New ZT Construction

I find it interesting this type of set up is bothersome on this knife but yet did not bother anyone on the 450 or 450CF. Or at least not enough to make it a topic on the forums that I saw.

I have a hard time believing that ZT decided to cut corners here. They went top of the line on everything with this knife I doubt they would try to save a buck or 2 on what is their premium production knife to day. Just my 2 cents.
 
stabman said:
If you had done so, you would realize the silliness of thinking it is a cost or time saving move. ;)

Steel and aluminum are both WAY easier to machine.

I hated working in machining, but I did it long enough to learn how annoying certain materials are to work with.
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I didn't say tapping ti was a cost saving move. And you can shove your 'silly.' ;)

What I said was cost-saving is the entire re-design we're discussing here. It involves many things, not just the tapping you're shooting posts on like a wild man.

Breathe....listen to me....

They save screws (presumably HARDENED screws--more expensive).....they don't have to tap standoffs (is tapping a standoff any easier/less costly than tapping into a ti bar?) making assembly slightly easier as the screws will now shoot through the standoff instead of each having to be thread-aligned x 2 sides....and probably various other manufacturing vagaries with which I'm not familiar.

Also, IMO the change did nothing positive for the appearance of the knife as I described above.

When such a change is made resulting in something appearing less attractive and unfinished appearing than it originally was, I tend to think they are shaving costs of production.

I don't own the knife, just going by what I've seen and read here. Could I be wrong? Sure.
 
whitty said:
I find it interesting this type of set up is bothersome on this knife but yet did not bother anyone on the 450 or 450CF. Or at least not enough to make it a topic on the forums that I saw.

I have a hard time believing that ZT decided to cut corners here. They went top of the line on everything with this knife I doubt they would try to save a buck or 2 on what is their premium production knife to day. Just my 2 cents.
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I never saw the other knives, just what I'm seeing here. I never knew of the issue until I read this thread. I checked out from ZT when the new lineup came out.

You may well be right. But let me ask, do you feel like it lessened the physical appearance of the knife overall?
 
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Looks are subjective.
Other folks will think it looks better; gives a more minimalist feel to it.
They would be no more wrong nor correct than those that don't like the look, because looks are entirely subjective.
 
stabman said:
Shove it where?
Inquiring minds want to know!
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See if it'll fit in those ugly screw holes on that once-lovely knife we're talking about.

...smooth it off with a screwdriver blade and you might have an attractive knife again if your silly is the same color.
 
EChoil said:
See if it'll fit in those ugly screw holes on that once-lovely knife we're talking about.

...smooth it off with a screwdriver blade and you might have an attractive knife again if your silly is the same color.
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I don't think the knife that started the thread looks good anyway.
It doesn't look horrible--and it has nothing at all to do with how it's held together--I just don't like it.

You seem to be feeling the issue with far more emotional depth than I can manage at the moment, especially since I don't have a preference for either fastening method.
Hopefully you can find a knife that will make you happy...perhaps just don't look at the ZT page of new knives for a while.
 
And now here's a French-speaking pineapple...because why not.

[video=youtube;C-0PKLEGEy0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-0PKLEGEy0[/video]
 
Regardless of possible production cost differences, maintenance costs will be significantly higher in a stripped thread situation with a threaded lockside vs. threaded spacers.

How does the ZT warranty cover disassembled knives? It's been a long time since I looked at it. If it's covered whether you've disassembled the knife or not, no big deal. The replacement cost will be borne by KAI.
 
stabman said:
......You seem to be feeling the issue with far more emotional depth than I can manage at the moment, especially since I don't have a preference for either fastening method.
Hopefully you can find a knife that will make you happy...perhaps just don't look at the ZT page of new knives for a while.
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Actually, I thought you were managing it up quite well...I just think the knife would look better with traditional construction.
 
Hackenslash said:
Regardless of possible production cost differences, maintenance costs will be significantly higher in a stripped thread situation with a threaded lockside vs. threaded spacers.

