New US Ban on Sale of Elephant Ivory

"The core information that collectors and makers need to know" will likely be evolving over the next year, so locking a thread that can't be queried is not a very good idea, IMHO. Why not just SWAT anyone who gets political!
 
"The core information that collectors and makers need to know" will likely be evolving over the next year, so locking a thread that can't be queried is not a very good idea, IMHO. Why not just SWAT anyone who gets political!

I've contacted a moderator about this who told me to report the thread.
Personally, I'd like for everyone who wants to weigh in with their politics to keep it in their pants, but you guys should know better and I think I'll just go back to minding my own business. I just hope this doesn't set a precedent for folks to start going off elsewhere in this forum.
 
Thanks for sharing this information, I knew it was coming but did not know specifics or when.
 
"The core information that collectors and makers need to know" will likely be evolving over the next year, so locking a thread that can't be queried is not a very good idea, IMHO. Why not just SWAT anyone who gets political!

Agree!

Next question: What does this do to ivory handled knife values from now until June? Do they increase because this is the buyer's last opportunity or do they decrease because buyers think they will be stuck with the knife forever?
 
There is an organized effort to minimize the use of plant and animal products. Here are a few recent examples:

1) Enforcing the ban on desert ironwood
2) Rewriting the Lacey Act
3) Rule changes regarding elephant ivory

We have been hearing about the changes for years. This is why we got out of the ancient ivory business seven months ago.

There are more changes in work. This has nothing to do with political parties. The people who are pushing the agenda are in both parties.

All the changes listed above did little or nothing to improve the perceived problems. They do/did make people feel like they are doing something. Trying to win an argument with facts vs feelings is always difficult for the side with the facts.

Chuck
 
At this point, I'd suggest that this thread disappear, and that the core information that collectors and makers need to know be stickied in a locked thread.
I totally disagree with your suggestion.

Many collectors have taken a financial hit with this change. Educating collectors has the potential to minimize the financial losses.
 
This actually may not change much, if you have not been documenting where your ivory came from, you probably should have. I think now you will have to. We will have to see.
 
This actually may not change much, if you have not been documenting where your ivory came from, you probably should have. I think now you will have to. We will have to see.

Mark, I would argue that the majority of lower-48 makers and collectors do not have their elephant ivory material papered. So I think things, for most people, will change, perhaps considerably - as feds and states scour the internet for "ivory" sales and go into enforcement mode. Remember, it's also a source of government income.
 
Mark, I would argue that the majority of lower-48 makers and collectors do not have their elephant ivory material papered. So I think things, for most people, will change, perhaps considerably - as feds and states scour the internet for "ivory" sales and go into enforcement mode. Remember, it's also a source of government income.

As I said in an earlier post in this thread, it all depends on what the USF&W service comes out with. it depends on what you will have to do to demonstrate that your ivory complies. In some cases its not hard to do, for pre-ban walrus ivory it's pretty easy to satisfy F&W concerns.
 
It would be a real shame if this thread got locked or tucked away somewhere, we need to be able to talk about this.
 
As I said in an earlier post in this thread, it all depends on what the USF&W service comes out with. it depends on what you will have to do to demonstrate that your ivory complies. In some cases its not hard to do, for pre-ban walrus ivory it's pretty easy to satisfy F&W concerns.

It will also depend on to whom compliance (and therefore in what form that document compliance) must be proven. It was never clear whether that would reside with states with respect to the 1990 African/1975 Asian "within state" rule. It will really be a bad thing of every state jurisdiction is tied into enforcement of that part. In any case, those who have papered their transactions should be in a much better place than those who haven't.
 
It will also depend on to whom compliance (and therefore in what form that document compliance) must be proven. It was never clear whether that would reside with states with respect to the 1990 African/1975 Asian "within state" rule. It will really be a bad thing of every state jurisdiction is tied into enforcement of that part.

I assume (maybe a mistake) it will be a Fed. thing. I think it has to be.
 
It would be a real shame if this thread got locked or tucked away somewhere, we need to be able to talk about this.

Yeah, Mark, this is a biggie a far as I am concerned, relative to it's impact on our passion for knives, and for those of you who are in the business of knives even moreso.
 
I am concerned that when Fish & Wildlife inspectors start to confiscate preban Elephant ivory, that they will also try to scoop up ancient Walrus & Mammoth and maker the owners prove that it is not Elephant. Some of the inspectors might not know the differences between the various ivories.
 
I am concerned that when Fish & Wildlife inspectors start to confiscate preban Elephant ivory, that they will also try to scoop up ancient Walrus & Mammoth and maker the owners prove that it is not Elephant. Some of the inspectors might not know the differences between the various ivories.

Jim, I share your concern. I've heard stories from agents that most cannot absolutely distinguish differences sufficient to be provable in court, and therefore they tend to, at least temporarily, confiscate for lab testing.
 
jjtjr, you are right. Many times it left to the discretion of the inspector at customs. Ask Sfreddo. TSA has the same freedom to change the rules.
Gary
 
I totally disagree with your suggestion.

Many collectors have taken a financial hit with this change. Educating collectors has the potential to minimize the financial losses.

It would be a real shame if this thread got locked or tucked away somewhere, we need to be able to talk about this.

Yeah, Mark, this is a biggie a far as I am concerned, relative to it's impact on our passion for knives, and for those of you who are in the business of knives even moreso.
+1 on all three of these posts ! :thumbup:

Doug
 
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