SOLVED LionSteel cust. service or the dealer

[chambelona59]

First... we all know knives are tools and meant to be used.... knives are meant to show wear eventually, so there's point in debating that.
However, when I purchase several knives from a company totaling $780.95, there should not be any shoddy work or poor tolerances.
If the knives were used or previously owned it would be a different story... the knives in question that I received were "new".

Q.C. / Quality Control exists so a product does not leave the factory floor unless it passes inspection.
When someone spends $780.95 on several knives or any amount of money, it should not be a roll of the dice whether what is received is high quality in fit/finish/tolerances.

I purchased six "Lion Steel Shuffer's" (slip joint knives) from U.S. dealer "Collector Knives" totaling $780.95, unfortunately four out of six have issues, the other two are perfect.
Additionally, none of the "LionSteel" boxes the knives arrived to me in had names or product codes on them.

The dealer has not responded to an email and the manufacturer has not responded to three or four emails.

The issues:

Model: "Shuffler" clip point slip joints.

#1 Stag Horn. ** 1 rear screw not "set in" correctly, not 'flush' with scale as all others were has now fell out. Photos.

#2 Bocote Wood. ** Has an obvious piece of wood chipped out or cracked next to 1 front screw. Photos.

#3 Black Carbon Fiber. ** came with obvious scratches on the blade.
Photo.

#4 Natural Micarta. ** Scratch on blade. Photos.

#5 White Carbon Fiber. **"no problems/no issues/perfect".

#6 Rams Horn. ** "No problems/no issues /perfect".

I emailed detailed photos and descriptions of the issues to the dealer "Collector Knives" and NEVER heard back from them.
I have emailed "LionSteel" three or four times describing in full the issues including photos.
And stated I'm willing to pay for if necessary 1 or more replacement screws.

At this point, one of the screws that was never 'set into' the Stag scale/knife correctly has fallen out and I requested from LionSteel a replacement or few of them which I will gladly pay for if necessary.
All of the other knives have the screws set in correctly... 'flush' or slightly below the surface of the scale as they should be.... however the one (1) screw in question had an obvious problem when it was first received by me, the screw was raised up protruding up above the scale, very noticeable especially when felt with the thumb or any finger and could not be screwed down into the scale.

At this point I really want to resolve the problem with the screw that fell out.
Again, at this point, I'd like to request a replacement screw or a few of them which I will gladly pay for if necessary (photos enclosed of the original screw not "set into" scale correctly and then missing after it fell out(.

I have had ZERO response from both the dealer 'Collector Knifes' as well as the manufacturer 'LionSteel'.

 

[Ramrodmb]

I'm not sure how much time has passed but I am 100% sure knifeswapper will be in touch with you. I think he has been rather busy this week.

 

[Nautique]

Both my shuffler & roundhead came in unlabeled boxes.

 

[Ajack60]

Providing a time frame would be helpful to understand what's going on. Has it been a week, two weeks, a day or an hour ???
Did you try calling CK during their business hours ?
Did you send him a PM ?
After all, you should give knifeswapper a chance to defend himself before making premature accusations.
No doubt, some of the knives has had minor issues, as far as I know, CK addressed all the issues that anyone has had. I've read here:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/lionsteel-shuffler.1519550/
There's also a thread about the Roundhead.

 

[chambelona59]

Providing a time frame would be helpful to understand what's going on. Has it been a week, two weeks, a day or an hour ???
Did you try calling CK during their business hours ?
Did you send him a PM ?
After all, you should give knifeswapper a chance to defend himself before making premature accusations.
No doubt, some of the knives has had minor issues, as far as I know, CK addressed all the issues that anyone has had. I've read here:
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/lionsteel-shuffler.1519550/
There's also a thread about the Roundhead.

Not "attacking" onyone, I'm stating my first experience/s with both entities which this forum gives anyone the choice to do.

You state: "No doubt, some of the knives has had minor issues", agreed as I stated.
What is "minor" for one person is not acceptable or minor to another person.

