NitroV...Any Updates???

JoshRG

JoshRG

Joined
Apr 24, 2014
Messages
571
So I know the stuff is still very new and I understand if this question is a bit premature but have any of you gents been able to try out NitroV? I've read just about every thread I could find which sadly, is not very much. I understand some makers were having issues with cracking/warping in the past and am wondering if this is an exception or the norm. I still plan to do my own testing before selling but figured I'd ask if any of you have had experience (good or bad) since I currently have none. :(

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to provide their experience or input! :D

Blessings,
Joshua
 
I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about Nitro-V, Josh.
What would you like to know?

Edit:
Far as cracking or warping:
Cracks thus far have been odd balls, and potentially issues from heat treat.
Warping is typically been happening from thermal shock, but readily prevented by clamping blades flat after plate quenching to below 125, doing a snap temper at 300 and then cryo while still clamped flat.
 
I had a batch of 25 knives in .110" Nitro-V cut on a water jet by Aldo and heat treated by Paul Bos at Buck knives. 10 we're hardened to 63 Rc, the rest were at 61. Every blade came back straight as an arrow (I would assume some needed to be straightened after ht) and not a single one cracked. So far, I have handles on two of them, four are hand sanded up to 800 grit. I can say that, while it is a little more difficult to grind than simple carbon steel, it finished up very nicely. In my limited experience with AEB-L, I would say it is very similar when grinding and hand finishing blades.

I haven't gotten far enough to do testing for edge retention and such, but if it's anything like AEB-L, I am very optimistic.

Looking forward to seeing what others have to say.
-Tanner
 
Ed,
Would you happen to know if that is how Peter's Heat treat does it? What Rc does that give you? I am looking for Rc64 if possible, for kitchen cutlery. What do you think about that hardness?
Would it be too chippy?
Tim
 
tim37a said:
Ed,
Would you happen to know if that is how Peter's Heat treat does it? What Rc does that give you? I am looking for Rc64 if possible, for kitchen cutlery. What do you think about that hardness?
Would it be too chippy?
Tim
Click to expand...

I know folks who've had Peters HT their nitro and been happy with it between 61-62, but I don't know if anyone's had them leave it harder than that.
Personally, I've been leaving nitro kitchen knives between 62-63 depending on the customer's experience and desired kitchen use (pro chef as opposed to general home use). Those left around 63, full flat to .007-.005 and then gently convexed on rotary platen to edge haven't exhibited any issues with chipping or roll.
My girlfriend is a pro chef working a joint kitchen for two major fine dining local establishments and since the beginning of November been using a nitro kitchen knife I made her with the exact grind as described above, the edge sharpened at 15° and thus far has not needed any real sharpening aside a quick strop after she's put in several double shifts during the week.
In short I've found it easy to work both annealed and hardened, readily takes a thin, lean grind; and offers better edge retention and corrosion resistance than AEB-L.
 
Thanks Ed. Think I will start out at Rc 63, full flat to .005, and 10* per side.
Tim
 
I always curious about the edge holding of Nitro-V compare to other stainless like 440C. Have bought 2 sheets of it but still have no plan.
 
I think that one advantage us modern knife custom makers have with AEB-L, 13C26, Nitro-V, etc over makers in the past who used "simple" stainless steels like 440C, 440B etc, is that we have discovered improvements in fine edge stability and abrasion resistance once we figured out that we could run the steel up into the low 60's.
 
I have done 4 nitro v blades so far. One went to @Lorien but I dont think he has used it too much yet. Another blade was a kitchen petty, I have had excellent feedback but I dont think that blade sees too much demanding use. I also made two blades in the 4" drop point category. These were hardened by Jeff Mutz @ Tru Grit to RC63-64. I did have pretty bad warp with these blades. They were also noticeably chippy compared to my AEBL knives at RC 61-62.

I guess what I am trying to say Is I have not been able to take nitro V (RC63-64)as insanely thin as aebl (RC61-62)without brittleness issues. However I have kept the thickness behind edge a little thicker and used con vexed bevel geometry as opposed to concave (nathans 36" radius platen) and I have a stable edge on the nitroV without much performance loss. I am hoping to use nitroV as a replacement for AEBL and was hoping it would be as tough at RC63-64 as aebl was at RC61-62. So far though that does not seem to be the case.

E Ed Braun Stick around here, especially since I got off facebook now and cant keep track of your projects:)
 
Wow gents, thanks for all the info!

timos- timos- , most of what you covered is essentially what I am curious about before making the plunge. I typically have Peter's run my AEB-L to 62rc and have been relatively pleased with the performance. From a maker's point of view I love almost everything about AEB-L; grinds easily, corrosion resistant, easy to sharpen, good edge stability, and inexpensive. My only gripe with it is edge retention. I had hoped to be able to run NitroV a little harder than AEB-L but unfortunately this does not appear to be possible without increased risk of chipping. :(

For those that have compared it to AEB-L, have you found the edge retention to be noticeably different/improved? Although NitroV is certainly not an expensive steel I wonder if the increased cost over AEB-L presents any major benefit (other than perhaps the cool name. ;))

Thank you again everyone for helping me out, I REALLY appreciate it. :thumbsup: :D

Blessings,
Joshua
 
JoshRG said:
Wow gents, thanks for all the info!

timos- timos- , most of what you covered is essentially what I am curious about before making the plunge. I typically have Peter's run my AEB-L to 62rc and have been relatively pleased with the performance. From a maker's point of view I love almost everything about AEB-L; grinds easily, corrosion resistant, easy to sharpen, good edge stability, and inexpensive. My only gripe with it is edge retention. I had hoped to be able to run NitroV a little harder than AEB-L but unfortunately this does not appear to be possible without increased risk of chipping. :(
Click to expand...

