NitroV...Any Updates???

Larrin said:
Nitro-V is basically AEB-L with a Nitrogen and Vanadium addition. From the thermodynamic calculations it appears that the increased nitrogen leads to less chromium carbide for a slightly reduced volume of carbide. However, even if those calculations are inaccurate the carbide volume would then be unchanged for no improvement in wear resistance. The claim given for an improvement in wear resistance seems to be because of the vanadium addition; however, that amount of vanadium is so small that it is unlikely that any vanadium carbides or nitrides are present after heat treatment.
Click to expand...
Based upon sheer estimation, do you perceive any benefits or detrimental differences between the two, warranting the use of one more so that the other?

If not more so, do you see one fulfilling a particular role better than the other?
-----
I saw this past of yours after I had posted. If you think this about covets by question, that would be fine. Though anything more would also be appreciated.

Larrin said:
I don't like to give specific advice for individual applications and knives. I don't know how the knife will be used and I don't have enough data on how that specific geometry behaves. Even if we limited it only to the steel behavior I've never done a set of experiments on NitroV and how its toughness changes with different hardness and heat treating variables. Test it out and let us know!
Click to expand...
----
Edited due to autocorrect being the bane of my OCD...
 
Last edited:
NJBillK said:
Based upon sheer estimation, do you perceive any benefits or detrimental differences between the two, warranting the user of one more so that the other?

If not more so, do you see one fulfilling a particular time better than the other?
Click to expand...
The main benefit is supposed to be corrosion resistance. The reportedly higher hardness could be a benefit for certain applications. I am not aware of any toughness or corrosion resistance test results, so we don't know for sure if it is matching or exceeding AEB-L.
 
Hi all - thanks for the information, very helpful! I was looking to ask pretty much the same questions :)

One follow-up - it sounds like Nitro-V is great among ingot steels, but how does it compare on toughness and edge retention to PM steels? I've noticed a number of makers (Zieba, Blauvelt, etc.) using Nitro-V in folders, where previous examples of their work have had, say, M390. From an end user perspective, other than possibly it being a bit more stainless and easier to sharpen, would there be any advantage is getting a folder in Nitro-V vs S35VN or M390?
 
I was able to test my first nitro V petty at RC 63-64 last night.
I used the 3m yellow 967's to finish grind the hardened steel. Overall it is just like aebl in this way. My bevel geometry was FFG leaving about .025 behind the edge.
I then convexed with slack belt (gator 300). the convexing goes about 3/8 up from the edge. Then applied about 10 deg. secondary bevel on either side. After that I sharpened it up. The steel is silky smooth on the stones. It feels alot like 1095 to me. This is pretty beefy geometry for a kitchen knife. This kind of edge works amazing on tomatoes but does not brunoise an onion well. Anyway, I will be taking the flats down to .010 behind the edge and then convex and see if the edge stability suffers, i am hoping it does not but we will see!
 
timos- said:
I was able to test my first nitro V petty at RC 63-64 last night.
I used the 3m yellow 967's to finish grind the hardened steel. Overall it is just like aebl in this way. My bevel geometry was FFG leaving about .025 behind the edge.
I then convexed with slack belt (gator 300). the convexing goes about 3/8 up from the edge. Then applied about 10 deg. secondary bevel on either side. After that I sharpened it up. The steel is silky smooth on the stones. It feels alot like 1095 to me. This is pretty beefy geometry for a kitchen knife. This kind of edge works amazing on tomatoes but does not brunoise an onion well. Anyway, I will be taking the flats down to .010 behind the edge and then convex and see if the edge stability suffers, i am hoping it does not but we will see!
Click to expand...
Good stuff, I got some back from heat treatment at the Same hardness.
63-64 HRC.
Tried to reach 65hrc on one, it didn't work out.
 
Larrin said:
While Nitro-V is an improvement in corrosion resistance over AEB-L, it is unlikely to have superior edge retention.
Click to expand...
How hard can AEBL run? I can only get mine to 62rc with cryo and tempering.

What are you guys doing?
 
DeadboxHero said:
How hard can AEBL run? I can only get mine to 62rc with cryo and tempering.

What are you guys doing?
Click to expand...
I have been going to 60 RC with PAUL Bos HTing with Abel and have been very happy with edge holding and so have my customers on my culinary knives. Just have my first batch of Nitro-V 60RC and will start on those in a couple of weeks
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
I have been going to 60 RC with PAUL Bos HTing with Abel and have been very happy with edge holding and so have my customers on my culinary knives. Just have my first batch of Nitro-V 60RC and will start on those in a couple of weeks
Click to expand...
I'd definitely like to hear your opinion about the difference between the two especially since they are at the same HRC.
 