If you personally require a time frame, about 2 to 2 a half weeks for one and a week for the other after 3 to 4 emails.

As far as recommending other threads/posts, I've read them all awhile ago, no interest in their Roundhead, only interested in stating my own experience and somehow getting LionSteel to send me 1 or several replacement screws which as I stated I'm willing to pay for if necessary, post speaks for itself.

 

[knifeswapper]

What is your order number?

 

[tyyreaun]

I'm sure Mike with sort you out.

That being said, the issues you're showing are about what I'd expect from the Italian knife manufacturers - Lionsteel, Fox, Viper, Maserin, etc. They're not exactly synonymous with quality control. See, for example, the issue the Cedric and Ada channel had with a Maserin-built Steel Will in "M390".

 

[knifeswapper]

If you sent communications to us, I will post fully what was received and what the exact responses were as soon as you give an order number.

As to your issues:

1) The screws are set at a depth from the liner, not freehand. Thus, as in your slab, when the stag varies a little bit in thickness end to end - both screws may not be sunk the same depth. There are two lengths of screws available and yours came with the short screw which was making full thread contact when it left the factory. Thus, at this point I doubt a short screws is going to work unless it was the screw that was stripped instead of the liner. And the long screw may extend inside the frame a little as to be visible. Either way, the factory has supplied me with a limited number of replacements. But, as in any case, credit is always a solution.

2) Woods have natural cracks and caused cracks. But it is a piece missing. We can't fix it, thus credit is the solution.

3&4) I am from traditionals, so it will take me a while to get accustomed to this macro lens scratch picture being referenced as a defect. Not being snide, just that my knives have about 15 more brothers for a scratch like that before I even take it off the Wicked Edge system. I took back another one like this last week and although it looks like a neon sign in these pictures - I legitimately had to take it outside and manipulate the angle for 10 seconds to pick it up. But, again, we can't fix it; thus credit is the solution.

We have an RMA form, and 888 number, a contact form, and an email address. You didn't submit an RMA nor call the 888 number; that's established. The rest I can respond to after your information arrives.

 

[B.F.U]

Mine had a small machining defect/mark on the backspring but I didn't think it was worth sending back. The screw on your stag looks high enough to be an issue to me. Other than that I probably wouldn't have noticed the issues. When I've called Mike has been helpful, though I do think he's probably stretched thin right now with the Lionsteels and 77s.

 

[rje58]

Collectors Knives has awesome customer service! I own two Roundheads and a Shuffler and have some of the future models (ie. Dom, Shuffler2, Roundhead3) on reserve.

Most knives I buy or own, I can find an "issue" when I go after them with a loupe. Especially traditionals with stag! Which is why I almost never purchase stag knives any more, they seem to have the most issues of the common materials these days. Wood is another that often has issues, and with these, some of them don't show up for months or years then you get shrinkage, slight warps, cracks, etc, depending on how and when and if they were stabilized.

 

[blanco112]

I was disappointed in my micarta Roundhead due to some odd "cuts" in the micarta and emailed CK about it. Mike was pretty quick to respond and took back the knife but I had to eat the shipping both ways even though I opted for the store credit.

 

[knifeswapper]

I was disappointed in my micarta Roundhead due to some odd "cuts" in the micarta and emailed CK about it. Mike was pretty quick to respond and took back the knife but I had to eat the shipping both ways even though I opted for the store credit.

Micarta is multiple layers of a fabric. What you are calling "cuts" were just fabric lines that were not on the surface. There were several of the micarta like that; but I think we have had that discussion. My apologies that you were not happy with the transaction.

 

[knifeswapper]

OK, I found the email. It was a response to the automated email from our store for product feedback. I read it carefully and immediately discussed the issues with Lion Steel. They explained the screw issue; but agreed the other things are simply non-defect issues that happen on production knives. But as the email was a response to my request for feedback and requested no action whatsoever, it did not occur to me that I was expected to follow up further. As I said, we have an RMA system and an 888 number if there are issues you do not feel are addressed sufficiently. My apologies if you feel that you were waiting on me to respond. I took your email as a response to requested feedback. Send them all back immediately - we will issue a refund.