Honestly I would still do your own tests....my blades were ground like a lazer/kitchen knife...extremely thin flat grinds with about 15 deg inclusive secondary bevels...sort of an extreme..as a more general purpose type edge, I wouldnt be surprised if the nitrov was still as tough as the aebl. I just have not tested this yet.
 
timos- said:
I have done 4 nitro v blades so far. One went to @Lorien but I dont think he has used it too much yet. Another blade was a kitchen petty, I have had excellent feedback but I dont think that blade sees too much demanding use. I also made two blades in the 4" drop point category. These were hardened by Jeff Mutz @ Tru Grit to RC63-64. I did have pretty bad warp with these blades. They were also noticeably chippy compared to my AEBL knives at RC 61-62.

I guess what I am trying to say Is I have not been able to take nitro V (RC63-64)as insanely thin as aebl (RC61-62)without brittleness issues. However I have kept the thickness behind edge a little thicker and used con vexed bevel geometry as opposed to concave (nathans 36" radius platen) and I have a stable edge on the nitroV without much performance loss. I am hoping to use nitroV as a replacement for AEBL and was hoping it would be as tough at RC63-64 as aebl was at RC61-62. So far though that does not seem to be the case.

E Ed Braun Stick around here, especially since I got off facebook now and cant keep track of your projects:)
Click to expand...

This is my primary concern with giving a yay or nay to hardness when heat treat is outsourced--if done at home, I can trouble shoot issues, but without knowing exactly was done by a second party, I'm unable to say for certain why some issues happen. Last month for example a HT provider was skipping foil or anti-decarb compound, preheat, snap temper; and on top of those cryoing straight from plates by literally tossing them into a cooler with 200% ETOH, which naturally resulted in a much lower as quenched hardness and then severe warping issues--worse, he lied to the client. Were it not for the fact pics clearly showed heavy decarb, we wouldn't have known something was up.
In another instance, a HT provider sent knives back to a client labeled as 61Rc, and while the blade did RC at 61, the tang was a solid 64+, which is very much confusing and alarming as the unknown method for differentially tempering may have caused some of the client's issues.
The good news is NJSB and I are still working on more conclusive testing with the foundry to pinpoint potential possible issues or more clearly define heat treat schedules for better edge stability when ground thinner. I'm particularly debating increasing phosphorous in later reiterations of the formula.

Timos, miss you bud, noticed you'd ghosted from FB although I keep up on you via IG. Dunno if I'll be posting projects here, I'm here mostly as NJSB liaison and tech support, and I kinda sorta did promise Stacy I'd behave :D;)
 
Good to hear Ed. In Mid Jan I will be sending in a mixed batch to Peters of both AEBL(rc61) and NitroV(rc63) so I will be able to compare side by side atleast using the same heat treater. Each year I am closer to wanting to do my own heat treat but finance/business wise I cant make the leap yet.
 
I made a big run of hard use machetes from NITRO V over the summer. HT to 59 RC and I had the spines drawn back with induction which really doesn't do much for this alloy.

In a 17.5 in .110 thick blade, NITRO V performs very well. It has top notch edge stability, is truly stainless, and has great impact toughness. Its basically a stainless 52100 when it comes to edge performance. The only area where NITRO V is not great is what happens when you reach the elastic limit during a flex test. NITRO V snaps when bent past 90 degrees whereas equivalent non stainless steels like 52100 will take a set. Granted, putting a knife in a vice in flexing it until it snaps is about the least informative test you can do but its still something I like to do with all my knives for science.

Here's a video of some testing.


Heres some flex test pics

First is NITRO V--> This is about as far as you can go before it snaps


DGAsU

jlmTioQ.png


Vs a smaller machete is 52100 at 57-58 RC with spring tempered spine. This is where you get a permanent bend.

dCdNalc.png

DGAsU
 
Last edited:
Ed Braun said:
This is my primary concern with giving a yay or nay to hardness when heat treat is outsourced--if done at home, I can trouble shoot issues, but without knowing exactly was done by a second party, I'm unable to say for certain why some issues happen. Last month for example a HT provider was skipping foil or anti-decarb compound, preheat, snap temper; and on top of those cryoing straight from plates by literally tossing them into a cooler with 200% ETOH, which naturally resulted in a much lower as quenched hardness and then severe warping issues--worse, he lied to the client. Were it not for the fact pics clearly showed heavy decarb, we wouldn't have known something was up.
In another instance, a HT provider sent knives back to a client labeled as 61Rc, and while the blade did RC at 61, the tang was a solid 64+, which is very much confusing and alarming as the unknown method for differentially tempering may have caused some of the client's issues.
The good news is NJSB and I are still working on more conclusive testing with the foundry to pinpoint potential possible issues or more clearly define heat treat schedules for better edge stability when ground thinner. I'm particularly debating increasing phosphorous in later reiterations of the formula.

Timos, miss you bud, noticed you'd ghosted from FB although I keep up on you via IG. Dunno if I'll be posting projects here, I'm here mostly as NJSB liaison and tech support, and I kinda sorta did promise Stacy I'd behave :D;)
Click to expand...
what's "ETOH"?
 
Good info here, thanks for all the responses.
FWIW I've finished two chefs in Nitro V at RC62 done by Peter's and the feedback I've gotten from the customers has been positive. I'll most likely be using more of it as it seems to be getting good performance reviews and finishes easier than say S35VN and CPM 20CV. And it compares favorably in terms of cost as well.
 
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