Not a great debut for the new Council Wood-Craft Pack Axe

I'm pretty sure that the colors on the edge he was referring to were actually a rust preventative. Certain kinds can produce a rainbow-like iridescence on the surface of the metal.
 
I think their specified hardness of only 55 RC is too soft.
 
Rockwell is a measure of compressive strength no? Tensile strength is at issue here wouldn't you say.

Well I got an immediate and fulsome offer of a replacement from Council Tools 5 minutes after sending an email.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
I think their specified hardness of only 55 RC is too soft.
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Well no body is going to put their eye out. Most of the used ones I have had were to soft for my taste. But then again many vintage ones are too. GB's are taking their 1055 to 58RC or so.. Which I think is great for a hatchet but they are pushing things with bigger axes I think. A little chippy in the bigger offerings.
 
Ziggy99 said:
Rockwell is a measure of compressive strength no? Tensile strength is at issue here wouldn't you say.

Well I got an immediate and fulsome offer of a replacement from Council Tools 5 minutes after sending an email.
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I am glad they are going to take care of you.
I keep talking myself out of purchasing a new axe from them for various reasons. I think heaping praise on a company that stands behind there product is all good and fine. But it is much like buying a car under warranty. Even though they will fix it its still going to be cussed for breaking down.
 
Probably just too pointy

what's funny is that the GB SFA I bought has the corners rounded off from the factory not sure if it was on purpose or the grinder was in a hurry but I guess it circumvents the issue

 
DbH, I don't think it is an accident at all. The first style of SFA and wildlife hatchets also had more of an up turned toe. We can speculate why it has changed.
 
Ziggy99 said:
Rockwell is a measure of compressive strength no? Tensile strength is at issue here wouldn't you say.

Well I got an immediate and fulsome offer of a replacement from Council Tools 5 minutes after sending an email.
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Hardness correlates linearly with tensile strength. :)
 
I personally don't see the issue. It's an axe, and corners get dings. My GB came from that factory that way. Fresh edges are also known to sometimes be a little soft due to the heat of grinding.

But I'd like to see how your your replacement goes.

Was the board a laminate? Because those are much, much more durable and have hard spots compared to actual tree wood.
 
Ziggy , the Rockwell hardness test was originally developed to approximate tensile strength !

From my industrial experience , the original comments about switching HT procedure was a good warning sign ! It takes a bit of time to perfect the system and train people . Looks like they handled it well .
 
SC T100 said:
I personally don't see the issue. It's an axe, and corners get dings. My GB came from that factory that way. Fresh edges are also known to sometimes be a little soft due to the heat of grinding.

But I'd like to see how your your replacement goes.

Was the board a laminate? Because those are much, much more durable and have hard spots compared to actual tree wood.
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I didn't pay close enough attention to his post, if it is just that corner I don't think he has an issue either. I have seen the initial edge being a little soft as you have stated. My Wildlife hatchet was that way.
Like DBH eluded to that corner should be rounded. Quick fix and the only way it doesn't just happen again.
 
Well, this is where that over-large phantom bevel comes into play. It's the toe and there's not a huge amount of meat up there. I don't want to start my life with this axe by sacrificing some of it.

The factory agrees it's a fault due to a change in heat treatment that for one day they weren't on top of. One second's variation in the heat and quench sequence is apparently enough to leave the steel too hard or too soft.

SC T1000, it was plain Radiata pine. Should be a doddle for 5160.
 
I wonder how a Nepalese kami can properly harden a 5160 kukri with nothing but poured water out of a tea pot, so does pretty much every 3rd world blacksmith, yet it seems the same steel is harder to heat treat in an industrial setting. I always had the impression that 5160 is quite forgiving when it comes to heat treatment. I may be wrong.
 
Let me be cynical. The problem is likely not the steel, the heat treatment, or the hardness, except as incidental factors. It is the ambition of the design, which appears to attempt too much. The thinnish flat grind and sharp corners, etc., make it suitable for finer tasks such as carving, while the phantom bevels and other features appear to tempt use as a general purpose axe. The design probably does nothing that the Hudson bay can't do as well or better, but it looks like it can. If these were selling for $50 or so, I'd say, it is what it is, but it really begs to be held to a higher standard, as do other boutique axes, which often have similar form before function deficiencies.

On the corners, I'd like to point out that the Michigan pattern, along with several other time-tested designs, has rounded corners. That is not for looks.

Just my 2 cents.
 
BG_Farmer said:
Let me be cynical. The problem is likely not the steel, the heat treatment, or the hardness, except as incidental factors. It is the ambition of the design, which appears to attempt too much. The thinnish flat grind and sharp corners, etc., make it suitable for finer tasks such as carving, while the phantom bevels and other features appear to tempt use as a general purpose axe. The design probably does nothing that the Hudson bay can't do as well or better, but it looks like it can. If these were selling for $50 or so, I'd say, it is what it is, but it really begs to be held to a higher standard, as do other boutique axes, which often have similar form before function deficiencies.

On the corners, I'd like to point out that the Michigan pattern, along with several other time-tested designs, has rounded corners. That is not for looks.

Just my 2 cents.
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Absolutely on the Michigan. The corners were removed because large knotted frozen pine is apparently hard on corners. (Not small green pine)IDK about the heat treat issue. I do know that whenever I see or handle a damaged axe it is almost always from abuse. Whenever I see a damaged edge online it is almost always to thin of an edge and almost always blamed on anything but the thin edges.
Thin edges/improper sharpening for the task at hand is to blame 99% of rhe time. I would knock back the corners, and convex the edge a bit. I bet that phantom bevel in conjunction with the faint high centerline give this axe an easy release. I would agree it could be moved back a bit and still be usefull.
 
Here is an example of a working edge I use for frozen oak. The close up was after the work. I cut down the center part way with a chain saw. I allowed this oak to get soaked rain snow and slush. From the top down. From the ground up. And from the sides. Then I waited for it to freeze. You can see the ice in the center. This was a test to test an edge on an unwarmed axe on frozen oak on a below 25° day. It suffered no damage. It also had gone through some abusive splitting. I banged up the handle and drove it into the ice and ground more than once. No damage.
Thin bits are to blame more often than not.

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