NGK and Benchmade

Knifemakers and companies have the right to decide who they sell knives to. They want to keep as many of their dealers happy as possible so that they all keep wanting knives from them- but it is not possible to make them all happy. When one dealer starts selling knives for far less than the others, it makes the others unhappy. If they get too unhappy, because their sales drop too far because of, say, NGK's lower prices, then they may stop ordering, say, Benchmades. So is NGK's prices were making other BM dealers unhappy, it might be best for BM to stop selling to NGK. This may not be nice, but BM can't lose several dealers just to be nice to NGK. A knifemaker or company has the right to try and fix the situation to keep their business going, to keep as many dealers as possible happy, as many knives as possible ordered, and their brandname retaining its status.

However, walking away from someone while they are talking and not selling them anymore knives is not a good way to fix the situation.

I cannot blame a knifemaker for wanting to have some sort of control over their prices. But there are too many great knives out there to buy knives from a disrespectful person like Les De Asis.

But we should all keep in mind that we are only hearing one side of the story. Perhaps Les De Asis has nicely tried to fix the situation in the past and Michael Dye basically told him to **** off. NGK wants to sell knives and make money. So does BM. If a dealer wants to lower prices to sell more knives and make more money, it isn't always better for the company that actually makes the product. You cannot expect them to lose money over it. And that may be the case here.

But unless Les De Asis' actions were warrented because Michael Dye had been disrespectful to him in the past, I think Asis' actions were unacceptable- not the business decision, but the disrespect to Michael.

Before anyone says BM or the "other dealers" are greedy, you should keep in mind that NGK doesn't set their prices low to be a charity. They are trying to make money, too.

And before anyone calls me a NGK hater: they are my favorite online dealer of production knives and the first website I would recommend to someone looking for knives from the major brands.
 
NGK's BM prices were never that much lower than anyone else's .

The only explaination is the other dealers were jealous of all the positive feedback and recommendations NGK was getting on the forums and in general.
So instead of trying to compete, stab at their back.
 
NGK's prices are only one part of why people buy from them (just as Benchmade's well-known pricing structure has nothing to do with the popularity of their knives). They will still have access to Benchmade stock, just not directly from Benchmade. All this does is make the industry look like spiteful kids in a playground. If the other dealers' names got out, the ones who complained, it would really be funny ... but I think people will continue to buy from the same places they would have before all this came out.
 
Steven Andrews said:
It's a sorry state of affairs.

Benchmades are my favourite knives. New Graham is my favourite dealer.
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I agree, I've bought 95% of my knives from New Graham and all of my Benchmades. I suppose I'll keep buying them if New Graham has it but if they don't it's no skin off my back. There are plenty of other brands to keep me occupied. I don't just buy from them for the low prices, but because of the
customer service and I like supporting stores in my state. One of these days I'm going to make a trip down there and buy a knife and get a prescription filled. :)
 
This entire discussion is getting out of hand with name calling and brand bashing. My initial post concerning my problems with BM was in reply to many queries as to why we did not have the BM Morpho in stock. We were the first dealer to pre-order the Morphos (according to our sales rep), yet were informed in January that BM would not have any product to ship us.
Several phone calls and two personal meetings later, BM decided we were not the type of direct dealer they want. This is a simple business decision on their part. BM makes an excellent product. I think they have some very good designs in their stables and their customer service to the end line user is excellent. We will continue to provide BM products a long as we can at a fair price and with the best customer service we can provide. Be advised that new releases and Gold Line items will likely be very scarce on our site.
Perhaps one day we will be back in the graces...who know.
At any rate, let's let this rest and get on with more productive discussions, just like the guys in the Cove.
 
BenchmadeNut said:
Your name is spyderJon and you have no bias against any knife company? Me neither.

I guess i did start cussing up a storm there, please quote it for everyone else.

"Bite Me"? Did i upset you with my common sense? Im sorry, it won't happen again.
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Listen, kid, YOUR life may not have any other areas of interest than knives, but mine does. I have been Spyderjon on EVERY forum I've ever been on. It has nothing to do with Spyderco. I am a Jimmy Buffett fan, and my name is in fact after one of his songs called "The Ballad of Spider John." I was signing up for another NON KNIFE related forum, and someone had already taken SpiderJohn. Most of it's other variations were already taken, but SpyderJon was not. I keep THE SAME name on EVERY forum I'm on to reduce confusion and so that other people don't get mistaken for me. My real name isn't even Jon.

I won't quote your vulgarity, because as I said the forum has very simple rules and one of them is no vulgarity outside of the appropriate places here (i.e. W&C). As far as common sense, if YOUR kind of "sense" was in any way common we'd all still be in the stone ages. Far as it not happening again, I doubt you could be quiet if you tried.

