New US Ban on Sale of Elephant Ivory

Wow, there is a lot to digest in this alarming, yet relevant thread.

Crazily, I was on the phone with an inspector from the F&WS two days ago, going over their rules. I have a client who attempted to send me a knife from Sweden, and it was just confiscated. Fortunately, it was stated very clearly on the Customs form it was only going to me for photography. This may save the piece, but the outcome still hasn't been determined. We are both to get a letter in a couple of days.

What I have been asked to do, is to register as an 'Importer' for these items from out of the country (we discussed that I am not purchasing them, but they submit I have a commercial interest and profit from the knives, even only as a photographer, which qualifies me to be licensed.) That said, the licensing is not out of control to procure. It's another method to maintain a paper trail.

Another point: In conversation with him, he pointed out that walrus ivory was highly suspicious and targeted. He did not mention this new status or law, but the radar is out there for even walrus.

I'm going to return and read more. Uggh.

Coop
 
I find all of this alarming, disturbing, and a real pain in general.
Especially as one poster pointed out-it hasn't seemed to affect the problem whatsoever-YET the burden of proof has shifted to US.

What a load of elephant dung.

I appreciate all for posting and sharing so that I could read (and learn) along.
 
hardingknives said:
I find this very interesting and alarming as I have a 300.00 piece of walrus waiting on a blade , mark do you have anything proving what you have is artifact? I just can't believe they would go after artifact material
Click to expand...

As Bob said, this doesn't affect walrus ivory, and certainly ancient walrus ivory, the color of it alone proves it pre-dates any ban. It just has to be dug up by an Alaska Native, and I can prove that. My concern is that people are getting un-necessaryly alarmed.
 
Just wanting to play it safe mark, you're my ivory guy and I trust your sales, just don't want to lose an investment.
 
It's a complicated thing, most problems with walrus ivory involve shipping it overseas without a CITES permit or buying white ivory without knowing it's origin.

With elephant you can't import or export it but the rest is the same you need to know it's origin, it's been that way for a long time. Now, it appears you will have to prove you know it's origin. We have to wait and see what comes out of this.

The good news is, we can have a say in what happens, if we care enough. I believe we already did, in that, this ban was originally supposed to include all ivory. It doesn't.
 
That's a real shame

I am upset that I will not be seeing any more new ivory handled Whites :(

Misguided solutions are never really solutions to the problem are they....... Very sad
 
Mark,

I have purchased a few sets of interior mammoth ivory from you that looks a lot like elephant ivory. No bark or color just creamy ivory. Do you think the F&WS agents will be knowledgeable enough to determine the species the ivory came from?

I don't want to put a knife on my table at a knife show and take a chance of having it confiscated until I can prove the age of the ivory.

Take care

Charles
 
SharpByCoop said:
Wow, there is a lot to digest in this alarming, yet relevant thread.

Crazily, I was on the phone with an inspector from the F&WS two days ago, going over their rules. I have a client who attempted to send me a knife from Sweden, and it was just confiscated. Fortunately, it was stated very clearly on the Customs form it was only going to me for photography. This may save the piece, but the outcome still hasn't been determined. We are both to get a letter in a couple of days.

What I have been asked to do, is to register as an 'Importer' for these items from out of the country (we discussed that I am not purchasing them, but they submit I have a commercial interest and profit from the knives, even only as a photographer, which qualifies me to be licensed.) That said, the licensing is not out of control to procure. It's another method to maintain a paper trail.

Another point: In conversation with him, he pointed out that walrus ivory was highly suspicious and targeted. He did not mention this new status or law, but the radar is out there for even walrus.

I'm going to return and read more. Uggh.

Coop
Click to expand...

This is concerning to me. I bought two elephant ivory Randall's from Rick Bowles this past Fall, with the understanding that I would send them back to him for Scrim when his schedule permits this summer. I exchanged emails with him today about whether I can still send them across state lines for Scrimshaw, similar to your accepting them for photography. He doesn't yet know the answer. Neither do I. These are Pre-ban from a verifiable source, but I don't have cert to that effect, although I'm working on that now through Rick.

Thanks to all who have posted info on this.
 
Charles Vestal said:
I have purchased a few sets of interior mammoth ivory from you that looks a lot like elephant ivory. No bark or color just creamy ivory. Do you think the F&WS agents will be knowledgeable enough to determine the species the ivory came from?
Click to expand...
The last time we tried to ship mammoth ivory out of the country was terrible. We were shipping mammoth bark scales with lots of color and clearly seen cross hatching. The agent did not know the difference between mammoth and elephant. She was very belligerent and said we had to prove it was mammoth before she would sign off. No matter what we said she would not believe the scales were mammoth. We let without shipping the package.

