New ZT looks pretty disappointing

[goldie]

Id rather get the knockout in m390 w the carbon fiber scales; much nicer for a little less …..

 

[whp]

YES!!!!!!!

I am so tired of thumb discs or flipper tabs.

I just got one of the new Microtech Socom Elites and the thumb studs on it are Awesome!

I would love ZT to bring out more knives with thumb studs.

I kind of agree. I m sick of flipper only knives. I m ok with thumb discs or thumb studs or any way of controlled manual opening of a folder. I really was disappointed in the 0562 which had “fake” thumb studs in a flipper only knife. My favorite opener method is with the hole in the blade. Kudos Spyderco.
I think the 0640, which is the first ZT knife I ve bought since the 0561, has a very user friendly disc. But it s the only ZT folder I seen in a while that s not flipper only.

 

[soc_monki]

Honestly, this knife is kind of growing on me. Those liners are super thick, and I do love the blade shape and overall design. Just wish it wasn't speedsafe, or that it could be deassisted. They put detent holes in the 566 and 0770...why not the 357??

And the lower heat treat compared to the other 20cv knives in their lineup.

 

[Gideons]

I kind of agree. I m sick of flipper only knives. I m ok with thumb discs or thumb studs or any way of controlled manual opening of a folder. I really was disappointed in the 0562 which had “fake” thumb studs in a flipper only knife. My favorite opener method is with the hole in the blade. Kudos Spyderco.
I think the 0640, which is the first ZT knife I ve bought since the 0561, has a very user friendly disc. But it s the only ZT folder I seen in a while that s not flipper only.

How does the ZT 0562 have "fake thumbstuds"? They're bladestops. It is pretty simple if you want to slowly open a manual flipper via the bladestops. Sounds like your just prefer the spydiehole, which is fine... but it is just your technique that prevents you from "any way of controlled manual opening". A bad workman blames his tools.

 

[sharp_edge]

How does the ZT 0562 have "fake thumbstuds"? They're bladestops. It is pretty simple if you want to slowly open a manual flipper via the bladestops. Sounds like your just prefer the spydiehole, which is fine... but it is just your technique that prevents you from "any way of controlled manual opening". A bad workman blames his tools.

In the case of ZT 0562, no - it is not simple, if not impossible, to open it with the bladestop.

 

[Mistman68]

While not the most comfortable I can flip my 0562 open w/the bladestops from either side, pretty much like the 0392/0393. If they weren't so short and smooth it would be much easier.

 

[Gideons]

In the case of ZT 0562, no - it is not simple, if not impossible, to open it with the bladestop.

To slow role open, or open with thumbstuds? As, to open normally with thumbstuds may depend on model (2 out of 3 ZT 0562's I could do it with relative easy. But, as the other user put it, a "controlled opening" which I interpreted as a "slow roll" opening, is very easy with any manual flipper that has thumbstuds/bladestops.

Spoiler

All you need to do is apply slight pressure with your index finger on flipper. Not enough to break the detent however. While applying that pressure on the flipper with index, apply slight pressure with thumb on the bladestop/thumbstud to defeat the detent. Then just you can just slow roll/controlled open the manual flipper like any other thumbstud knife. After a few tries it becomes one fluid motion.

 

[whp]

To slow role open, or open with thumbstuds? As, to open normally with thumbstuds may depend on model (2 out of 3 ZT 0562's I could do it with relative easy. But, as the other user put it, a "controlled opening" which I interpreted as a "slow roll" opening, is very easy with any manual flipper that has thumbstuds/bladestops.

Spoiler

All you need to do is apply slight pressure with your index finger on flipper. Not enough to break the detent however. While applying that pressure on the flipper with index, apply slight pressure with thumb on the bladestop/thumbstud to defeat the detent. Then just you can just slow roll/controlled open the manual flipper like any other thumbstud knife. After a few tries it becomes one fluid motion.

The only time I ever handled a 562 was at the Zero Tolerance table at the 2014 Blade Show. That was the year it won the award as the American made knife of the year. I tried to open two different 562 s with the thumbstuds/bladestops and couldn t do it. Like I can do with my 561. Rather than show me how to use the blade stops to open the folder, the company reps said I couldn t use the stops to open that knife. Maybe they changed that knife later. Or, maybe you got two anomalies out of the three you have , and you wouldn t be able to use the stops as openers in nine of the next ten you tried. The 0561 was built to have dual opening. The 0562 was not. At least not in June of 2014, according to the company reps.

