New ZT looks pretty disappointing

[Insipid Moniker]

Appears to me that KAI is putting their marketing emphasis on Kershaw. Aside from "a new Kershaw every week" the upgraded M390 & 20CV products seem to hit the market on almost a monthly basis.

I think you may be right and I think they're doing a very, very good job with the Kershaw brand right now. I hadn't bought a Kershaw for anything other than gift purposes in years and I just picked up the LE Knockout, the 20CV Bareknuckle is very, very tempting, the Lucha looks really nice and the Highball is pretty slick as well. With D2 steel blades I think the Kershaw/Emersons are great designs with very competitive materials for the price.

 

[skyhorse]

I've been saying this for a while. I'd love to see the Unmunzaan made by ZT. I appreciate the design elements of the Umnumzaan (washers, thumb studs, blade shape and design, huge screws, etc), but don't need it to be made to CRK specs. ZT could implement those design elements into a much more affordable knife.

I think a ZT version of the Umnumzaan would be a huge success.

 

[midnight flyer]

M midnight flyer

M midnight flyer

 

[skyhorse]

Hopefully ZT will see input from their biggest fans build something really exciting again.

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Hopefully ZT will see input from their biggest fans build something really exciting again.

I honestly think a piece of the problem is that they set the standard with knives like the 0777, 0888 and even more common offerings like the 0550 and 0566 because they were legitimately bringing custom and midtech design and quality to the masses and nobody else was anywhere close at the time. I think they're still doing that, but the competition has largely caught up, so they don't have nearly as much 'wow' factor. That said, I'm just a dumbass on the internet, so I don't really presume to tell them what to do, but that's how I see it.

 

[midnight flyer]

I honestly think a piece of the problem is that they set the standard with knives like the 0777, 0888 and even more common offerings like the 0550 and 0566 because they were legitimately bringing custom and midtech design and quality to the masses and nobody else was anywhere close at the time. I think they're still doing that, but the competition has largely caught up, so they don't have nearly as much 'wow' factor. That said, I'm just a dumbass on the internet, so I don't really presume to tell them what to do, but that's how I see it.

Well said, and I think there may be a lot to your thoughts. It would also explain why so many folks like me look at the designs and give it a "meh" when looking at them. While their build quality is still great, even cheap knives have bearings, flip easily, and are perfectly centered for under $50. And in this day and age of computer design and CNC part milling, it is too easy for all manner of designers and manufacturers to incorporate any and all aspects of knife making they want on any new models.

I think it was a sad day to see one of the original "overbuilt" tank of a knife go away, the 350. Personally, I always associated ZT with that kind of knife. I think taking it out of the lineup would be like Buck getting rid of the 110. There have been a lot of ZT models over the years, but that one to me was the best entry level ZT out there that was a really solid user. No need for improvement.

I am sure though, if ZT was selling enough of them they would still be in production. Obviously, they are in business to make money, so pruning the dead wood off makes sense. But I think they could spend some time making the knives they were known for, just hard workers.

Robert

 

[Gideons]

Well said, and I think there may be a lot to your thoughts. It would also explain why so many folks like me look at the designs and give it a "meh" when looking at them. While their build quality is still great, even cheap knives have bearings, flip easily, and are perfectly centered for under $50. And in this day and age of computer design and CNC part milling, it is too easy for all manner of designers and manufacturers to incorporate any and all aspects of knife making they want on any new models.

I think it was a sad day to see one of the original "overbuilt" tank of a knife go away, the 350. Personally, I always associated ZT with that kind of knife. I think taking it out of the lineup would be like Buck getting rid of the 110. There have been a lot of ZT models over the years, but that one to me was the best entry level ZT out there that was a really solid user. No need for improvement.

I am sure though, if ZT was selling enough of them they would still be in production. Obviously, they are in business to make money, so pruning the dead wood off makes sense. But I think they could spend some time making the knives they were known for, just hard workers.