 

[blanco112]

Micarta is multiple layers of a fabric. What you are calling "cuts" were just fabric lines that were not on the surface. There were several of the micarta like that; but I think we have had that discussion. My apologies that you were not happy with the transaction.

We did and it's fine. I do think Lionsteel should take a look at their micarta because it is avoidable but I get you don't make the knives.

 

[chambelona59]

If you sent communications to us, I will post fully what was received and what the exact responses were as soon as you give an order number.

As to your issues:

1) The screws are set at a depth from the liner, not freehand. Thus, as in your slab, when the stag varies a little bit in thickness end to end - both screws may not be sunk the same depth. There are two lengths of screws available and yours came with the short screw which was making full thread contact when it left the factory. Thus, at this point I doubt a short screws is going to work unless it was the screw that was stripped instead of the liner. And the long screw may extend inside the frame a little as to be visible. Either way, the factory has supplied me with a limited number of replacements. But, as in any case, credit is always a solution.

2) Woods have natural cracks and caused cracks. But it is a piece missing. We can't fix it, thus credit is the solution.

3&4) I am from traditionals, so it will take me a while to get accustomed to this macro lens scratch picture being referenced as a defect. Not being snide, just that my knives have about 15 more brothers for a scratch like that before I even take it off the Wicked Edge system. I took back another one like this last week and although it looks like a neon sign in these pictures - I legitimately had to take it outside and manipulate the angle for 10 seconds to pick it up. But, again, we can't fix it; thus credit is the solution.

We have an RMA form, and 888 number, a contact form, and an email address. You didn't submit an RMA nor call the 888 number; that's established. The rest I can respond to after your information arrives.

If you sent communications to us, I will post fully what was received and what the exact responses were as soon as you give an order number.

As to your issues:

1) The screws are set at a depth from the liner, not freehand. Thus, as in your slab, when the stag varies a little bit in thickness end to end - both screws may not be sunk the same depth. There are two lengths of screws available and yours came with the short screw which was making full thread contact when it left the factory. Thus, at this point I doubt a short screws is going to work unless it was the screw that was stripped instead of the liner. And the long screw may extend inside the frame a little as to be visible. Either way, the factory has supplied me with a limited number of replacements. But, as in any case, credit is always a solution.

2) Woods have natural cracks and caused cracks. But it is a piece missing. We can't fix it, thus credit is the solution.

3&4) I am from traditionals, so it will take me a while to get accustomed to this macro lens scratch picture being referenced as a defect. Not being snide, just that my knives have about 15 more brothers for a scratch like that before I even take it off the Wicked Edge system. I took back another one like this last week and although it looks like a neon sign in these pictures - I legitimately had to take it outside and manipulate the angle for 10 seconds to pick it up. But, again, we can't fix it; thus credit is the solution.

We have an RMA form, and 888 number, a contact form, and an email address. You didn't submit an RMA nor call the 888 number; that's established. The rest I can respond to after your information arrives.

What is your order number?

Thank you for your response, the order was #21461.
Before the several knives arrived, I spoke once briefly to a Man who sounded cordial and professional over the phone.
I sent CK a standard email stating everything I mentioned above and included all the same photos as above, I additionally sent a text only within in the CK web sites message page, that was approximately two weeks ago, I never heard back from anyone, I then tried contacting the manufacturer LS via their service@ email address and unfortunately no response, while on the LS web site I tried to register my knives received but was unable to as the registration form requires the serial #'s and other info on each box and the boxes I received do not have any info knife names or serial #'s.