 

[whp]

How does the ZT 0562 have "fake thumbstuds"? They're bladestops. It is pretty simple if you want to slowly open a manual flipper via the bladestops. Sounds like your just prefer the spydiehole, which is fine... but it is just your technique that prevents you from "any way of controlled manual opening". A bad workman blames his tools.

As one who uses his knife as a tool, a flipper is not the preferred way to open a work knife. It is useful for a mall ninja.
I m still learning how to use my work knife, maybe.

 

[Gideons]

The only time I ever handled a 562 was at the Zero Tolerance table at the 2014 Blade Show. That was the year it won the award as the American made knife of the year. I tried to open two different 562 s with the thumbstuds/bladestops and couldn t do it. Like I can do with my 561. Rather than show me how to use the blade stops to open the folder, the company reps said I couldn t use the stops to open that knife. Maybe they changed that knife later. Or, maybe you got two anomalies out of the three you have , and you wouldn t be able to use the stops as openers in nine of the next ten you tried. The 0561 was built to have dual opening. The 0562 was not. At least not in June of 2014, according to the company reps.

The ZT 0561, like the Hinderer XM-18 series also feature bladestops and not thumbstuds. I wouldn't say it was "designed" to have dual opening, as they're technically bladestops as well. The simple answer is, yes you're correct in that they weren't designed to be used to open the knife. I assumed when you said "r any way of controlled manual opening of a folder" you meant a slow under control opening of the blade, not opening it quicky/flicking it open with thumb studs or spydie flicking a knife opened. If that is the case, refer to my spoiler as there is no manual flipper with bladestops that you cannot slowly open.

As one who uses his knife as a tool, a flipper is not the preferred way to open a work knife. It is useful for a mall ninja.
I m still learning how to use my work knife, maybe.

Seems very closed minded, I'm no "mall ninja". I also view knives as tools and don't own any safe queens. I find flippers not only to be a very natural way to open a knife, but a great safety feature in case of lock failure or handle slippage. I find a flipper easier to operate with gloved hands in winter, which as a Canadian is important. Everyone has their preferences, I was just trying to explain how it is actually possible to open a flipper knife via the bladestops manually in a controlled manner in case that was helpful information to you. As in a previous post I got the impression you didn't think that was possible.

 

[anthonycastorena2014]

Honestly, this knife is kind of growing on me. Those liners are super thick, and I do love the blade shape and overall design. Just wish it wasn't speedsafe, or that it could be deassisted. They put detent holes in the 566 and 0770...why not the 357??

And the lower heat treat compared to the other 20cv knives in their lineup.

I am with you here. I like the look of it. Not huge on speedsafe but I have liked the look of the knife since its debut. I'm relatively sure I'm going to get one... why not? I like the knockout and had the M390. I've actually gifted several knockout but something about this knife just looks cool. We will see.

In other news.. has anyone handled one?? Did you like it?

 

[Chronovore]

In other areas of life do you find that a linear cost to enjoyment function exists when getting into the higher end of things?

The curve of diminishing returns is totally a thing. It's just that it's such a huge jump from those premium Kershaws at $70-80 to almost $150 for the ZT 0357. Like I said, they both generate the same sort of appeal for me. However, one costs around twice as much as the other. That's not trivial. You could buy two premium Kershaws, or one plus a back-up of a model that you really liked for around the same price.

So what makes the ZT 0357 so much better? A knife like my Dividend is already using M390. Does the ZT's 20CV have a superior heat treatment or something? Is it something else? I like the G-10 scales but in that respect, the 0357 doesn't look all that different from $50-something knives from Bestech, Civivi, etc. Coincidentally, those knives tend to come with excellent manual actions. Is the ZT's Speedsafe action better than the Kershaws?

 

[Chronovore]

As one who uses his knife as a tool, a flipper is not the preferred way to open a work knife. It is useful for a mall ninja.
I m still learning how to use my work knife, maybe.

Most of my favorite knives open with flipper tabs. That includes work, hobby use, and general EDC. I used to carry a Leek around the office. These days, I'll often carry an M390 Dividend in my shirt pocket opposite a pen. My church carry today was a Massdrop Gent. I cut down some cardboard with a Civivi Naja earlier.

I use knives as general cutting tools. I don't think folding knives of any kind are great defensive tools. If you need a defensive tool, get a gun. If it has to be a knife, get a fixed blade. As far as "mall ninjas", that conjures images of MTECH spring assists and dragon motifs with "surgical steel".