Robert

I see the argument of "I am sure though, if ZT was selling enough of them they would still be in production". Which, I disagree with, as every time ZT did released batches of the ZT 0301 and 0303, they sold out extremely quickly. Or how they replaced the ZT 0562, just with the more expensive ZT 0562TI. Not to mention, the ZT 0562 was released as the 0560 was being discontinued (or soon was). ZT wouldn't of made another very similar Hinderer knife (0562) if the 0560 stopped selling. Just some examples of the top of my head.

 

[Fletcher.357]

Assisted opening and liner locks are individually deal breakers for me. Add them together and I damn sure wont buy it.

 

[johnnytoxin]

I'd like to see a ZT colab of the Umnumzaan.

I've been saying this for a while. I'd love to see the Unmunzaan made by ZT. I appreciate the design elements of the Umnumzaan (washers, thumb studs, blade shape and design, huge screws, etc), but don't need it to be made to CRK specs. ZT could implement those design elements into a much more affordable knife.

I think a ZT version of the Umnumzaan would be a huge success.

I don’t think they could pull it off. I believe there is a reason more makers don’t use the ceramic ball interface. It requires a very precise fit and attention to detail to make sure you have a safe lock. I don’t think you could do that on a larger production scale. Sure they could swap it out for a steel lock interface, but then it wouldn’t be a Zaan

 

[BD_01]

ZT always gets a lot of love and hate.

Only about a third of their lineup has ever interested me at any given time. Now is no different, from my perspective.

That said, the most recent release that interested me was the 0640–and it took me a little time to warm to it.

I guess that means they’re due to release something new that I like. The 0357 won’t be the one, but it might actually sell decently. Perhaps not to aficionados, but I can imagine it doing well from the displays at Bass Pro & etc.

A ZT colab with Shirogorov would be awesome.

 

[AntDog]

I liked the very first round of ZTs that came out. They had a certain “panache”.

Since then, it’s been pretty much mehhhhhh except for a few. With all the number designations and blah designs they all start to blend together.

 

[marrenmiller]

As someone who doesn't think the ceramic ball on the umnumzaan is a good thing at all (based on owning one, at that), that's fine with me. I'll take a steel lock insert any day. Either way, I bet that ZT could functionally replicate the rest of the design without issues.

I don’t think they could pull it off. I believe there is a reason more makers don’t use the ceramic ball interface. It requires a very precise fit and attention to detail to make sure you have a safe lock. I don’t think you could do that on a larger production scale. Sure they could swap it out for a steel lock interface, but then it wouldn’t be a Zaan

 

[johnnytoxin]

As someone who doesn't think the ceramic ball on the umnumzaan is a good thing at all

Why is it not a good thing? And how could ZT replicate something that the OEM sells for $450, for around $200?

 

[marrenmiller]

Why is it not a good thing? And how could ZT replicate something that the OEM sells for $450, for around $200?

First of all, ZT literally built an empire selling functionally similar things for $200 that others sell for more money. That's sort of what they do with all their collaborationswith custom makers, except in this case ZT doesn't even need to do anything fancy to functionally replicate the design of the Umnumzaan. Give me bronze washers, thumb-stud/blade stop combo, a harpoon blade in S35VN with a hollow grind, standoffs, large durable screws, and a ti-frame in the shape of the Umnumzaan's frame and in my mind you've captured everything interesting about the design. ZT is capable of doing all of that with an admittedly lower level of fit and finish and a significantly lower price point, which I'd prefer over the real deal.

I don't like the concept or execution of the ceramic ball interface, personally. On mine, the ball would shift around on the lock face depending on how hard the knife was opened and if the handle was squeezed. If opened softly, you got noticeable lock movement. It also shifts the lock engagement point of the lock bar way up when compared to a normal frame lock (which typically engage on the inside corner of the lock furthest away from the pivot), which is not as secure of a design. Far be it from me to criticize CRK for what he views as an improvement to his design, but in my view he was off the mark with that change and at odds with how the walker liner lock was originally designed. The lock bar on my Umnumzaan, along with those on multiple other knives with similar lock engagement geometry, would move upwards into the handle if you stressed the lock, even as the ceramic ball held fast. This never resulted in a lock failure, but I have owned many better frame lock implementations out there and for significantly less money.

