No alternative to parks 50?

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Howdy folks, I'm just starting to get interested about heat treating so this thread is really a treat.:) It might have been insinuated in one of the many posts above but, can I ask this question? The blank blades are out of 1095 carbon steel. Blade # 1 is 1/8"x1/2"x5", blade #2 is 1/4"x1/2"x5", and blade # is 3/8"x1/2"x5". My question is, what would be the best soaking time for each blade? Just wondering about the relationship between mass and soaking time at required highest temperature
 
Tai Goo said:
I'd rather be the champion of ignorance than the champion of suckass! ;)
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Seriously?? Tai, I respect and admire your truly beautiful work, and your contributions to our craft very much, but that comment is just plain RUDE. I'm frankly dismayed and disheartened that you would use such coarse and hateful language towards a fellow knifemaker who openly shares his experience to help us all. You owe Page, and all of us in this community, an apology.

For cryin' out loud, let's all remember our manners, or at least a semblance of civility. We're all on the same team here, trying to make excellent knives.
 
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james terrio said:
Seriously?? Tai, I respect and admire your truly beautiful work, and your contributions to our craft very much, but that comment is just plain RUDE. I'm frankly dismayed and disheartened that you would use such coarse and hateful language towards a fellow knifemaker who openly shares his experience to help us all. You owe Page, and all of us in this community, an apology.

For cryin' out loud, let's all remember our manners, or at least a semblance of civility. We're all on the same team here, trying to make excellent knives.
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James, an apology? From Tai??? Good luck with that.
 
Erin - Don't need to spy....ratted yourself out.;)
I think you guys need to learn to read more inductively. I never said the best tools, techniques, supplies, etc. are bad or evil to have or aspire to have. I did say that they do not make you the best knifemaker.
As stated before...they are just the "bricks". If the mason is good a good house can be built. As Tai said - Pretty Simple. (Again - inductivley, I did not say making a good knife was simple).
Got two questions: 1. Robert how did you affirm the goat was a virgin? 2. On the "virgin's blood" thing....is there an opening for a QC agent? (Inductively guys! - it was goat pee that Robert was after not blood).
 
crex said:
Erin - Don't need to spy....ratted yourself out.;)
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Awe crap... now I gotta remove the claymore grid that I laid out last night. I hope I can remember where I put them all or the pug is gonna get one hell of a surprise when he heads out for his morning plant-watering. ;)
 
The really funny part about this thread is that, it is a thread about “Alternatives” to Parks #50, yet when someone gives an alternative to Parks #50 and tries to explain why they like it (or even prefer it),… all most you can say is, “Parks is better“, yada yada yada. It’s actually a predictable response, if you are threatened by the alternatives. It’s not about what you perceive to be the advantages of Parks #50. It’s about the alternatives.

Anyway, there’s a whole list of alternatives on this thread. If you don’t like any of them, then break down and get a bucket of Parks.
 
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Precisely

Tai Goo said:
The really funny part about this thread is that, it is a thread about “Alternatives” to Parks #50, yet when someone gives an alternative to Parks #50 and tries to explain why they like it (or even prefer it),… all most you can say is, “Parks is better“, yada yada yada. It’s actually a predictable response, if you are threatened by the alternatives. It’s not about what you perceive to be the advantages of Parks #50. It’s about the alternatives.

Anyway, there’s a whole list of alternatives on this thread. If you don’t like any of them, then break down and get a bucket of Parks.
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Thanks Bush Monkey! :)

To top it off, I think most people who gave an alternative also said what they think are the disadvantages of it. You can’t be any more fair than that. If there weren’t a few disadvantages to Parks #50, from a practical standpoint,… no one would be asking about the alternatives in the first place.
 
kelsil said:
Howdy folks, I'm just starting to get interested about heat treating so this thread is really a treat.:) It might have been insinuated in one of the many posts above but, can I ask this question? The blank blades are out of 1095 carbon steel. Blade # 1 is 1/8"x1/2"x5", blade #2 is 1/4"x1/2"x5", and blade # is 3/8"x1/2"x5". My question is, what would be the best soaking time for each blade? Just wondering about the relationship between mass and soaking time at required highest temperature
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If only I can find out the right amount of time to soak the above mentioned blades respectively at peak temp., I think that I'll be able to make the sharpest and toguhest blade out of 1095 with my alternative quenching solution. I'll just pee on it, turn on the oven to 475F and bake it for 2 hours, then air cool it. Best of luck to all.;)
 
Kelsil
Might depend on your liquid diet........geez another variable in the mix!

Robert
Hope you asked her out in front of the barn......If you get caught just one time behind the barn with one it'l give you a lasting reputation (how do I know.........I read alot!)
 