As far as the screw issue, there are two screws per each scale and two per each bolster, in my case that's a total of 48 screws... only one (1) was not set in correctly, it was really much above the scale compared to all the others and it eventually fell out somewhere... all the other 47 screws are set in perfectly, which suggests to me it was not caught upon assembly nor prior to being sent out by CK.
As far as scratches on the two blades, if you look at the one on the black CF blade, it's pretty easy to see it came from some kind of power tool briefly coming in contact with the surface of the metal.
Nothing in life is perfect, but in my opinion these things should not be overlooked after assembly.

As mentioned, all I hope to achieve is to receive one or few replacement screws for the screw that came out of the stag scale.

 

[knifeswapper]

Thank you for your response, the order was #21461.
Before the several knives arrived, I spoke once briefly to a Man who sounded cordial and professional over the phone.
I sent CK a standard email stating everything I mentioned above and included all the same photos as above, I additionally sent a text only within in the CK web sites message page, that was approximately two weeks ago, I never heard back from anyone, I then tried contacting the manufacturer LS via their service@ email address and unfortunately no response, while on the LS web site I tried to register my knives received but was unable to as the registration form requires the serial #'s and other info on each box and the boxes I received do not have any info knife names or serial #'s.

As far as the screw issue, there are two screws per each scale and two per each bolster, in my case that's a total of 48 screws... only one (1) was not set in correctly, it was really much above the scale compared to all the others and it eventually fell out somewhere... all the other 47 screws are set in perfectly, which suggests to me it was not caught upon assembly nor prior to being sent out by CK.
As far as scratches on the two blades, if you look at the one on the black CF blade, it's pretty easy to see it came from some kind of power tool briefly coming in contact with the surface of the metal.
Nothing in life is perfect, but in my opinion these things should not be overlooked after assembly.

As mentioned, all I hope to achieve is to receive one or few replacement screws for the screw that came out of the stag scale.

Let me start by saying, a couple screws is no problem. Send an email requesting "Short and Long Slab Screw for Stag". And then let me finish with a little more analysis since I now have a thread in GB&U with a big red BAD in front of it with a lot of mentioning of my business name inside.

1) You spoke to me, because it is a one-man show. There is a fine woman, but she mainly shrink wraps boxes and lends moral support 24 hours / day.

2) The email that was sent to you for feedback, that you replied to, is above. In this email, there is no request for assistance nor action on our part. To be honest, it reads a bit like someone that knows they are being somewhat particular about their knives - and that is fine. Sometimes folks just want to let us know that they know the knife is not perfect. Times have changed the way we look at knives; 20 years ago they were tools, now they are fine jewelry. We don't sell custom knives, we sell knives made by hands and power tools in large batches. The factories are still trying to improve where they can. We looked at the pictures and briefly discussed the issues with LionSteel on our next conversation. We have these conversations very often as they want to know about any issues so they can be corrected if possible.

3) I don't know why LionSteel did not put labels on the boxes these last two deliveries. Not a big deal, the part numbers are on your emailed invoice and at the links in the email you were sent above. But, they are relatively new to contracted knives left under their name. But you weren't going to send the knives to Italy anyway, so let's talk about the screws...

4) You neither mentioned anything about a screw missing nor stripped in your only communication with us (above). You say that "all the same photos as above" were in your email to us - but no picture of a screw missing from a slab was present in the pictures your sent us [I can post those as well if needed, but you have the "Sent" email on your end too for confirmation]. So, no mention of a screw issue other than not countersunk to match, and no picture of a missing screw. Which is pretty much what you have now decided was the only real issue that needed resolution. How would I have known to start the process of getting you some screws?

You weren't going to send the knives back to me for a refund. And you weren't going to pay to send them to Italy for correction. And the screw was intact, if a bit proud, when you contacted me the one/only time. So at the time of the one and only communication with me, what was your anticipated response? Again, the email is above.

