Not being able to carry a folder over 3 inches really stinks

As far as I know, the knife relevant municipal codes for San Francisco only prohibit you from carrying a blade >3" if you are loitering (if concealed), fighting or being disorderly (doesn't have to be concealed, possession is enough), or hanging around anyplace where alcohol is served (if concealed). Obviously we're talking about folders in the case of concealment; concealed Fixed blades are prohibited in CA.

(Article 17)
SEC. 1291. - PROHIBITING LOITERING WHILE CARRYING CONCEALED WEAPONS.

(a)
As used in this Section, but in no wise limited thereto, "dangerous or deadly weapon" shall mean: any knife with a blade three inches or more in length; any spring-blade, switch-blade, or snap-blade or other similar type knife; any knife any blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device; any ice pick, or similar sharp, stabbing tool; any straight edge razor or any razor blade fitted to a handle; any cutting, stabbing, bludgeoning weapon or device capable of inflicting grievous bodily harm.
(b)
It shall be unlawful for any person, while carrying concealed upon his person any dangerous or deadly weapon, to loaf or loiter upon any public street, sidewalk, or alley, or to wander about from place to place, with no lawful business thereby to perform, or to hide, lurk, loiter upon or about the premises of another.
(c)
It shall be unlawful for any person who has concealed upon his person or who has in his immediate physical possession any dangerous or deadly weapon to engage in any fight or to participate in any other rough or disorderly conduct upon any public place or way or upon the premises of another.
(d)
It shall be unlawful for any person who has concealed upon his person any dangerous or deadly weapon to loiter about any place where intoxicating liquors are sold or any other place of public resort.
(e)
The foregoing restrictions shall not be deemed to prohibit the carrying of ordinary tools or equipment carried in good faith for uses of honest work, trade or business or for the purpose of legitimate recreation.
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Edited to Add

Also check out:
Article 17, Sec. 1292 (all switchblades illegal in SF)
Article 17, Sec. 1293 (don't give or sell knives to minors)
Article 4, Sec. 4.01 (can't possess any knife designed, made, or adopted for use primarily as a weapon in parks without permission).

http://www.municode.com/Library/clientCodePage.aspx?clientID=4201

Search for "knife" or "knives" in "San Francisco Complete Set of Codes"





Mountain View is similar, but the loitering rule applies to open carry as well, not just concealed (immediated physical possession or control).

SEC. 21.9. - Cutting, stabbing, or bludgeoning weapons—Carrying in public places.

No person who has upon his person or within his immediate physical possession or control, whether the same be visible or concealed, any switch-blade knife, as defined in Sec. 21.36, any knife with a blade three (3) inches or more in length, any ice pick, awl, dirk, dagger, stiletto, or similar sharp stabbing tool, any straight-edged razor, razor blade fitted to a handle, razor with an unguarded blade, or any cutting, stabbing or bludgeoning weapon or device intended to be used as a club or capable of inflicting grievous bodily harm, shall loaf or loiter upon any public street, way, sidewalk, alley, or at any athletic event, dance or other such gathering to which the public, or a number thereof, are admitted, or in or about a public park, beach, other recreational area, school, or any other public building or place, or to wander about from place to place with no lawful business thereby to perform or to hide, lurk, or loiter upon or about the premises of another.

(Ord. No. 175.446, 12/9/57.)
SEC. 21.10. - Same—Same—Engaging in fights, riots. etc.

No person who has upon his person or within his immediate physical possession or control, whether the same be visible or concealed, any switch-blade knife, or dangerous or deadly weapon, as described in Sec. 21.9 shall engage in any fight or to participate in any riot, uprising, or other type of disorderly conduct upon the premises of another or upon any public street, way, sidewalk, alley or in or about a public park, beach, or other recreational area, school, any other public building or place, or at any athletic event, dance, or other such gathering to which the public, or a number thereof, are admitted.

(Ord. No. 175.446, 12/9/57.)
SEC. 21.11. - Same—Same—Loitering about places where alcoholic beverages sold, etc.

It shall be unlawful for anyone who has upon his person or within his immediate physical possession or control any switch-blade knife, or dangerous or deadly weapon, as described in Sec. 21.9 to loiter about any place where alcoholic beverages are sold or any other place of public resort.

(Ord. No. 175.446, 12/9/57.)
SEC. 21.12. - Same—Same—Restrictions not to include possession of ordinary tool, etc.

The restrictions provided in Sec. 21.9 to 21.11 shall not be deemed to prohibit the possession or control of ordinary tools or equipment carried in good faith for the purpose of honest work, trade or business, or for use in a legitimate sport or recreation.
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http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=14140&stateId=5&stateName=California



I EDC a Para2 in addition to my Vic Farmer. I used to volunteer in the ED of a San Francisco hospital. At the time, I carried a Military. One of the Sherriffs on ED duty, upon noticing the pocket clip, told me to unclip it and keep it concealed in my pocket.... only because he didn't want any unstable patients seeing it and possibly getting it off me. That's it.




Don't loiter. Don't get into fights. Don't be stupid.
 