My confidence level that all or most agents know the difference is zero.

Chuck
 
Charles Vestal said:
Mark,

I have purchased a few sets of interior mammoth ivory from you that looks a lot like elephant ivory. No bark or color just creamy ivory. Do you think the F&WS agents will be knowledgeable enough to determine the species the ivory came from?

I don't want to put a knife on my table at a knife show and take a chance of having it confiscated until I can prove the age of the ivory.

Take care

Charles
Click to expand...

It is done by measuring the angle of the cross hatching, if I were you, I would look it up, there is quite a bit of info about it on the internet, so that you can speak knowledgeably about it. Also, I can look up our transaction and send you a copy of your reciept if you no longer have it. That should be enough.
 
mwschilling said:
This is concerning to me. I bought two elephant ivory Randall's from Rick Bowles this past Fall, with the understanding that I would send them back to him for Scrim when his schedule permits this summer. I exchanged emails with him today about whether I can still send them across state lines for Scrimshaw, similar to your accepting them for photography. He doesn't yet know the answer. Neither do I. These are Pre-ban from a verifiable source, but I don't have cert to that effect, although I'm working on that now through Rick.

Thanks to all who have posted info on this.
Click to expand...

That documentation from Rick should be all you need, I would think he would have no problem getting it for you.
 
Last edited:
Alpha Knife Supply said:
The last time we tried to ship mammoth ivory out of the country was terrible. We were shipping mammoth bark scales with lots of color and clearly seen cross hatching. The agent did not know the difference between mammoth and elephant. She was very belligerent and said we had to prove it was mammoth before she would sign off. No matter what we said she would not believe the scales were mammoth. We let without shipping the package.

My confidence level that all or most agents know the difference is zero.

Chuck
Click to expand...

I would have thought that would be the time to ask for her supervisor. I should say here that I don't pretend to know all the answers. One thing I do know is, if you ever have anything taken from you, (assuming you have not done anything wrong) get a receipt for what was taken. It should have the number of pieces taken, total weight, a complete description of the item/s, the time, date and location as well as the name, badge number and the signature of the agent doing the confiscation. Don't lose your cool, be polite and answer all of their questions. (again assuming you are doing everything right) I have had things taken from me and so far, have gotten most of them back. The only time I didn't was when I failed to do something correctly, I was not trying to pull something, I only did not follow directions carefully enough. Also, I am not afraid to ask a lawyer to check regulations for me, it has cost me some money but I generally try to have a grasp on things before I enter into unknown territory. Sometimes, as we have heard, the authorities don't always know what is legal and what is not.
 
Mark Knapp said:
It is done by measuring the angle of the cross hatching, if I were you, I would look it up, there is quite a bit of info about it on the internet, so that you can speak knowledgeably about it. Also, I can look up our transaction and send you a copy of your reciept if you no longer have it. That should be enough.
Click to expand...

These are called the Schreger lines (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schreger_line) and there is a very noticable distinction between elephant and mammoth. It would be wise to add this information if you ship interior mammoth ivory to a client; whether it be in the US or overseas.

Marcel
 
How do we discuss a political decision made by politicians based on politics without stating our veiws?

The bottom line is we can't, someone with opposing politics will be offended!

That my friends will not be tolerated!

End of argument, zero discussion allowed!



Greg
 
When it comes to future cost of ivory, per a BBC story this morning, Chinese and some other cultures are purchasing more ivory as investments. Due to new international restrictions and increased enforcement, they expect ivory to become scarce and thus more expensive leading to an investment opportunity. The BBC program showed an undercover reporter being offered illegal ivory pieces in two different shops in Asian and illegal ivory items for sale in African countries. The show also discussed fraudulent paperwork used to trick the consumer into thinking it is legal. Use in western art was not discussed.
 
Last edited:
G. Shahan said:
How do we discuss a political decision made by politicians based on politics without stating our veiws?

The bottom line is we can't, someone with opposing politics will be offended!

That my friends will not be tolerated!

End of argument, zero discussion allowed!



Greg
Click to expand...

You can certainly discuss government action as a result of activist pressure. We don't need to sling insults at individual politicians simply because we identify with another faction.
That's what the restriction on political comments is about.

Anything else? Take it to the Political Arena, lots of room for discussion there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top