Non-knife people worry me.

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If we ban them all, maybe we'll be as safe as Mexico!

--and how is it we so quickly forget the Danish massacre, which was about 4 x worse than CT in terms of lives lost. --- Not even the cops cary guns there!
---or the mall massacre in the Netherlands, or ...

The fact is Violent crime is low in the US compared with most of these gun-free European countries---especially violent-crime leader, UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...73/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html

Antis will say, "But the US has more gunshot homicide!" obscuring the fact that most are ruled "justified" (i.e. people responding to immediate threat to life.)

I guess a lot of people here disagree, but in my world, a woman shooting an attacking rapist, for instance, is a proper use for a firearm, not an act of incivility and barbarism on her part. Any self-defense that spares the innocent death or great bodily harm is a proper use of a firearm.
 
JCaswell said:
I guess a lot of people here disagree, but in my world, a woman shooting an attacking rapist, for instance, is a proper use for a firearm, not an act of incivility and barbarism on her part. Any self-defense that spares the innocent death or great bodily harm is a proper use of a firearm.
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I do not disagree at all, you said it right.
 
I used to have the very same stance that has been repeatedly brought up here, but over time there were some facts that popped up that made me reevaluate that position.

In terms of banning hi-cap mags and regulating "assault weapons," I am as against them as I ever was. Regulation of mags and firearms (and knives) has not done anything for us historically, and whatever Feinstein is trying to push right now in congress couldn't be more misguided.

On the other hand, the numbers tell us that the way firearms are in the US does injure and kill more people. Of all the high-income countries with guns, our gun-related death toll is 7 times higher than the next, and the grisly shootings that happen every so often don't help either. In a nutshell I do think we have a gun problem, and it starts with high-risk owners.

I think most of us on the knife/gun forums are law-abiding citizens who'd never go dispatch someone if we didnt have a choice, and for people like us, regulation and control makes absolutely no sense. On the other hand, there are some high risk groups like teens and ex-felons who society should be weary about--those are the guys who screw things up for the rest of us. I 100% think that those groups should be regulated, and I think that would do us all some good.

Here's a study about it. As a disclaimer it is a bit pro-regulation but the numbers speak for themselves. http://www.jhsph.edu/research/centers-and-institutes/johns-hopkins-center-for-gun-policy-and-research/publications/WhitePaper102512_CGPR.pdf
 
The general wussification of the American populace is disgusting to me. A nation of spineless twits who have no clue about the realities of the world. No wonder we're headed down the drain...
 
kyleairborne said:
Remember the guarantee to keep and bear arms wasn't established to guarantee your right to hunt. It was established
So that if your government was no longer representative of the will of the people, we could change it. Would
You really want to face the % of the armed forces who forgot that we swear to support and defend the constitution
Of the united states of america against all enemies forgein and DOMESTIC with only a bolt action rifle? For anyone
Who says this could/would never happen, would you bet your freedoms on it? I know this is a little strong for my first post but
Also keep in mind 1/2 my life had been spent in defense of the U.S. Constituion, and I continue to serve. I
Have seen other forms of governance first hand and we have the best thing going.
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Exactly. The 2nd Amendment is intended for the defense of the people FROM THE GOVERNMENT should it become abusive and out of control. It's not about duck hunting, target shooting or home defense. It's about the potential need to reign in a tyrannical government (something that nearly all governments in history have eventually evolved into when they were left unchecked). Bolt action rifles and shotguns won't cut it for that task. The Founders were intimately familiar with tyranny and the tendencies for governments to become increasingly abusive and controlling. The Founders insisted that the right to be armed to avoid such abuses is crucial to a free people.

Those who cannot grasp this concept are naive and have not paid attention to the lessons of history. Sadly many Americans fall into this category.
 
The only way to stop lethal force is with lethal force. I understand and can relate to people who think that if a large number of people start shooting a someone trying to murder an innocent person, you might kill more innocent people. But I feel like the most efficient way to stop someone with a gun, is to use a gun. The really scary thing to me is that people are getting so scared of "possible" threats that they are willing to give away their freedoms. If giving away your freedom isn't scary I don't know what is. Arizonaranchman is right, history often repeats itself, do some research on what has happened in the past when gun control was established.
 