Solutions: If the short screw is not getting good threading at this point, another short screw will probably not help - unless it eventually stripped. And the long screw will probably go all the way thru the liner and be visible, but not obtrusive. But if you take a screw off the other side and put it in where the missing one was, we can determine if the old one got stripped and fell out (new one will work); or if the liner is a bit stripped and a long one will be needed (new one does not work). Neither way, will the screw set any lower - so if that bothers you, send the knife back for refund. But if you have a micrometer and measure from the liner to the top of the screw head - it will be exactly the same on the screw nearest the bolster as it is on the bare end. Only the stag thickness varies, that is why is was not countersunk as much.

I don't know what kind of communication you sent LionSteel, and really couldn't speculate. But if it was to lodge the same observations, consider them lodged. They treat these like contract knives, for the most part - and want me to handle U.S. interactions. If it was for actual screw replacements, they have allocated that to me now that I have some in stock.

 

[chambelona59]

Let me start by saying, a couple screws is no problem. Send an email requesting "Short and Long Slab Screw for Stag". And then let me finish with a little more analysis since I now have a thread in GB&U with a big red BAD in front of it with a lot of mentioning of my business name inside.

1) You spoke to me, because it is a one-man show. There is a fine woman, but she mainly shrink wraps boxes and lends moral support 24 hours / day.

2) The email that was sent to you for feedback, that you replied to, is above. In this email, there is no request for assistance nor action on our part. To be honest, it reads a bit like someone that knows they are being somewhat particular about their knives - and that is fine. Sometimes folks just want to let us know that they know the knife is not perfect. Times have changed the way we look at knives; 20 years ago they were tools, now they are fine jewelry. We don't sell custom knives, we sell knives made by hands and power tools in large batches. The factories are still trying to improve where they can. We looked at the pictures and briefly discussed the issues with LionSteel on our next conversation. We have these conversations very often as they want to know about any issues so they can be corrected if possible.

3) I don't know why LionSteel did not put labels on the boxes these last two deliveries. Not a big deal, the part numbers are on your emailed invoice and at the links in the email you were sent above. But, they are relatively new to contracted knives left under their name. But you weren't going to send the knives to Italy anyway, so let's talk about the screws...

4) You neither mentioned anything about a screw missing nor stripped in your only communication with us (above). You say that "all the same photos as above" were in your email to us - but no picture of a screw missing from a slab was present in the pictures your sent us [I can post those as well if needed, but you have the "Sent" email on your end too for confirmation]. So, no mention of a screw issue other than not countersunk to match, and no picture of a missing screw. Which is pretty much what you have now decided was the only real issue that needed resolution. How would I have known to start the process of getting you some screws?

You weren't going to send the knives back to me for a refund. And you weren't going to pay to send them to Italy for correction. And the screw was intact, if a bit proud, when you contacted me the one/only time. So at the time of the one and only communication with me, what was your anticipated response? Again, the email is above.

Solutions: If the short screw is not getting good threading at this point, another short screw will probably not help - unless it eventually stripped. And the long screw will probably go all the way thru the liner and be visible, but not obtrusive. But if you take a screw off the other side and put it in where the missing one was, we can determine if the old one got stripped and fell out (new one will work); or if the liner is a bit stripped and a long one will be needed (new one does not work). Neither way, will the screw set any lower - so if that bothers you, send the knife back for refund. But if you have a micrometer and measure from the liner to the top of the screw head - it will be exactly the same on the screw nearest the bolster as it is on the bare end. Only the stag thickness varies, that is why is was not countersunk as much.

I don't know what kind of communication you sent LionSteel, and really couldn't speculate. But if it was to lodge the same observations, consider them lodged. They treat these like contract knives, for the most part - and want me to handle U.S. interactions. If it was for actual screw replacements, they have allocated that to me now that I have some in stock.

I don't have the patience to read all that, you can give as many reasons as you wish, however:
"reads a bit like someone that knows they are being somewhat particular about their knives"
That's correct, at $780.95 I'm dam "somewhat particular".

Re: "So, no mention of a screw issue other than not countersunk to match, and no picture of a missing screw." ... The screw fell out a day or two after the first photo was taken.

