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I am sure that is true, but maybe the design could be improved as the OP suggests.
OK it was "overcome".
I can't know for sure, but I have a good feeling that CT will replace it.
Bob
-
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Not a great debut for the new Council Wood-Craft Pack Axe
- Thread starter Twindog
- Start date
I can't know for sure, but I have a good feeling that CT will replace it.
Bob
Square_peg
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Do you know what kinds of wood you were in? On the Olympic Peninsula there is a lot of hemlock. Hemlock can have knots that are glass hard. Any axe made will either chip or roll if it finds one of those knots. Not every hemlock knot is that hard. But you find them.
Square_peg
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The sheath should have a welt or at least rivets in front of the stitching.
The mask does have a welt. There are rivets, too, but they are widely spaced and the bit can slide between them. I'm pretty sure that the bit nestled between the welt and the outer leather. Then, when the box was dropped or mishandled, there was enough force to push it into the threads and slice through them cleanly.
There are hemlock here, but I was mostly hacking through old-growth salmonberry, with some elder berry and devil's club mixed in. The downed branches were mostly alder. The conifers I don't know because they were covered in thick moss and partly decomposed. It's possible that there were intact hemlock knots inside some of the conifer branches. There was solid wood at the core of those branches.
There are hemlock here, but I was mostly hacking through old-growth salmonberry, with some elder berry and devil's club mixed in. The downed branches were mostly alder. The conifers I don't know because they were covered in thick moss and partly decomposed. It's possible that there were intact hemlock knots inside some of the conifer branches. There was solid wood at the core of those branches.
Well, that was fast. I just received -- on a Sunday night -- a very nice and detailed email from a Council vice president. He had seen the photos I submitted. He said that the bit should not have suffered that kind of damage, short of beating it on concrete. His best guess was that there was some human error, probably when the company was switching heat-treating systems. The new heat treating system is apparently foolproof.
From the color of the head and bit in the photos, he said that it appears this head did not get fully heat treated.
The acuteness of the bit is the result of using premium 5160 steel, which he said will not chip or roll. The hardness is very close to 54 Rc on each Wood-Craft Pack Axe. Council has such confidence in its new heat treat system and the steel that it gives its head a lifetime guarantee.
He is sending me a replacement.
It is certainly nice that he's sending a replacement -- and new sheath -- but that he took the time on a Sunday night to give such a polite and detailed reply. Much appreciated. I guess it is a great company.
From the color of the head and bit in the photos, he said that it appears this head did not get fully heat treated.
The acuteness of the bit is the result of using premium 5160 steel, which he said will not chip or roll. The hardness is very close to 54 Rc on each Wood-Craft Pack Axe. Council has such confidence in its new heat treat system and the steel that it gives its head a lifetime guarantee.
He is sending me a replacement.
It is certainly nice that he's sending a replacement -- and new sheath -- but that he took the time on a Sunday night to give such a polite and detailed reply. Much appreciated. I guess it is a great company.
Square_peg
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That's terrific news. Class act by Council.
+ 1 for Council!
Twindog, as I promised...this is Carlos when he was somewhat younger...out of some old school Belgian blood...80 lbs of piss and vinegar (although he does look like a sweet innocent pansy in most pictures, his head was full of outrageous ideas ):
From the beginning, he was a handful. The textbook example of "what-your-first-dog-should-not-be-like".
He was a very stubborn, dominant, high prey (and every other type of) drive you could imagine.
He did not read the "Malamute's user manual", so he didn't know he was supposed to love all people and not be the best bodyguard for my wife. Interestingly, he was very social around eveyone - grown-ups, kids (NEVER hurt anyone), other well-behaved dogs, but God forbid someone lay a finger on her. He'd lauch to grab you from your face if you threatened her; he's never been protection trained, that was all instict. He started behaving like after her father died.
One day, he grabbed a big harmless mosquito from the air (they're like 2 inches long but don't bite) as my wife caught glimpse of it and let a little scream out.