Ninja,
The "numbers" forwarded by anti-gun groups are notoriously unreliable.
An easy example of the dishonesty going around today is the fact that they're talking about "gun deaths" as if most of those are not people defending AGAINST violent crime. It's purposefully deceptive to lump successful self defense with the criminal use of firearms.
They also routinely ignore the best sources of numbers, like FBI crime statistical annual.
The Kleck report involves aggregation of the FBI numbers. Something like 2.2 million instances of firearms used in self defense every year in the US each year?
I suppose our violent crime rate would almost be as high as some of the gun-control utopias of Europe if those 2.2 million violent crimes were not stopped by people with guns.
 
As for the dog farting...
[video=youtube;PSKQ3ZNQ_O8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSKQ3ZNQ_O8[/video]

This hippo just saw a buck vantage pro.
 
arizonaranchman said:
Those who cannot grasp this concept are naive and have not paid attention to the lessons of history. Sadly many Americans fall into this category.
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I think unless you have actively fought for your freedom to exercise your rights, you can't possibly understand the value of having the right to assert your rights. Look at the millions of people who can't take an hour out of their lives to go and vote.
 
arizonaranchman said:
Exactly. The 2nd Amendment is intended for the defense of the people FROM THE GOVERNMENT should it become abusive and out of control. It's not about duck hunting, target shooting or home defense. It's about the potential need to reign in a tyrannical government (something that nearly all governments in history have eventually evolved into when they were left unchecked).
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Gosh and here I thought that was what something called "voting" was for. What are the first three words of the Constitution? We, the PEOPLE. Not, we the government. The fact is, unless you have a couple hundred (or rather, thousand) nukes on hand, you're not gonna be protecting yourself from the tyrannical gubmint with a Bushmaster and a few Glocks. Not that it will come to that, unless you're a lunatic like David Koresh...
 
Very interesting thread.
I come from another cultural knot. We have similarities and differences with US and the rest of the world. We had an armed revolution 200 years ago and armed resistance against the Germans during WWII. On the other hand we had Vendetta customs (as Sicilians did) and lots of hunting guns in accidents or jealousy crimes. And thousands of Albanian AK47, the vast majority in the hands of antisocial criminals (of any nationality).
Guns are banned here and I have to test people (I am a Psychiatrist) in order to give them a license. Of course criminals don't use licensed guns and people I examine might get manic or drunk or demented or hallucinated after some drug tomorrow. So I worry.
On the other hand I like guns (I don't own one) and knives (I mostly own SAKs, although I have a couple of knives able to do much damage).
It is a complicated matter. I believe that they should be available to everybody freely (as was the case historically for most civilizations) but also acknowledge the fact that a criminal will always have a better gun and greater experience and skills using them than the average lady.
And militarization of societies always proved wrong in the long term. You can't have the strongest and better armed army in Earth, training lots of people and sending them all around the globe carrying state of the art weapons, from assault riffles to nuclears and expect at the same time that you'll keep your soil sterilized from guns (or that the army won't play eventually a role in politics or trafficking, smuggling etc).
Perhaps, together with guns and knives, people should get a lot of education in order to acquire a peaceful spirit and enjoy those artifacts mainly for their mechanical, aesthetical, historical or other higher properties (which they have) and learn to conceptualize them as tools or collectables and not as means of expressing their aggressive instincts.
I just expressed my unresolved thoughts, without the intention to hurt anybody's feelings about their guns and knives, nationality or ideas. If my English didn't help me to deliver what was intended I'll ask you to forgive me.
 
Your English is better than most Americans. Thank you for your outside view. Where are you from? Greece maybe?

