Non-vanadium super steels?

[tiguy7]

Depends on how well the carbides are held in place, how sharp the abrasive is, how well the abrasive is held in place, lubrication, how hard the person sharpening is pushing against the stone, etc. Arkansas stones dish out, even if they're just used on 1070 steel (when hardened, 1070 has basically no primary carbides that are harder than the stone).

So you’re saying that a 1070 blade will scratch a Quartz crystal?

 

[me2]

No, I'm saying solid stones, when used to sharpen steels softer than the stone, will still wear.

 

[Yonose]

If he can't tell a difference between garbage Chinese steel and super high end steel, I'd say he is horribly unperceptive. I can tell after a few cuts into virtually any medium the difference between pot metal and premium steel. Multiple tests show junk steel staying sharp for a dozen or two cuts, and premium steels can go well into hundreds. You would have to be the worst tester on the planet to not notice a difference between those.

The statement which he attributed to Cliff is incorrectly paraphrased and taken out of context.

 

[Yonose]

You can get a burr to rise. It just has a tendency to not form burrs easily. And as you say at higher grits it is a very small burr usually.

Some steels seem to form burrs very readily.

Is burr formation necessary or overrated? I never try to get a burr, I just pass both sides an equal number of times. Am I wrong to sharpen this way?

 

[Yonose]

If you are not going to chop with it, then there is no real purpose in owning a large knife. You think large knives should not exist because your grandmother said so. Got it.

One thing I can tell you. Axes (or saws) sure are crap to carry, de-limb or clear trail with. And they also slice extremely poorly. I agree that if you have a fireplace and a reclining chair the axe is indeed far more useful, and I presume you and your grandmother thus speak from experience.

Gaston

You argued the exact opposite in a thread about “one knife for survival,” in which you stated that the longer the edge is, the more “useful cutting edge” a knife will have.

 

[Casinostocks]

Is burr formation necessary or overrated? I never try to get a burr, I just pass both sides an equal number of times. Am I wrong to sharpen this way?

If by sharpening you just mean edge maintenance ala bringing a dull edge to a sharp working edge, then perhaps not necessary. I think that if you're reprofiling the edge, you must raise a burr on one side before you go onto the other. However, I'm not even an expert on these matters

 

[Yonose]

If by sharpening you just mean edge maintenance ala bringing a dull edge to a sharp working edge, then perhaps not necessary. I think that if you're reprofiling the edge, you must raise a burr on one side before you go onto the other. However, I'm not even an expert on these matters

I notice burrs forming when I sharpen my carbon steel knives and tools, but I never set about to forming one when putting the scary back in sharp on my high alloy folders.

 

[Lapedog]

Is burr formation necessary or overrated? I never try to get a burr, I just pass both sides an equal number of times. Am I wrong to sharpen this way?

No it isn’t necessary. Just a good tactile way to tell you’ve reached the apex

 

[DeadboxHero]

Burr? Yes.

I think the source to most sharpening problems people have is not making a burr and or not removing it properly.

Counting? Never. That will lead to frustration with higher end steels

You can try to do "no burr" but everyone either stops short of a true Apex or has a little wire edge (straightened burr) left over since they think they don't need to deburr since they didn't make one.

Trust me,
If I didn't need to make a burr I wouldn't. I'm always looking for shortcuts with the volume I sharpen at. Always saved time just do it.

Why do people avoid burrs?

I find that people have problems with making small burrs they can detect so they make burrs WAY too big and remove more steel then they need and have to fight the burr later on.

Also, burr removal is very important and very misunderstood and some steels are difficult to deburr so people end up crushing and rounding their apexs when deburring too aggressively or leaving behind small areas of burr.

But hey, if whatever works is Sharp enough, then who cares.

For me it's never enough.

 

[tiguy7]

Burr? Yes.

I think the source to most sharpening problems people have is not making a burr and or not removing it properly.

Counting? Never. That will lead to frustration with higher end steels

You can try to do "no burr" but everyone either stops short of a true Apex or has a little wire edge (straightened burr) left over since they think they don't need to deburr since they didn't make one.

Trust me,
If I didn't need to make a burr I wouldn't. I'm always looking for shortcuts with the volume I sharpen at. Always saved time just do it.

Why do people avoid burrs?

I find that people have problems with making small burrs they can detect so they make burrs WAY too big and remove more steel then they need and have to fight the burr later on.

Also, burr removal is very important and very misunderstood and some steels are difficult to deburr so people end up crushing and rounding their apexs when deburring too aggressively or leaving behind small areas of burr.

But hey, if whatever works is Sharp enough, then who cares.

For me it's never enough.

I count strokes to match the totals on both sides of the blade. This keeps the edge centered.

 

[DeadboxHero]

I count strokes to match the totals on both sides of the blade. This keeps the edge centered.

I just remove the burr so there is nothing to center, just a crisp edge underneath that's as even and centered as I created from shoulder to Apex,

Whatever works.

Cheers

 

[samuraistuart]

If I were to try and tackle the OPs actual question, my reply would have to center around, "What do you mean by 'compete with'?" I think the following statement is pretty close to correct, I'm sure someone has another opinion: All else being equal (hardness/geometry/etc), a steel that excels in chopping wood may not be able to slice abrasive media as well as another steel. For example, 5160 works great in chopping work, while S110V probably won't. S110V works great in cutting abrasive media, but probably isn't the best steel to make a competition chopper out of. But for me, the cold work tungsten tool steels that were mentioned earlier in the thread are my go to steels (when I can find them). The F series steels aren't readily available. If they were, F2 would be my pick out of F2, F3, and F8. AFAIK, they simply aren't available because they're no longer made. Achim in Germany does indeed have custom smelts run every now and again, and as such does sell a few cold work tungsten steels. Like 1.2442, which I absolutely love. 1.2519 would be another. 1.2563 another. Aogomi Super would be another, but again, not available (to makers in the USA). Another favorite is Cru Forge V, although it technically does have vanadium, .75%. If we're talking in the kitchen, and protein slicing all day long, then I think an extremely hard, extremely low alloy steel is hard to compete with, like White 1, as it has super high edge stability, can be taken to very very thin geometries, and is super easy to sharpen compared to a "super steel". But that 67hrc White 1 with .005" behind the edge and 10° per side edge angles won't handle a Bladesports competition very well.