No More Blades? Nah.

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gustophersmob said:
The question is why is Vic doing this now. I don’t know French knife laws, but my guess is they did not change recently. So why is victorinox choosing now to go down this path?
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1) Their goal is to sell multitools
2) some people don't have a use for multitools with blades (laws or, frankly, whatever reason)
3) by removing the blades, they can potentially get more multitools in more pockets.

Victorinox is making a decision that it thinks will make them money.
I'm inclined to agree. They've identified an untapped market.

gustophersmob said:
“In some markets, the blade creates an image of a weapon.“
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I'm sure Victorinox doesn't see their product as a weapon, but it's not what they think that matters.
Successful businesses find ways to adapt.

I don't know about you G gustophersmob , but I'd rather carry a bladeless SAK than nothing.
There's plenty of places that even Americans can't bring knives within our own country.
 
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Of all the folding knives I own and have owned (maybe 60-ish), the blades on the SAK are my least favorite. The folding tools are unparalleled in their lightness and portability, I don't even like to walk across the house without them in my pocket (along with a better knife).
I've never seen so many people act threatened by a pocket multitool before, it's not like they're going to stop making bladed models. I'd like to order one with pink and rainbow covers and parade it around here just to push buttons.
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if i buy a new SAK ittle be a Ranger Grip 79 ... and maybe a back-up Huntsman.
I "think" what I have now plus the Ranger Grip 79 is all I "want".

Note: "WANT" is not the same as "NEED". 🙄😇
 
Eh...
Just imagine super tinker and deluxe tinker and Huntsman, and others all without blades
That's basically what they're going to be putting out.
Real slow sells, only people in super small circles who are allergic to knives will be buying them. Welcome to the future discontinued models ✨️
It's their response to knife crime, no one uses a swiss army knife as a weapon lol...
 
gustophersmob said:
TSA is known to confiscate even knife-less tools, like the knife-less leathermen or the Vic jetsetter. I don’t think I’d risk the forced “donation” if they decided it didn’t pass muster as a carry on.
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They would be breaking their own rules, they allow on board scissors 4 inches from the Fulcrum, the jetsetter is in no way a violation of any tsa rules anywhere, whoever took them, are power tripping or don't know their own rules, challenge them.
 
gustophersmob said:
TSA is known to confiscate even knife-less tools, like the knife-less leathermen or the Vic jetsetter. I don’t think I’d risk the forced “donation” if they decided it didn’t pass muster as a carry on.
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There are specific rules to what can and can't be carried and if you're within those, I'm not worried. Just because it can happen doesn't mean it will happen often or often enough to care.

I've been checked 3 times for the tools I mentioned above in the last year. It's made it through each time as they compare it against their rules. No worries about checking things out.

A sak isn't usually expensive so I wouldb't care too much about losing one every other year or so, depending on how much they actually confiacate the items.

In either case, it still does not change the desire for a TSA-compliant MT, whether TSA will take it anyway or not. Just makes one of the desires for Vic making to add in "make it cheap" as a condition of the design, and many vics are quite cheap.
 
I’d like to see something in the Executive size that would have a pair of scissors and a few basic tools( Rambler cap lifter) that TSA would actually recognize and maybe even post on their website as authorized for flights. I don’t travel by plane as much as I used to but on the occasions I do it’d be nice to have something with some utility that I could take along if I didn’t check a bag.
 
gustophersmob said:
Or, you could understand that Victorinox responding to the framing of a SAK as a weapon is not good, without resorting to low effort insults like "MAGA." They aren't just "offering alternatives," they are responding to a narrative frame.

The issue is being framed such that a SAK is a weapon, and it appears that Victorinox is responding within that narrative frame. This is a quote from Carl Elsener in a different article about this that concerned me: “In some markets, the blade creates an image of a weapon.“

The “blade” isn’t creating the image, a narrative is being constructed (by dishonest people, imo) and that is what creates the image.

I think Vic would be better served long term to try and educate why a knife, especially a SAK, is a tool and not a weapon. And if they want to have bladeless models to meet demand, fine. Just not as an apparent capitulation to the crazies. They will never be satisfied anyway.
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The disease continues to spread.