Tai Goo said:
Thanks Bush Monkey! :)

To top it off, I think most people who gave an alternative also said what they think are the disadvantages of it. You can’t be any more fair than that. If there weren’t a few disadvantages to Parks #50, from a practical standpoint,… no one would be asking about the alternatives in the first place.
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The big thing with me is that I don't like being "held hostage" by Parks, or any other manufacturer for that matter. So, I'm always looking for alternative products that are more readily available.
I know this is going to stir the pot, but I heard from some maker on Bladesmith's Forum (Don Fogg's site) that was using DOT 3 brake fluid from Walmart for his 1095. He said the stuff was FAST,and that he was NOT cracking blades with it.
I'm not recommending that anyone use it; don't know about the flash point or toxic fumes, or any of the other safety factors involved. But, I have 2 gals. sitting in my shop waiting to try.
 
A major metallurgical and heat treat firm in Fort Worth informed me that ANY oil will work very well for oil hardened steels. So far, I have not gotten any 01 tool steel in that is marked "Compatible with Parks 50 ONLY".

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Troop said:
The big thing with me is that I don't like being "held hostage" by Parks, or any other manufacturer for that matter. So, I'm always looking for alternative products that are more readily available.
I know this is going to stir the pot, but I heard from some maker on Bladesmith's Forum (Don Fogg's site) that was using DOT 3 brake fluid from Walmart for his 1095. He said the stuff was FAST,and that he was NOT cracking blades with it.
I'm not recommending that anyone use it; don't know about the flash point or toxic fumes, or any of the other safety factors involved. But, I have 2 gals. sitting in my shop waiting to try.
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BMK said:
A major metallurgical and heat treat firm in Fort Worth informed me that ANY oil will work very well for oil hardened steels. So far, I have not gotten any 01 tool steel in that is marked "Compatible with Parks 50 ONLY".

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You can't compare the hardening speed of O-1 to 1095. 1095 is the paramount bitch of oil hardening steels; O-1 will even air harden to the point where you would have one heck of a time to drill into it with cobalt bits. (Carbide bits will work, of course.)
I know you're just making a valid point. Something to the effect of "why use 1095, when O-1 will harden up great with pretty much any oil", right?
 
I think the idea that Parks is the ONLY good quench for 1095 might be a bit of a misconception, or that unless you use Parks #50 you MUST be compromising the quality of your work. I guess that's where I draw the line.

IDEALY the quench speed should be fast enough to get full hardness, but not a lot faster or slower. To error on either side just a little won’t make any difference from a practical standpoint. However, to error on either side too much will make a difference.

Just because a blade reached full hardness but didn’t crack, doesn’t necessarily mean the quench speed was perfect. Just short of cracking you can still have a blade that’s all stressed out with an excessive amount of micro fractures. The problem with pushing the steel to absolute full hardness is that you really won’t know how far over the line you went, unless you look at every square inch through a microscope. Since geometry also plays a major role in cooling rates, stresses etc, the equation gets even more complicated.

I just find it hard to believe that Parks #50 (or any alternative) is going to be ideal or perfect in every situation, even if we are only talking about 1095.
 
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Tai, Yes, point well taken about the blade not incurring any visible cracking, yet still be full cracks withing the micro-structure. I agree with you 110%.
I just figured I'd throw the brake fluid thing out there as one possible alternative.

The brake fluid may work great, for all we know, right?
 
Back in the old days they used brake fluid quite a bit and had satisfactory results.
 
BMK said:
A major metallurgical and heat treat firm in Fort Worth informed me that ANY oil will work very well for oil hardened steels. So far, I have not gotten any 01 tool steel in that is marked "Compatible with Parks 50 ONLY".
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Of course not.

As mentioned above, Oil speed is to be matched to steel type.
You can use TTT graphs for each steel to help select the oil.

I don't know of anyone recommending Parks #50 for O1, Parks AAA or others in the same speed range are more appropriate.



and re the brake fluid.
I know I can buy a proper quench oil & cheaper than brake fluid.
It's probably not as bad for my health either.
 
12345678910 said:
As mentioned above, Oil speed is to be matched to steel type.
You can use TTT graphs for each steel to help select the oil.
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That's too confusing for some folks. As Arthur C. Clarke said, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic :)

and re the brake fluid.
I know I can buy a proper quench oil & cheaper than brake fluid.
It's probably not as bad for my health either.
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Brake fluid is a witch's brew of glycol ethers that varies a lot from vendor to vendor, and like you imply, is toxic. At least ATF is just mineral oil with red dye and detergents...
 
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