steel and the edge is another. The construction of this blade would be like laying two flat boards side by side and gluing the edges together, additionally imagine that you cut dovetails or puzzle patterns into the edges of the wood before gluing. Besides additional surface area for bonding, you get additional mechanical strength from the pieces fitting together.

Here are links to threads with more info.
Composite Blade Intro
Wire Electrical Discharge Machining (How the Tyrade blades are cut)
 
Thanks for the clarification.

I did notice that the pictures in this thread of the blade spine was clearly one piece of steel.

So then, what are the advantages of composite vs. laminate. Is it clearly esthetics, as it would appear (to a layman) that the laminate would be stronger (in regards to the cutting steel being the core of the entire blade as opposed to being a much smaller piece welded to the bulk of the blade)?
 
Incidentalist said:
So then, what are the advantages of composite vs. laminate. Is it clearly esthetics, as it would appear (to a layman) that the laminate would be stronger (in regards to the cutting steel being the core of the entire blade as opposed to being a much smaller piece welded to the bulk of the blade)?
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The primary advantage will be cost. The Tyrade is a showcase of the Technology so it isn't the best example of the cost benefits, but the idea is that Kershaw will be able to use a very small piece of a very high end steel, married to a more economical spine. Using a laminate would require a piece of edge steel about three times as wide.

The ELU (thanks to Sal) will be able to purchase a knife with an exotic edge steel at a price not much higher than the more common steels.

As they experiment more with pairings more benefits will probably turn up.
 
One thing that has been going through my mind... (not that it's that critical)... is whether this is actually a greater innovative step than the offset demonstrated. For those in the know (there are threads with pictures), the MIM process to make the Offset's blade is pretty remarkable... almost hard to imagine at its price point. Anyone else have an opinion on this?
 
OregonEdge said:
One thing that has been going through my mind... (not that it's that critical)... is whether this is actually a greater innovative step than the offset demonstrated. For those in the know (there are threads with pictures), the MIM process to make the Offset's blade is pretty remarkable... almost hard to imagine at its price point. Anyone else have an opinion on this?
Click to expand...

OregonEdge,

Think about a MIM Metal Injected Molded Composite Blade:jerkit:

This can be done by molding two sets of parts out of different Powders and Sinter, Hip Clading the two materials together.. :D

Darrell
 
Ionbond said:
OregonEdge,

Think about a MIM Metal Injected Molded Composite Blade:jerkit:

This can be done by molding two sets of parts out of different Powders and Sinter, Hip Clading the two materials together.. :D

Darrell
Click to expand...

all it's missing at that point is a beverage holder :p
 
Ionbond said:
OregonEdge,

Think about a MIM Metal Injected Molded Composite Blade:jerkit:

This can be done by molding two sets of parts out of different Powders and Sinter, Hip Clading the two materials together.. :D

Darrell
Click to expand...

Wouldn't there be an issue with differing amounts of shrinkage during the HIP'ing of the two different metals? Or maybe the join could be wire EDM'd from the HIP'd pieces?

If it were possible, the potential shapes and materials would be amazing.
 
seems like the densities (tied to shrinkage) could be controlled?. But at the end of the process, could 2 different metals having different densities (in order to be equal in size) play together for heat treatment etc? and fit together? I only know enough to make uneducated assumptions... great food for thought. seems like if you started with 2 different metals, the 2 different metal "pellets" would have 2 different densities? If that's the case, it would seem like they would combine to create different sized green parts, requiring different shrinkage to end up where they equal each other in size. hmm
 
I see starting with molding the first small cutting edge part and then inserting this into the second mold while in the "Green State", Blend the powders for the spline and Mim the two together. All MIM parts are made about 28 % oversized to allow for Srinkage. During the Sintering process the two materials shrink and should fuse becoming one. The densities of the two materials should be similar at about 95%-98% and then after Hipping/Clading should be at 100. This Blade could be called the "MIM-POSITE":thumbup:

Back about five years ago I had work on a project with the late Rob Simonich to Hip-Clad two materials, Talonite and Titanium into a sandwich and produce a knife.

If I have time today I'll post a picture of the only knife ever made by Rob using the Hip-Cladded Talonite/Titanium
material.


Darrell
 
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