I'm not interested in reading any analyzing of my text or photos or defensive excuses: "because it is a one-man show.... "There is a fine woman" etc.
I'm very happy you have a fine Woman helping out.

After two emails to "CK" that I received no response from CK and after 3 to 4 emails to LionSteel with still no response back I won't keep chasing anyone, the customer service from any company is either stellar or it's not stellar.

There's a reason Blade Forums provides a "FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" and anyone is afforded the opportunity to post their experience/s whether The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.
When someone does not post a glowingly positive experience the Fanboys and Fangirls will inevitably show up and start with their usual defensive or angry retorts, that's unfortunately to be expected.
I won't waste time responding to them.

I will not debate it, the text and photos clearly show the issues I encountered.
If neither company has any interest in sending replacement screws, I'll unfortunately just come to the realization that the knives in question were relatively inexpensive to produce and LionSteels (or someones) Quality Control was asleep on the job.

Save the 10 commandments and a pen, I prefer well made knives and screws set in correctly.
As I mentioned, I am willing to pay for replacement screws but unwilling to make it a roll of the dice and hope I receive a stellar product again from either company.

By all means I'm happy to change "Bad" to "perfectly resolved".
Feel free to contact me by private message in here or alternatively via my personal email which you already have.
Thank you very much.

 

[Chariotz4]

I don't have the patience to read all that

...one would think that reading the responding post of the dealer you are trying to resolve your issue(s?) with in its entirety would be a good idea no? Anyways, best of luck to both parties in getting a resolution that satisfies both involved.

 

[Ramrodmb]

I don't have the patience to read all that, you can give as many reasons as you wish, however:
"reads a bit like someone that knows they are being somewhat particular about their knives"
That's correct, at $780.95 I'm dam "somewhat particular".

Re: "So, no mention of a screw issue other than not countersunk to match, and no picture of a missing screw." ... The screw fell out a day or two after the first photo was taken.

I'm not interested in reading any analyzing of my text or photos or defensive excuses: "because it is a one-man show.... "There is a fine woman" etc.
I'm very happy you have a fine Woman helping out.

After two emails to "CK" that I received no response from CK and after 3 to 4 emails to LionSteel with still no response back I won't keep chasing anyone, the customer service from any company is either stellar or it's not stellar.

There's a reason Blade Forums provides a "FEEDBACK: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly" and anyone is afforded the opportunity to post their experience/s whether The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.
When someone does not post a glowingly positive experience the Fanboys and Fangirls will inevitably show up and start with their usual defensive or angry retorts, that's unfortunately to be expected.
I won't waste time responding to them.

I will not debate it, the text and photos clearly show the issues I encountered.
If neither company has any interest in sending replacement screws, I'll unfortunately just come to the realization that the knives in question were relatively inexpensive to produce and LionSteels (or someones) Quality Control was asleep on the job.

Save the 10 commandments and a pen, I prefer well made knives and screws set in correctly.
As I mentioned, I am willing to pay for replacement screws but unwilling to make it a roll of the dice and hope I receive a stellar product again from either company.

By all means I'm happy to change "Bad" to "perfectly resolved".
Feel free to contact me by private message in here or alternatively via my personal email which you already have.
Thank you very much.

Let me quote you before you make anymore edits.
If you were smart enough to read the response, you would have what you need to fix your "screw loose". As it is, you have shown your true colors and there is no fixing stupid.piss off.Ignore

 

[knifeswapper]

I can capitalize it or bold face it. You have had no direct communication with my company about needing any screws or even the fact that there was a problem with the screws other than one sitting proud. You chose to resolve it here, thus we are doing the best we can to accommodate you.

If you do decide to read the rest of the note, you will get to the "Solutions" section. Having a customer with a knife that may not be improved because they will not do as requested, benefits nobody. You can send the knife back or follow the instructions. If you determine which screw you need, it will be sent pro gratis in the morning.