I don't remember ever seeing him afraid of anything...his only encounter with a bear was a real, stuffed one and he was out of control trying to get it. The only dog fights he got in were broken by my 100 pound wife while the other party was helpless (even big men, shudder...) - he wouldn't take kindly to huffing, puffing and posturing from other bug dogs, and he'd do his best to get their neck. You had to be quick.
He didn't like Gypsies. You can safely call my dog a racist. You can imagine the hilarity that ensued when, at a dog show, a judge wore a rather funny-looking hat that, in Carlos' head, was a clear mark of a Gypsy. Then this Gypsy had the audacity to try grab him by the balls, as real judges do
. They were kicked out from the show .
The other thing he was interested in at any dog show was finding the biggest dog, lock eyes with it and try to get it. He was sneaky about it, too. Good thing he was under her total control. (We run a dog daycare so she is handling heavier dogs than her routinely.)
However, this wasn't like that always. Two times he got away in the fields. That was back when you'd be sure that Carlos would always answer and come back. Once my wife walked for an hour looking for him along with a swearing shepherd whose flock he has "herded" away. When they finally found him, all the sheep were unharmed and gathered together. A single one was away from the group, safe and sound. Carlos was laying right between the flock and that one. The poor animal wanted to get back with the group. He'd just lazily stare at her and she'd freeze right on the spot. The second and last time he got away, he herded some pigs. All in all, no victims, but he had to take a good bath afterwards.
Every once in a while you'd get up to screams and cries. You'd know it's a hedgehog screaming murder from his jaws, as he was doing his best to kill it, his blood mixing with that of the prey. But as I said, he was stubborn and would rather bleed to death than let go of that poor thing. I don't know if this was the stupidest and most durable hedgehog the world has seen (really crafty at scaling fences or digging underneath btw), or they had tons of them in the garden, but this would happen like every other week. We've never found a dead one and they all left on their feet.
His favorite pass time was laying by the gate and waiting for unsuspecting people to pass. They could not see him and he had like an inch of visibility under the gate. When they were close by, he'd start barking like a psycho. Our old, beat-up car had quite a few bends on the hood - they were "ass impressions" from scared people jumping on it. His eyes would lit up and he'd be sooo proud of himself.
Poor guy is a former shell of himself, neutered after having testicular cancer, but every once in a while he'll still give me some attitude. He's still Adriana's boy and I'd better remember that there's respect and love between us but he's been there first and he let me in his yard.
I'll rue the day I won't have Carlos "the Jackal" (or "the terrorist", as our vet called him...they had a love-hate relationship...) around. Although it seems he's been holding on to dear life forever, I just wish death would forget about him.
Twindog, as I promised...this is Carlos when he was somewhat younger...out of some old school Belgian blood...80 lbs of piss and vinegar (although he does look like a sweet innocent pansy in most pictures, his head was full of outrageous ideas
):
From the beginning, he was a handful. The textbook example of "what-your-first-dog-should-not-be-like"
. He was a very stubborn, dominant, high prey (and every other type of) drive you could imagine.
He did not read the "Malamute's user manual", so he didn't know he was supposed to love all people and not be the best bodyguard for my wife
. Interestingly, he was very social around eveyone - grown-ups, kids (NEVER hurt anyone), other well-behaved dogs, but God forbid someone lay a finger on her. He'd lauch to grab you from your face if you threatened her; he's never been protection trained, that was all instict. He started behaving like after her father died. One day, he grabbed a big harmless mosquito from the air (they're like 2 inches long but don't bite) as my wife caught glimpse of it and let a little scream out.
I don't remember ever seeing him afraid of anything...his only encounter with a bear was a real, stuffed one and he was out of control trying to get it
. The only dog fights he got in were broken by my 100 pound wife while the other party was helpless (even big men, shudder...) - he wouldn't take kindly to huffing, puffing and posturing from other bug dogs, and he'd do his best to get their neck. You had to be quick. He didn't like Gypsies. You can safely call my dog a racist. You can imagine the hilarity that ensued when, at a dog show, a judge wore a rather funny-looking hat that, in Carlos' head, was a clear mark of a Gypsy. Then this Gypsy had the audacity to try grab him by the balls, as real judges do
. They were kicked out from the show . The other thing he was interested in at any dog show was finding the biggest dog, lock eyes with it and try to get it. He was sneaky about it, too. Good thing he was under her total control. (We run a dog daycare so she is handling heavier dogs than her routinely.)