I mean they kinda telegraphed this with the Companion model by promoting it as a way to express your femininity...

The Zieg said:
It's a good option!!
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I agree it's a good option. For 84 and 91mm models, it will take some redesigning though.

I will be interested to see how they are going to remove, replace or redesign the knife layer. The knife layer is the same layer with the cutout for the corkscrew or phillips screwdriver to fit.

For 93mm models, you could easily just delete the knife layer without any real modification to the design.

For 58mm models, you can omit the knife without redesigning anything. Just put a different tool in its place. They're interchangeable.
 
bikerector said:
There are specific rules to what can and can't be carried and if you're within those, I'm not worried. Just because it can happen doesn't mean it will happen often or often enough to care.

I've been checked 3 times for the tools I mentioned above in the last year. It's made it through each time as they compare it against their rules. No worries about checking things out.

A sak isn't usually expensive so I wouldb't care too much about losing one every other year or so, depending on how much they actually confiacate the items.

In either case, it still does not change the desire for a TSA-compliant MT, whether TSA will take it anyway or not. Just makes one of the desires for Vic making to add in "make it cheap" as a condition of the design, and many vics are quite cheap.
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Sak classics account for roughly 30% of the confiscated knives at My airport when I was there. More often than classics were wine openers with a little side blade with TERRIBLE play (i would always check for my amusement) to cut foil and bottle stuff. Anything expensive like a benchmade or Spyderco they go out and get it checked in, cheap stuff, unbranded stainless China they relinquish.
 
Guy McVer said:
The disease continues to spread.

I mean they kinda telegraphed this with the Companion model by promoting it as a way to express your femininity...
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I think this says more about you than about Victorinox.
They're just trying to increase product sales.
Others are reading into this like it's some big political statement.
 
ShaiHulud said:
More often than classics were wine openers with a little side blade with TERRIBLE play (i would always check for my amusement) to cut foil and bottle stuff.
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In my experience, those little foil cutters are usually terrible for anything other than cutting foil... and they don't even do a really good job on the foil as it is. Even the foil cutter on my Leatherman Juice Pro is pretty useless. To confiscate something like that is really a stretch in my opinion.
 
ShaiHulud said:
They would be breaking their own rules, they allow on board scissors 4 inches from the Fulcrum, the jetsetter is in no way a violation of any tsa rules anywhere, whoever took them, are power tripping or don't know their own rules, challenge them.
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bikerector said:
There are specific rules to what can and can't be carried and if you're within those, I'm not worried. Just because it can happen doesn't mean it will happen often or often enough to care.

I've been checked 3 times for the tools I mentioned above in the last year. It's made it through each time as they compare it against their rules. No worries about checking things out.

A sak isn't usually expensive so I wouldb't care too much about losing one every other year or so, depending on how much they actually confiacate the items.

In either case, it still does not change the desire for a TSA-compliant MT, whether TSA will take it anyway or not. Just makes one of the desires for Vic making to add in "make it cheap" as a condition of the design, and many vics are quite cheap.
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Yes there are rules, but everything is up to the specific TSA employee’s discretion. Whether it happens enough or the tools are cheap enough to risk it is obviously a personal decision. I’m only saying I won’t risk the “donation.”
 
Guy McVer said:
In my experience, those little foil cutters are usually terrible for anything other than cutting foil... and they don't even do a really good job on the foil as it is. Even the foil cutter on my Leatherman Juice Pro is pretty useless. To confiscate something like that is really a stretch in my opinion.
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"Still a knife" some were so dull I would even demonstrate to the passenger by pressing down hard on the edge and reveal a semi red line on my thumb. But rules are rules. And they don't make sense, cause people would bring crochet needles and large scissors, perfectly ok. It's dumbfounding
 
EngrSorenson said:
I think this says more about you than about Victorinox.
They're just trying to increase product sales.
Others are reading into this like it's some big political statement.
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Victorinox is responding to an issue that is political in both its framing and propagation.

If it was merely to maintain sales for those in restrictive environments or air travelers, why not announce this on 9/12/2001 when that sales channel went from basically no restrictions to completely cut off?