DeadboxHero said:
I'd definitely like to hear your opinion about the difference between the two especially since they are at the same HRC.
Click to expand...
In a conversation with PAUL Farner at PAUL bos ht I asked how high you can go with Nitro-v and he basically said about 62 RC .. it does depend of what the knife is planned for !! ————I’m healing up from Carpal Tunnel surgery so it I’ll be about two weeks more! I rushed going back to sharpening & opened the darn stitches !:eek:;)
 
The massdrop knife
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Using AEB-L at HRC 60 is like driving a Mustang GT500 and never shifting out of first gear.

Chuck
Click to expand...
The Massdrop knife with nitro-v is going to be between 57-59rc,thats one reason I pulled my preorder I feel maybe they are being too conservative. Only time will tell
 
Last edited:
Rhinoknives1 said:
In a conversation with PAUL Farner at PAUL bos ht I asked how high you can go with Nitro-v and he basically said about 62 RC .. it does depend of what the knife is planned for !! ————I’m healing up from Carpal Tunnel surgery so it I’ll be about two weeks more! I rushed going back to sharpening & opened the darn stitches !:eek:;)
Click to expand...
I was curious if there is a difference between the steels at that hardness when I first saw Nitro what got me excited was the higher working hardness. Its a curiosity what happens at the same hardness
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Using AEB-L at HRC 60 is like driving a Mustang GT500 and never shifting out of first gear.

Chuck
Click to expand...
My experience is contrary, it works fine at 60 RC and I’ve sold in the area of 350 of my knives at that hardness & Steel. With many buying more & referring friends...............................................LOL Besides, a Mustang 500 has raw power but they handle & ride like a Buck board wagon!
 
Rhinoknives1 said:
My experience is contrary, it works fine at 60 RC and I’ve sold in the area of 350 of my knives at that hardness & Steel.
Click to expand...
Please tell me about your experience.

I've tested multiple knives made from AEB-L at HRC 60-64. My experience is with knives made here and from other knifemakers, HRC 64 chips, 63 work well in the kitchen, 62 and down for hard use (abused) knives. The difference in performance between 60 and 63 is night and day.

Chuck
 
Alpha Knife Supply said:
Please tell me about your experience.

I've tested multiple knives made from AEB-L at HRC 60-64. My experience is with knives made here and from other knifemakers, HRC 64 chips, 63 work well in the kitchen, 62 and down for hard use (abused) knives. The difference in performance between 60 and 63 is night and day.

Chuck
Click to expand...
So maybe he doesn't make kitchen knives at that RC and you both actually agree?
 
Kevin McGovern said:
So maybe he doesn't make kitchen knives at that RC and you both actually agree?
Click to expand...
Kevin, Chuck seems to not want to agree about anything here! LOL I do make Culinary knives at RC60 out of AEBL & Nitro-V—- Chuck, read my previous post, also, I think you or anyone else would be a bit hard pressed to tell just one RC difference by hand testing! Possible? Maybe?
 
Last edited:
Rhinoknives1 said:
Kevin, Chuck seems to not want to agree about anything here! LOL I do make Culinary knives at RC60 out of AEBL & Nitro-V—- Chuck, read my previous post, also, I think you or anyone else would be a bit hard pressed to tell just one RC difference by hand testing! Possible? Maybe?
Click to expand...
I agree a kitchen knife at 60 would be no slouch.
 
What's wrong with AEB-L at RC60? i'm very familiar with food industry and have seen lots of chef using their RC55 Classic Zwilling just fine. Increasing RC hardness is not always translate into optimizing the performance. I'm sure AEB-L will lose its toughness significantly going up RC62 especially as hypoeutectoid steel thus less idiot proof.
 
shqxk said:
What's wrong with AEB-L at RC60? i'm very familiar with food industry and have seen lots of chef using their RC55 Classic Zwilling just fine. Increasing RC hardness is not always translate into optimizing the performance. I'm sure AEB-L will lose its toughness significantly going up RC62 especially as hypoeutectoid steel thus less idiot proof.
Click to expand...
I concur 100% I’ve used from 58-60 RC for ATS34, 440c Cpm-154 and AEBL and now Nitro-V at 60 RC With the nice and informative folks at PAUL Bos doing the HT for me over the years selling to home cooks, Papered Chefs & Private Chefs .. No complaints ever about edge retention and no chipping from those Darn hard poly & filthy cutting boards they have use by law here in Cauliflower in Restaurants
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top