However, this wasn't like that always. Two times he got away in the fields. That was back when you'd be sure that Carlos would always answer and come back. Once my wife walked for an hour looking for him along with a swearing shepherd whose flock he has "herded" away. When they finally found him, all the sheep were unharmed and gathered together. A single one was away from the group, safe and sound. Carlos was laying right between the flock and that one. The poor animal wanted to get back with the group. He'd just lazily stare at her and she'd freeze right on the spot. The second and last time he got away, he herded some pigs. All in all, no victims, but he had to take a good bath afterwards.
Every once in a while you'd get up to screams and cries. You'd know it's a hedgehog screaming murder from his jaws, as he was doing his best to kill it, his blood mixing with that of the prey. But as I said, he was stubborn and would rather bleed to death than let go of that poor thing. I don't know if this was the stupidest and most durable hedgehog the world has seen (really crafty at scaling fences or digging underneath btw), or they had tons of them in the garden, but this would happen like every other week. We've never found a dead one and they all left on their feet.
His favorite pass time was laying by the gate and waiting for unsuspecting people to pass. They could not see him and he had like an inch of visibility under the gate. When they were close by, he'd start barking like a psycho. Our old, beat-up car had quite a few bends on the hood - they were "ass impressions" from scared people jumping on it. His eyes would lit up and he'd be sooo proud of himself.
Poor guy is a former shell of himself, neutered after having testicular cancer, but every once in a while he'll still give me some attitude
. He's still Adriana's boy and I'd better remember that there's respect and love between us but he's been there first and he let me in his yard.I'll rue the day I won't have Carlos "the Jackal" (or "the terrorist", as our vet called him...they had a love-hate relationship...) around. Although it seems he's been holding on to dear life forever, I just wish death would forget about him.
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They are amazing. I see all the faster crosses they are using today for races in Alaska and everywhere. They are alright, faster with better output even than huskies, as long as you are pampering them in-between races, put clothes on them, have them wear pads etc. etc. and have places to stop with shelter and bags of kibble.
Now if you are interested to see how a dog that could fend for itself and live on a restricted calorie diet that would kill the others looks like, look no further than the dogs that have been refined by the Northerners for a few centuries. It was amazing to see Carlos burying the excess food, and weeks later digging it up, dusting it off
and eat it.I will second that! I don't personally own any Councils (unless I discover that true rafting axes are back on their production line) but I will let it be known amongst my superiors that Navistar/International Corp should have their knuckles rapped for dropping Council hatchets in favour 'hecho en Mexico' versions in all of their school bus emergency kits. Navistar/International produces about 100 buses per day so the loss (or potential gain) isn't chicken feed!
+ 1 for Council!
Twindog, as I promised...this is Carlos when he was somewhat younger...out of some old school Belgian blood...80 lbs of piss and vinegar (although he does look like a sweet innocent pansy in most pictures, his head was full of outrageous ideas
From the beginning, he was a handful. The textbook example of "what-your-first-dog-should-not-be-like"
He was a very stubborn, dominant, high prey (and every other type of) drive you could imagine.
He did not read the "Malamute's user manual", so he didn't know he was supposed to love all people and not be the best bodyguard for my wife
One day, he grabbed a big harmless mosquito from the air (they're like 2 inches long but don't bite) as my wife caught glimpse of it and let a little scream out.
I don't remember ever seeing him afraid of anything...his only encounter with a bear was a real, stuffed one and he was out of control trying to get it
He didn't like Gypsies. You can safely call my dog a racist. You can imagine the hilarity that ensued when, at a dog show, a judge wore a rather funny-looking hat that, in Carlos' head, was a clear mark of a Gypsy. Then this Gypsy had the audacity to try grab him by the balls, as real judges do
The other thing he was interested in at any dog show was finding the biggest dog, lock eyes with it and try to get it. He was sneaky about it, too. Good thing he was under her total control. (We run a dog daycare so she is handling heavier dogs than her routinely.)