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HikingMano said:
As far as I know, the knife relevant municipal codes for San Francisco only prohibit you from carrying a blade >3" if you are loitering (if concealed), fighting or being disorderly (doesn't have to be concealed, possession is enough), or hanging around anyplace where alcohol is served (if concealed). Obviously we're talking about folders in the case of concealment; concealed Fixed blades are prohibited in CA.

Mountain View is similar, but the loitering rule applies to open carry as well, not just concealed (immediated physical possession or control).


I EDC a Para2 in addition to my Vic Farmer. I used to volunteer in the ER of a San Francisco hospital and at the time EDC'ed an orange Military. One of the regular Sherriffs on duty there once told me to unclip the Military and keep it concealed in my pocket....not because it was illegal in any way, but because he didn't want any unstable patients seeing it and snatching it out of my pocket.


Don't loiter. Don't get into fights. Don't be stupid.
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:thumbup: Good post. I live in the city as well and rotate my EDC between a Military, a 3.5" XM-18 and a 3.75" AD-10.
 
Tostig said:
Is this a San Fran thing ? ( the 3 inch limit ).

I dwell in Fresno , I've carried many folders with over 3 inch blades and never gotten any shiz from the coppers.

Tostig
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yes from what I understand, san fran and most places in CA are 3" limit.

People keep mentioning in this thread that they have never had a problem. But no one ever has a problem, until they have one. Felony for a concealed weapon would not be so great, IMHO.


-Freq
 
glockman99 said:
As long as it's legal to carry an AO folder, a Benchmade Mini-Barrage would be an excellent choice, as it has a blade that's slightly under 3 inches, (but seems alot longer).
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it isnt, any spring assist etc is illegal.

My broader point is, that most of the best folders are just over 3 inches of blade. :/

-Freq
 
HikingMano said:
As far as I know, the knife relevant municipal codes for San Francisco only prohibit you from carrying a blade >3" if you are loitering (if concealed), fighting or being disorderly (doesn't have to be concealed, possession is enough), or hanging around anyplace where alcohol is served (if concealed). Obviously we're talking about folders in the case of concealment; concealed Fixed blades are prohibited in CA.
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Well I'm no lawyer, but as far as I can tell that legalize there states nothing over 3 inches?


I had no idea there were so many other bladeforums people in SF. I figured I was the only liberal on this forum, and by liberal I mean the classic sense of the word: Give me my guns, my rights, and my red meat.

Time for an SF getogether perhaps?


-Freq
 
freq18hz said:
Well I'm no lawyer, but as far as I can tell that legalize there states nothing over 3 inches?
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Nope, it just says nothing over 3" under certain circumstances such as loitering, fighting, etc. For regular EDC, it's perfectly legal so long as the knife doesn't qualify as a "gravity" knife, etc. I'm no lawyer either, but I'm confident in that interpretation of the codes from discussions with other members here such as MORIMOTOM, a CA LEO (from SoCal).

I had no idea there were so many other bladeforums people in SF. I figured I was the only liberal on this forum, and by liberal I mean the classic sense of the word: Give me my guns, my rights, and my red meat.

Time for an SF getogether perhaps?

-Freq
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Fairly large get togethers already happen pretty frequently here in the Bay. It just happens on another knife forum, but anyone's welcome. The next one is scheduled for the 22nd in Hayward. Email me for details:thumbup:.

Here's a picture of just the custom Emersons at that last get together. It wasn't planned and there were a lot more knives that weren't Emersons there (this is pretty typical during the busy get togethers):

SSPX0839.jpg
 
While California state law is generous, I just happen to live in the communist county of LA, which has a 3" reg too, if I recall correctly.
 
Apec said:
While California state law is generous, I just happen to live in the communist county of LA, which has a 3" reg too, if I recall correctly.
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Los Angeles just has the rule of not carrying knives with blades larger than 3" openly. They can be carried concealed for typical EDC stuff. Common restrictions apply (not on college campuses, courts, etc). You'll want to check on your specific city however.
 
Kaizen, do you know if Axis lock knives, or spring assisted knives are considered gravity knives?


-Freq
 
Yeah California sucks with knife laws, well just most of the cities, California as a state has a limit of 4". I live near Huntington Beach and limit is 4" but most cops like to believe that it is 3", i've had a few problems but mostly due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and all of which I was able to talk myself out of, as long as you have a good reason you should be good to go. I'm also a minor so i'm more likely to catch flak from Leo's. As long as you aren't being an idiot you should be fine up to 4".
 
ajbuckelew said:
Yeah California sucks with knife laws, well just most of the cities, California as a state has a limit of 4". I live near Huntington Beach and limit is 4" but most cops like to believe that it is 3", i've had a few problems but mostly due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and all of which I was able to talk myself out of, as long as you have a good reason you should be good to go. I'm also a minor so i'm more likely to catch flak from Leo's. As long as you aren't being an idiot you should be fine up to 4".
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There's no state folder length limit, except on schools and such.
 
I just clarified some information, after another member asked about specific info I based my statement [in bold below] on. (See post #37.) Apparently, California does not have a specific blade length written into any laws, BUT, many law enforcement agencies I've talked to over the years seem to think that state law is 3". Locally, you can carry pretty much what you want (no switchblades, autos, balis) as long as you have a legitimate need, and can explain clearly if asked.