How does the ZT warranty cover disassembled knives? It's been a long time since I looked at it. If it's covered whether you've disassembled the knife or not, no big deal. The replacement cost will be borne by KAI.
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Last I dealt with them they didn't want you to disassemble the knife but they'd usually handle problems anyway....that type thing. Not sure how strict they are now.
 
EChoil said:
Actually, I thought you were managing it up quite well...I just think the knife would look better with traditional construction.
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Which, you may note, I already said is a perfectly valid opinion, as it is about looks, and looks are subjective. :)

As for traditional, I found the tapped into the lock-side to be equally "traditional", based on the frame-locks I have bought over the years.
In fact, I thought it odd the first time I came across one that DIDN'T have that construction!

Unfortunately, the talking pineapple never did manage to teach me French though, no matter how often they forced us to watch it during elementary school. :D
 
EChoil said:
Last I dealt with them they didn't want you to disassemble the knife but they'd usually handle problems anyway....that type thing. Not sure how strict they are now.
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Yeah, I just got off my butt and went and looked at it: "The Limited Lifetime Warranty is non-transferable and does not extend to normal signs of wear, rust, damage or breakage due to improper use, improper maintenance, accidents, loss or theft."

So, theoretically over-tightening or cross threading a screw and stripping the lockside could be considered improper maintenance. Personally, my experience with KAI service and support has found it to be the best in the business. Maybe someone who's dealt with stripped threads in these new ZTs can share their experience. I had a moment of pause recently when I was installing a CF scale on my 0450, so it'll be just a matter of time before someone gets to check this out first hand.
 
I think there's far more chance of busting the screw itself than stripping the threads in the titanium.
 
whitty said:
I find it interesting this type of set up is bothersome on this knife but yet did not bother anyone on the 450 or 450CF. Or at least not enough to make it a topic on the forums that I saw.

I have a hard time believing that ZT decided to cut corners here. They went top of the line on everything with this knife I doubt they would try to save a buck or 2 on what is their premium production knife to day. Just my 2 cents.
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Well the 450/450CF is a $160/$185 knife. The 801/808 is a $180/$200 knife that features threaded standoffs. The 804 features upgraded carbon fiber and 204p (we don't know their costs so all we can assume that it's more "premium"), however features threaded frames and is $280.

To me, it's not about whether or not one is aesthetically pleasing OR structurally more sound, it's about how the knife retains it's structural rigidity with general maintenance without resulting in a cost to the consumer should a thread get stripped and why they chose to make the change. In my opinion, they are capable of better as their 808, 801, 452, 562 are some of the best production knives out there, regardless of price.
 
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EChoil said:
Do you know if ZT used case-hardened screws like emerson??
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That I have no clue about.

If one were to send an e-mail though, they could probably get all questions answered. :)

They would likely be glad to say if the screws are hardened or not, AND whether the construction method was chosen by the designer or them.
 
EChoil said:
I never saw the other knives, just what I'm seeing here. I never knew of the issue until I read this thread. I checked out from ZT when the new lineup came out.

You may well be right. But let me ask, do you feel like it lessened the physical appearance of the knife overall?
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To be honest with you I did not even notice it or think about it until I saw this thread. I think some knives are made one way and some are made another. How or why when it comes to ZT probably has something to do with what they think will hold up best and maybe some influence from the maker. Do I think it lessons the look of the knife, absolutely not. I pulled this knife out of the box the first time and was blown away by its looks, feel, weight, clip, materials and overall appeal that it was not even a thought. In some ways I think recessing the ti side for screws might have made that side look less sleek. Regardless everyone is entitled to their opinion on it!
 
Hackenslash said:
Regardless of possible production cost differences, maintenance costs will be significantly higher in a stripped thread situation with a threaded lockside vs. threaded spacers.

How does the ZT warranty cover disassembled knives? It's been a long time since I looked at it. If it's covered whether you've disassembled the knife or not, no big deal. The replacement cost will be borne by KAI.
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ZT's warranty has no problem with taking the knife apart. We take them apart as a dealer to anodize them all the time. Have had a couple we could not get apart or back together and just sent them off to ZT. Their warranty department had them back to us in a couple of weeks!
 
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