However, this wasn't like that always. Two times he got away in the fields. That was back when you'd be sure that Carlos would always answer and come back. Once my wife walked for an hour looking for him along with a swearing shepherd whose flock he has "herded" away. When they finally found him, all the sheep were unharmed and gathered together. A single one was away from the group, safe and sound. Carlos was laying right between the flock and that one. The poor animal wanted to get back with the group. He'd just lazily stare at her and she'd freeze right on the spot. The second and last time he got away, he herded some pigs. All in all, no victims, but he had to take a good bath afterwards.
Every once in a while you'd get up to screams and cries. You'd know it's a hedgehog screaming murder from his jaws, as he was doing his best to kill it, his blood mixing with that of the prey. But as I said, he was stubborn and would rather bleed to death than let go of that poor thing. I don't know if this was the stupidest and most durable hedgehog the world has seen (really crafty at scaling fences or digging underneath btw), or they had tons of them in the garden, but this would happen like every other week. We've never found a dead one and they all left on their feet.
His favorite pass time was laying by the gate and waiting for unsuspecting people to pass. They could not see him and he had like an inch of visibility under the gate. When they were close by, he'd start barking like a psycho. Our old, beat-up car had quite a few bends on the hood - they were "ass impressions" from scared people jumping on it. His eyes would lit up and he'd be sooo proud of himself.
Poor guy is a former shell of himself, neutered after having testicular cancer, but every once in a while he'll still give me some attitude
I'll rue the day I won't have Carlos "the Jackal" (or "the terrorist", as our vet called him...they had a love-hate relationship...) around. Although it seems he's been holding on to dear life forever, I just wish death would forget about him.
Truely touching stories, i can feel the love you feel for that old pouch!
much prop to you and your wife for keeping him around for this long even thru sickness, old age and utter stubornness ;D !It's really good to see that they care about the product that they put out. I've seen Gransfors with similar issues, it happens. It's the way that the company deals with the issue that matters IMO.
I'm curious if the quality can be expected to increase on their standard line up as well. I've been tempted to pick up one of their HBs or their camp axe just to have a Council Tools axe for comparison and to support an American company.
I'm curious if the quality can be expected to increase on their standard line up as well. I've been tempted to pick up one of their HBs or their camp axe just to have a Council Tools axe for comparison and to support an American company.
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Truely touching stories, i can feel the love you feel for that old pouch!
Thanks, Remzy. He'll always have a place here until the day he decides to leave us or until keeping him alive is the inhumane and selfish thing to do on our part.
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I know business is business, but that is really disgusting (writing this while I'm not an American but merely have family in the US). Guess this is one of the reasons I will never get rich, as I hate cutting corners. I'm not "cut" out of the "proper cloth" for that.
Believe it or not, I too miss reading "made in USA" on products. (But then, I miss other similar "stamps" as well.) I will never hesitate paying a premium to import US-made goods intended for heavy duty use, whenever it makes sense, first of all quality-wise. (And again, saying this as a European proud of my heritage.)
I feel exactly the same.
Square_peg
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I'd still rather have a boys axe. Just not a good size for me.
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You're in luck... Council makes Boys Axes also...
Axes for everyone, and Everyone wins!!
Peace, Rooster
I'm glad they made good and in a spectacular fashion. That particular axe is not something that I see myself wanting, but I think it gives them another foot in the door fighting foreign competition, so I wish them luck. I really like their plain Jane regular line, which offers all sorts of traditional axes of more than adequate quality and utility at prices competitive with lower quality imports.
For a woods axe, I am wishing for a boys sized jersey or Kentucky with hardened poll and straight handle...Santa might be listening!
For a woods axe, I am wishing for a boys sized jersey or Kentucky with hardened poll and straight handle...Santa might be listening!
Square_peg
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Santa should talk to LH.