 

[Mistman68]

Due to this thread I opened up my ZT drawer and played with a few. I gotta say, I almost forgot how well built they can be, vault type lock-up, no blade movement at all, solid as heck. 0560, 0561, 0920, 0850, 0562, 0609, 0801, 0566 + a few others. I don't have one that I would consider marginally built. As mentioned I haven't bought one in a while but have purchased lot's of other knives and must admit even 'higher-end' knives don't consistently match up to ZT's build quality. I'm not saying ZT never misses, I've read plenty of comments where the owner was less than satisfied but in my case I've been pretty lucky.

ZT either will or won't pull us 'old schoolers' back in, while I'm not a fan of the latest crop aesthetically if something does pop up that interest me at all I'll probably pick it up. ZT is where I went once I compared one to the Benchmade's I'd been buying for a few years and also the brand that started my 'collecting'. I would love to see a win from ZT again as I like to rep local companies. I'm not pining for anything, like I said, either they will or they won't, I'm not holding my breath. The knife market has boomed in the last decade and there are a LOT of great options out there, one of the reasons ZT is lagging IMO. I prefer to purchase USA and gravitate that way w/my collection but I'm not against quality higher-end overseas stuff. ZT has a lot of legit competition, they set the bar for affordable production quality IMO but now they need a big shot of innovation and some compelling designs to be more competitive w/us 'knife folks'.

 

[Razor]

I kinda figure if you don't like ZT's don't buy them. I don't like all their new designs but I do like the 450 and the 393. The 393 feels solid a a rock to me and if you make it fail you need a fix blade. No use to bash ZT or BM or spyderco or who ever. I just bought a new 301 on here and would like to find a new 200. Lol I also like the 909 and think it should have stayed in the line up. It was a hell of a knife I think, but I also like to carry lighter knives to.

 

[skyhorse]

I don’t think they could pull it off. I believe there is a reason more makers don’t use the ceramic ball interface. It requires a very precise fit and attention to detail to make sure you have a safe lock. I don’t think you could do that on a larger production scale. Sure they could swap it out for a steel lock interface, but then it wouldn’t be a Zaan

I believe ZT would make their own subtle changes to the original rather than totally replicating the Umnumzaan.

 

[johnnytoxin]

but in my view he was off the mark with that change and at odds with how the walker liner lock was originally designed.

You have your opinion/experience and I have mine which obviously differs from yours. However the above statement is a little strange because Reeve invented the frame lock which borrows from the Walker liner lock. He has proven for the last 30 years that he understands the details and intricacies of liner/frame lock design. If he sees the ceramic ball as an improvement on the design I don’t really see how you could argue against it. Unless you are a maker as well and understand the design as well as he does? They even have it on the Sebenza now. Seems like a bad idea for them as a company if the ceramic ball is indeed inferior. Anyway I could talk about this stuff all day but don’t want to pull this thread off topic anymore so PM me if you want to continue discussing.

 

[johnnytoxin]

I believe ZT would make their own subtle changes to the original rather than totally replicating the Umnumzaan.

Ya I guess Im just such an Umnumzaan fan boy that the very idea of it just rubs me the wrong way. But hey if you and others here would like to see it don’t let me rain on your parade. Let ZT know you want to see it happen!

 

[Hackenslash]

Although the 0357 isn't a knife for me, I think it will be a success for ZT. This is the perfect "brick and mortar store" knife to compete with Benchmades and Spydercos. I don't see it as being marketed to us Knife Knuts as much as casual users with a little money. This will look very favorable at Bass Pro next to a vanilla Grip or a PM2, while still being in the same price range.

If given the choice between a PM2 with its "odd looks and weird hole" and the Grip with "hollow, plastic-feeling handles", a casual knife user will see a lot of appeal in a ZERO TOLERANCE knife with easy-opening SpeedSafe. Although the 0357 will mostly be a thud among enthusiasts, I can see it doing quite well in the retail resale realm.

What appears to be a bad design from our viewpoint, might look awesome to a casual knife guy/gal.