My original text:
California blade length limit is three inches. However, if you have a legitimate reason to carry something longer, then that is allowed in most jurisdictions. You need to know what those limits are, and decide if the risk of carrying something larger is needed, or worth the hassle you might get.

Out here, we get a lot of guys carrying larger knives, even an occasional fixed blade, for landscaping & grounds work. I've seen everything from Moras, SAK's, Buck 110's, kitchen paring knives, larger kitchen knives, name brand and cheap generic imported knives. Clipped and in belt sheaths.

I made it a point to ask a local cop about their concerns about knife carry, and what Concord's policy & laws are. Generally, if you look like a tradesman, or you're working, or otherwise have a reason to have a larger knife on you, they don't care. But if you look like a thug, and you're hangin' on the corner of Monument & Detroit flippin' gang sign, and they see even a small knife clip in your pocket, you'll get lots of attention.

I make it a point to note the day, time, and badge number of the cops I've asked. If an issue ever comes up, I'm confident that I'm covered.

~Chris

ps - Screw it. I'm bored. Tomorrow, I'm gonna put my CS Spartan on a lanyard around my neck and walk by the police station, and cuss at all the cops I see. :D
 
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Apec said:
There's no state folder length limit, except on schools and such.
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Technically there is a state limit regarding what you can carry on any kind of state property, which can include city property depending on circumstance but mostly schools and campuses is where the main concern is.
 
What's with everyone stating limits on CA's knife laws? People need to start providing actual knife codes like HikingMano provided above rather than spreading rumors and speculating. It just confuses others.

RE: Axis locks: Found HERE

653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever...
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The axis lock can be opened fairly easily under normal tension as set by the factory with a flip of the wrist, so I imagine a cop can get you for that. But there's also a detent on the knife so they may not interpret the knife being a "gravity knife" because of that.

AOs aren't gravity knives as they don't fit the description provided above. My understanding is the the AO was specifically designed to get around the wording of a "gravity knife", particularly this part:

"Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.
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AOs require pressure applied to either a flipper, which is a part of a blade, maybe an opening hole (part of the blade) or a thumb stud which is acceptable according to the verbiage above.
 
orca8589 said:
California blade length limit is three inches. However, if you have a legitimate reason to carry something longer, then that is allowed in most jurisdictions. You need to know what those limits are, and decide if the risk of carrying something larger is needed, or worth the hassle ou might get.
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This appears to be completely unfounded. Please provide the knife codes you're using to support this claim.

ajbuckelew said:
Technically there is a state limit regarding what you can carry on any kind of state property, which can include city property depending on circumstance but mostly schools and campuses is where the main concern is.
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^^^This might be right (found HERE):

171b. (a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or
local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the
public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part
1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section
11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the
Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one
year, or in the state prison:
(1) Any firearm.
(2) Any deadly weapon described in Section 653k or 12020.
(3) Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the
blade of which is fixed or is capable of being fixed in an unguarded
position by the use of one or two hands.
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Though I'm not sure what to make of the part in bold. I'm not sure if it's just referring to fixed blades or if it applies to locking folders.
 
You should try living in Australia! Knife laws :thumbdn suck here!!!!:thumbdn:
Cheers Tracula
 
I'm no lawyer either but it is absolutely amazing to me how personal freedoms are being systematically removed. Often we are our own worst enemies in that we really don't know the law. Unfortunately often LEO's don't either. So called "weapons" laws in many cases were put in the books to further penalize those participating in activities that are a threat to others. We hear of a case where someone is penalized for carrying something that can be considered a weapon and think that makes the device illegal when that's not the case. The penalty was for the illegal activity exacerbated by the device that could cause further harm but we transfer the penalty to the device and forget the circumstances.

There was a thread recently where carrying a knife in school was discussed. One poster quoted the law in his state to show knives were illegal on school grounds when the law actually clearly stated what specifically was prohibited on school grounds. The law in that and many other cases is really quite specific and doesn't limit carry of most any normal knife even on school grounds.

It's bad enough that local governments systematically attempt to take away rights guaranteed by the constitution without challenge. Worse is the fact that we assist their efforts by mis interpreting their attempts thus making it less and less a normal thing to posses any tool that could be interpreted as a weapon.

Quote:
171b. (a) Any person who brings or possesses within any state or
local public building or at any meeting required to be open to the
public pursuant to Chapter 9 (commencing with Section 54950) of Part
1 of Division 2 of Title 5 of, or Article 9 (commencing with Section
11120) of Chapter 1 of Part 1 of Division 3 of Title 2 of, the
Government Code, any of the following is guilty of a public offense
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail for not more than one
year, or in the state prison:
(1) Any firearm.
(2) Any deadly weapon described in Section 653k or 12020.
(3) Any knife with a blade length in excess of four inches, the
blade of which is fixed or is capable of being fixed in an unguarded
position by the use of one or two hands.

This quote is a good example. The part about the four inch blade was originally bolded when just as important is the section about the public building or meeting.
 
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