Merry Christmas
 
Yes, Greece.
Thucydides said that "All Greeks were carrying iron (weapons) because their settlements were without walls and their roads unsafe, so they used to live with arms, as barbarians did". He also said that " Athenians were the first to stop carrying arms and, living a more convenient life, they had more mild customs" (Α΄ 6).
So this is an ancient debate. Athenians were fierce warriors (remember Marathon and that they were the only people that troubled Spartans) but they didn't carry arms in the city and they used Scythian archers as a police force because they were considered barbarians and therefore could carry weapons. Spartans were almost always dressed for battle. Two different ways of viewing civilian armament, even from then.
 
sometime 30 or 40 years ago people suddenly forgot the definitions of "infamous" and "famous". they are not the same thing.
(about the same time people decided the word "pimp" was a compliment)
one you should strive for and the other you should strive to stay away from.

people seem to think they are one in the same today. they are willing to be infamous if they can't be famous.

you don't have to be talented, smart or hardworking to be infamous.

you just have to be willing to do something stupid or willing to let someone do something stupid to you.

instant fame and attention from the dozens of news channels and the Internet make people do some crazy things.
something that 30 years ago would have hit the papers, and the 3 or 4 major network news shows is suddenly all over the place. hell, as soon as it happens it pops up on some peoples phones, and on facebook or twitter.

throw in a mentally unstable person and suddenly you end up with a terrible crime that will be known as infamous.

no idea how to fix, no idea how it happened, not even sure if its right, its just my opinion.

take away the guns(tools) and people will still find a way to become infamous.

Merry Christmas and good luck.
 
Regarding the post from the Greecian gentlemen,

I completely agree with psychological screening of gun owners. Maybe we could prevent some tragedies if we made guns a bit more challenging to get a hold of. I don't feel like they should be banned, because guns have hundreds of legitimate uses (including self defense).

On another note,
I still fail to understand why people panic when they see a Manix or a SAK or a small folder. The knives they use every single day in the kitchen are larger can could probably cause more harm than a small folder (assuming they were somewhat sharper than a butter knife)

A entertaining side story. I am a coffee addict. Don't talk to me before i've had my morning cuppa joe. I went to a local coffee shop (yes it was sbux) for a coffee. I don't like the lids on the to-go cups because when you try to drink from them, it makes that annoying sucking noise. The first thing I do is poke a hole in the lid with my pocket knife. I pulled out my small Blind Horse Patch knife and poked a hole in the lid. A lady a few feet away suddenly shrieks "HE'S GOT A KNIFE!!!!". Several people give her a funny look and say "So? Whats your point?" haha. panic fail.
 
erikj3 said:
Gosh and here I thought that was what something called "voting" was for. What are the first three words of the Constitution? We, the PEOPLE. Not, we the government. The fact is, unless you have a couple hundred (or rather, thousand) nukes on hand, you're not gonna be protecting yourself from the tyrannical gubmint with a Bushmaster and a few Glocks. Not that it will come to that, unless you're a lunatic like David Koresh...
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You can how do you think Libyan rebels are defending themselves?

Anyways, government is no longer government when it's people are dead. So it's in the best interest of government to keep us, the people, at least content.
The 2nd amendment was meant to be a IF SHTF, and government becomes tyrannical the people are not defenseless like they were when they claimed independence from Britain.
 
I have a gun on me and a knife in my pocket everytime i leave the house, I also carry a spare knife and gun in the car just in case, and I will continue to do so as long as Big Brother AKA the US government allows me too, granted I've never had to us my weapons as a civilian but have had to pull my glock out one time as a guy with severe road rage was chasing me and my wife and pointed his firearm at us. I called 911 and said i was running from the guy and if he caught up with me and pointed his weapon at me again , That i also had a weapon and it wasn't going to end well, all the 911 dispatcher was focused on was telling me to disarm myself that the police were on their way... Well I wasn't waiting and refused to put my firearm away, finaly after driving over 100mph for about 5 miles the police saw us and intercepted the guy, I stopped of course, then put my firearm away, the cops told me I had done nothing wrong as I was protecting the lives of my wife and I. Had i listened to that stupid dispatcher and that idiot caught me I may not be here right now. Come to find out the guy chasing me was also ex military with PTSD and he was having an episode so he had no charges filed on him, as far as knives, Down here where i live every male nearly carries a knife and it's not that big of a deal to see a guy or gal pull out a 4 inch blade in the middle of walmart or something just to open a package or something...I don't know where peoples false sense of security comes from in America, they walk around with no ways of protecting themselves and just think it won't happen to me , but trust me if you've seen some of the things I've seen and saw what humans are capable of doing, then you would have something on your person at all times to protect yourself, if not a gun or knife at least pepper spray or something....
 
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