In respect to Michael, I think I'll move on. Although, I think the discussion is a worthwhile one. To me, it comes down to how companies treat their dealers. This is an issue for me, because as I said earlier, how they treat their dealers is a small step from how they treat their customers. As a knife buyer, I feel compelled to "vote with my dollars" when it comes to different companies. I don't buy CS because of some of their business practices. I never said some of their products aren't good, and if they came with the name "Camillus" on them I'd buy them in a heartbeat. Since they're basically a sub-contracted brand name who only produce videos, I won't buy the knives that will support their brand name.

BM makes some good products. I never said they didn't. I just can't agree with the way they've treated NGK and other dealers they have. There are just too many good knives out there by companies that are easier to work with and treat their dealers in a respectful, businesslike manner.
 
Over the past few years, I have purchased ALL of my Benchmade and Spyderco knives from New Graham Knives. Excellent company all around!

Following BM's change in policy, I won't be buying another BM again! :jerkit:

How's that for a customer voicing his opinion and with his wallet! ;)
 
Michael Dye said:
At any rate, let's let this rest and get on with more productive discussions.
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And after that we can squeeze this toothpaste back into the tube. :D

BTW SpyderJon (in a blatant, yet I'm sure futile attempt to redirect this thread) the Ballad of Spider John was actually written by the great Willis Alan Ramsey.

Jack
 
Jack, thanks for the info! I had no idea! It was a song that was on his box set and it just spoke to me. Did Mr. Ramsey ever release it on his own? I'd be very interested in hearing the original version, as sometimes you discover a whole new artist you'll like. I found Rye Cooder that way, from a song that the Black Crowes did in concert that I happened to get a bootleg copy of. Very cool!
 
WAR released a self-titled debut in 1972 that contains the Ballad of Spider John. The album is considered a classic of the progressive country genre and was largely recorded at Leon Russell's studio in Tulsa. It's a great album and I think you'd really enjoy his version of Spider John.

Jack
 
call me stupid, but I seek to understand why benchmade would care that NGK was selling cheaper than everybody else. That dosen't affect the price they buy them from BM does it?
 
The only reason I own any Benchmades is because I could afford to buy them from places like NGK, and other online dealers that offer great prices. If I had to pay typical mall store prices ($170-180 for a knife rather than $110-130) I wouldn't have bought any Benchmades. Without places like NGK I would think Benchmade would move a lot less product. If they go with price fixing so everyone can make $50 on a knife, that's going to put the price of their product out of reach for a lot of people. So Benchmade would rather sell less knives so some dealers could make more profit? Doesn't make sense to me from Benchmade's perspective.

The last knife I purchased was the BM Skirmish, but it had a defect. I returned it to the dealer, got a replacement, which wasn't as bad, but it also had a defect. The dealer was NGK. I love NGK and will continue to do business with them. I now wonder if BM was sending them less than perfect knives on purpose.
 
tim8557 said:
I just came across this very interesting thread on another forum. Hopefully it is not considered a breach of forum ethics to post it here. I know that this forum has a lot of NGK devotees.

http://bladeandbarrel.com/viewtopic.php?p=1116#1116
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I thought it was interesting as well. I think Benchmade makes a great knife and NG is my favorite retailer. Its just a shame that there has to be bad blood for no real reason.
 
Here's the problem, and it happens with every company.

Established (think brick and motar) business that retail knives have a higher cost or are used to higher profits, generally speaking the prices they charge are "higher".

Internet retailers, generally have a lower cost of doing business due to various reasons, so they can sell their knives at lower costs.

Pretty soon the higher costs stores get grumpy as they may perceave (real or not) that they are losing customers to internet stores. Rather then attempting to make their operations more efficient, they bitch at the manufacturer to try and make it hard for the low cost reailer to get stuff to sell.

The manufacturer is in a bind because they can't afford to piss off their high cost retailers because they still represent a significant % of their sales. Obviously the manufacturer has to strike a balance.

IMO penalizing the low cost store is the wrong move to make, lower cost means more product sold and greater demand. What they should be doing is encouraging high cost of doing business stores to do better.
 
I think the problem here is really just the opposite in a way. NGK is the brick and mortar business. Hes been competing with the basement internet sellers for so long that he has been forced to sell at their price level. The internet retailers didnt have much margin to start with, so without a pharmacy to pay the bills, they start starving on the few knives they do sell. NGK on the other hand can outlast these guys. Thats when they run to the manufacturer and cry that Mike is unfair because he sells at the same price that they do. If Benchmade had taken this stance in the past, Mike would be selling at MSRP and the basement businesses would have never even got started.
 
Not long ago, Benchmade pulled the plug on my knife (and outdoor gear) supplier for similar reasons... they wanted to be sold only through B&M stores and use very few national distributors.

I am not sure if this is good business practice but it sure hurts on this side.
 
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