The trend of governments and media treating knives as primarily weapons has been going on for many years, and now the SAK, which has historically been somewhat immune from this trend, is being dragged in. Both the timing of the announcement by victorinox and the statement by Carl Elsener give the impression this is driven by the political and not just organic sales trends/market demand.

Edit to add: I'm really not trying to be argumentative, just trying to adequately express my point that this isn't an unmitigated good and there are political considerations (and not just "MAGA"). Ultimately, it doesn't matter as I can't change the way a SAK is viewed on a large scale, and I don't advise Victorinox. Hopefully whatever bladeless tools they develop are cool (and hopefully some in alox). Now that I think about it, if they're developing new tools, maybe they could bring back 84mm scissors so we can have a cadet X as well as a bladeless 84mm with scissors.
 
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gustophersmob said:
Victorinox is responding to an issue that is political in both its framing and propagation.

If it was merely to maintain sales for those in restrictive environments or air travelers, why not announce this on 9/12/2001 when that sales channel went from basically no restrictions to completely cut off?

The trend of governments and media treating knives as primarily weapons has been going on for many years, and now the SAK, which has historically been somewhat immune from this trend, is being dragged in. Both the timing of the announcement by victorinox and the statement by Carl Elsener give the impression this is driven by the political and not just organic sales trends/market demand.
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I think the article is pretty clear on the subject.
“We are in the early stages of developing pocket tools without blades,” a spokesperson for the company told CNN. Though it won’t be discontinuing its bladed version, the company has been trying to figure out how to serve customers in places — specifically England and some Asian countries — where knives aren’t as welcome a pocket sight than in other markets.
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If I was selling Cubano sandwiches in the middle east, you bet I'd offer one with a substitute for the pork.

You bet the issue is political - in some places, it's illegal to have a pocket knife.
If it's illegal for people to carry your product, you bet you're going to adapt changes to your product to make it legal for them.
Even if the country's culture is just unaccepting of pocket knives, you adjust for that and boom, you get rid of a barrier.

As for the timing aspect? you can speculate all you want, but it's merely speculation.
I could equally speculate that the recent down turn in Victorinox knife sales during COVID have pushed the company in a direction where they need to open up a market that, otherwise, wouldn't be open to them.
Perhaps the Jetsetter ended up being a popular model in some countries and they see there's opportunity there, even if it missed the mark with TSA.
I could do this all day.

If Victorinox was changing over their whole 10 million knife-a-year production to bladeless multitools, I'd be right there with you, but that's not what's happening here.
They're offering a few knives to a previously unreached market. Sounds like a reasonable move that a company would take.
 
EngrSorenson said:
I think the article is pretty clear on the subject.


If I was selling Cubano sandwiches in the middle east, you bet I'd offer one with a substitute for the pork.

You bet the issue is political - in some places, it's illegal to have a pocket knife.
If it's illegal for people to carry your product, you bet you're going to adapt changes to your product to make it legal for them.
Even if the country's culture is just unaccepting of pocket knives, you adjust for that and boom, you get rid of a barrier.

As for the timing aspect? you can speculate all you want, but it's merely speculation.
I could equally speculate that the recent down turn in Victorinox knife sales during COVID have pushed the company in a direction where they need to open up a market that, otherwise, wouldn't be open to them.
Perhaps the Jetsetter ended up being a popular model in some countries and they see there's opportunity there, even if it missed the mark with TSA.
I could do this all day.

If Victorinox was changing over their whole 10 million knife-a-year production to bladeless multitools, I'd be right there with you, but that's not what's happening here.
They're offering a few knives to a previously unreached market. Sounds like a reasonable move that a company would take.
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Again, none of those knife laws are new. What has changed recently is SAKs in particular being treated as weapons.
 
gustophersmob said:
Again, none of those knife laws are new. What has changed recently is SAKs in particular being treated as weapons.
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What changed recently was a downturn in Victorinox knife sales that they're just now starting to get out from under.

Is there some specific event you're referring to that I'm not aware of? or is this one of those "impressions"?
 
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