 

[craytab]

The curve of diminishing returns is totally a thing. It's just that it's such a huge jump from those premium Kershaws at $70-80 to almost $150 for the ZT 0357. Like I said, they both generate the same sort of appeal for me. However, one costs around twice as much as the other. That's not trivial. You could buy two premium Kershaws, or one plus a back-up of a model that you really liked for around the same price.

So what makes the ZT 0357 so much better? A knife like my Dividend is already using M390. Does the ZT's 20CV have a superior heat treatment or something? Is it something else? I like the G-10 scales but in that respect, the 0357 doesn't look all that different from $50-something knives from Bestech, Civivi, etc. Coincidentally, those knives tend to come with excellent manual actions. Is the ZT's Speedsafe action better than the Kershaws?

You mention the concept but then go on seemingly to not understand it. Rather than me pointlessly addressing each of your rhetorical questions, please revisit the concept.

 

[Chronovore]

You mention the concept but then go on seemingly to not understand it. Rather than me pointlessly addressing each of your rhetorical questions, please revisit the concept.

Maybe you should. I'm comparing fairly similar knives in similarly premium steels and with similar actions from the same overall company. One of them costs about twice as much. Are any of those assumptions wrong? I'm just interested in what product differences helped the 0357 stumble up an abrupt 2x input multiplier. If I don't understand, school me.

 

[craytab]

If I don't understand, school me.

You clearly don't (and I already explained it above) but that is an exercise in frustration I don't want to start my day with, perhaps if I get board later

 

[Xisix]

I personally really like it. I like my link but im worried about hard using it. With this being much more solidly built, Im definitely going to be buying one.

 

[Rival1314]

while y'all are whining and complaining about speedsafe, materials, and pricepoints...I'm over here enjoying the knife.

You can value shop and compare to death...the only thing KAI did wrong is have too much value in their current lineup. Lets get real...Its a ZT for $148. Its build tougher than a link or dividend, and has a much better bladeshape IMHO. The action is lightning fast with a solid "THWACK" on lockup. Don't like speedsafe?? Move on and quit your bitchin...we don't need 8 pages of the same BS....Just buy something else and post on that, why all the hate?!?

 

[whp]

The ZT 0561, like the Hinderer XM-18 series also feature bladestops and not thumbstuds. I wouldn't say it was "designed" to have dual opening, as they're technically bladestops as well. The simple answer is, yes you're correct in that they weren't designed to be used to open the knife. I assumed when you said "r any way of controlled manual opening of a folder" you meant a slow under control opening of the blade, not opening it quicky/flicking it open with thumb studs or spydie flicking a knife opened. If that is the case, refer to my spoiler as there is no manual flipper with bladestops that you cannot slowly open.

Seems very closed minded, I'm no "mall ninja". I also view knives as tools and don't own any safe queens. I find flippers not only to be a very natural way to open a knife, but a great safety feature in case of lock failure or handle slippage. I find a flipper easier to operate with gloved hands in winter, which as a Canadian is important. Everyone has their preferences, I was just trying to explain how it is actually possible to open a flipper knife via the bladestops manually in a controlled manner in case that was helpful information to you. As in a previous post I got the impression you didn't think that was possible.

It wasn't t possible to open to open the 0562 s I handled at the ZT table at Blade six years ago. And the company reps talking with me didn t show me how to use the blade stops to open the knives, and actually said at that time that I couldn't open the 0562 that way. I ve never handled another one.

You are probably in the majority of knife lovers who love the flipper. Otherwise, ZT, which makes about 98% flippers only these days,
would stop doing this. I m probably just old fashioned.

I do remember using the studs to open several 0561 s at my B and M store when I got mine. Some were easy to open with the studs, some were not.

I ve always been blessed with better than average hand strength. Probably due to all the outdoor work.

Flipping open a knife impresses the bystanders. Both ways. I just don t like to open my knife that way.

To each his own.

 

[whp]

Most of my favorite knives open with flipper tabs. That includes work, hobby use, and general EDC. I used to carry a Leek around the office. These days, I'll often carry an M390 Dividend in my shirt pocket opposite a pen. My church carry today was a Massdrop Gent. I cut down some cardboard with a Civivi Naja earlier.

I use knives as general cutting tools. I don't think folding knives of any kind are great defensive tools. If you need a defensive tool, get a gun. If it has to be a knife, get a fixed blade. As far as "mall ninjas", that conjures images of MTECH spring assists and dragon motifs with "surgical steel".

I agree. Knives are cutting tools. Probably not much more useful as a weapon than a hammer or a screwdriver.