Not being able to carry a folder over 3 inches really stinks

harlycarly said:
How true. We have to make regular trips to Boston for medical stuff and I always have to make sure there is nothing in my car that will get me a year in jail. :jerk it:

I've taken to keeping a simple, basic black Buck 501 in my pocket. 2.75 inch blade but razor sharp. When I am heading into a hospital, I often switch off to an old Spyderco Aviator that I carry as a money clip. Both have locking blades, which may or may not be a no-no. I had a cheap, but sharp older Schrade basic black lockback that was a good travel knife, but actually lost it on a Boston trip. I'd hate to lose the 501, but be heartbroken to lose the Aviator. Size really doesn't seem to matter, but "looks" apparently do.
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I hear ya. Today at the post office (in a town south of Boston), I pulled out my Fallkniven Tre Kronor (2.7 in blade) as I had to open a box which was also wrapped in shipping paper, and I felt like I was pulling out an AK47. It shouldn't be like that.

The law is utterly brutal: MGL 269-10 basically forbids anything with a blade above 1.5 in (+ other limitations...usual stuff, no autos, no double edged blades, etc. etc.).
But then there is a Boston municipal ordnance that states that up to 2.5 in it's ok within the city limits.
Then apparently in some legislation there is mention that "folding pocket knives" and "swiss army knives" are ok as they're not considered weapons. Finally, there are people that swear that more you go out of Boston, more tolerance is applied by LEOs and that out in the boonies you can even have folders with up to 4 in blades as long as that the knife doesn't look too "tactical" (do I want to let a LEO be the decision maker in something that could send me to jail for 2 1/2 years? I don't think so.).

If the decision of where to live would only be based on knives and firearms, Massachusetts would be hell, quite literally.
 
legion681 said:
Come to "friendly" Massachusetts...The state that basically adopted a stance that goes a bit like "if it exists, it's illegal"...

When it comes to knives and firearms, Massachusetts is on par with the Spanish Inquisition...
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How so? There is no blade length limit in the law in Mass. each city may set its own blade length limit as they see fit.

harlycarly said:
How true. We have to make regular trips to Boston for medical stuff and I always have to make sure there is nothing in my car that will get me a year in jail. :jerk it:

I've taken to keeping a simple, basic black Buck 501 in my pocket. 2.75 inch blade but razor sharp. When I am heading into a hospital, I often switch off to an old Spyderco Aviator that I carry as a money clip. Both have locking blades, which may or may not be a no-no. I had a cheap, but sharp older Schrade basic black lockback that was a good travel knife, but actually lost it on a Boston trip. I'd hate to lose the 501, but be heartbroken to lose the Aviator. Size really doesn't seem to matter, but "looks" apparently do.
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legion681 said:
I hear ya. Today at the post office (in a town south of Boston), I pulled out my Fallkniven Tre Kronor (2.7 in blade) as I had to open a box which was also wrapped in shipping paper, and I felt like I was pulling out an AK47. It shouldn't be like that.

The law is utterly brutal: MGL 269-10 basically forbids anything with a blade above 1.5 in (+ other limitations...usual stuff, no autos, no double edged blades, etc. etc.).
But then there is a Boston municipal ordnance that states that up to 2.5 in it's ok within the city limits.
Then apparently in some legislation there is mention that "folding pocket knives" and "swiss army knives" are ok as they're not considered weapons. Finally, there are people that swear that more you go out of Boston, more tolerance is applied by LEOs and that out in the boonies you can even have folders with up to 4 in blades as long as that the knife doesn't look too "tactical" (do I want to let a LEO be the decision maker in something that could send me to jail for 2 1/2 years? I don't think so.).

If the decision of where to live would only be based on knives and firearms, Massachusetts would be hell, quite literally.
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The 1.5 inch blade limit is for automatics. A normal locking folding knife doesn't have a blade length limit that I could find as long as it doesn't meet the criteria of automatic, gravity, ballistic, butterfly or other description prohibited by MGL. The 2.5 inch limit is within the city limits of Boston.


http://knife-expert.com/ma.txt (Bernard Levine's site):

Chapter 269: Section 10. Carrying dangerous weapons...

(b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his
person, or carries on his person or under his control
in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case
which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn
at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife
with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any
mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade,
or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring
release device by which the blade is released from the
handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches
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My father was a police officer for 33 years in a high crime Boston suburb and usually said a folder with a blade of under 4 inches would not be a problem (unless you were a criminal, or it was going to be used as an additional charge during a felony arrest.) He gave me my first spyderco fully serrated endura but mentioned that a police or military was against the law. It will most likely be at the discretion of the officer and if you aren't a criminal chances are you will be fine.

YMMV
 
I moved from Illinois to Kentucky because of gun and knife laws. It's so much better being free.
 
I understand your pain.

Just think of all the rampant crime that would ensue if they allowed residents to carry a larger knife. Chaos I tell you, chaos.
 
Sigguy said:
Just think of all the rampant crime that would ensue if they allowed residents to carry a larger knife. Chaos I tell you, chaos.
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LOL, that conjures up a picture like in a cheap Zombie movie of legions of citizens roaming the streets brandishing large Sebenzas.....
 
Pete1977:

Thanks for posting your info, I appreciate it. So now I'm realizing that my 2.75 inch penknife is technically not legal in Boston, by 1/4 inch.

I agree that common sense should prevail, and in my work life have known many sensible guys like your Dad. The problem is, there is a lot of conflicting info and I like to be clear about such things. Not easy. Even your last words read "chances are". Me... I don't like to leave things to chance.

In truth, Boston doesn't seem like a particularly dangerous place to me, compared to other places I've been. I just like to know what I'm dealing with when I leave home, is all.

Thanks again.
 
Tsujigiri said:
Yep, even more annoying at Universities. The limit is 2.5 inches and the knife can't lock.

Which is why I ignore the knife laws altogether...
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at my University the rule is "any ordinary folding knife with a blade less than 4 inches long" Based on what people around campus carry, a one handed locking blade is considered an ordinary pocket knife.
 
Boy,...reading over these post makes me sick in my stomach. Isnt it sad that in America you cant carry the pocket knife of your choice. I live in PA. and carry a 10mm Glock and Strider/Emerson.:thumbup: At what point did these states and the cities in them decide to take away constitutional rights?? Why do citizens in these states put up with it?? I am not ranting but want to know at what point did these states become afraid of their citizens enough to out law a basic right to protect oneself?
 
Regarding my comment about the CA 3" blade limit:

Kaizen1 said:
This appears to be completely unfounded. Please provide the knife codes you're using to support this claim.
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You're right - as far as I know there isn't anything specifically written in sate law that gives a blade length limit. Even says it here, for what it's worth:

http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html
"There's no length limit. Seriously :)."

However, every law enforcement agency I've talked to over the years (SFPD, Concord PD, CA Highway Patrol, etc.) have all said that the state limit is a 3" blade length. :confused: I've never asked them for a specific reference to the state law that says that, but that seems to be the info what they work from. Oh well.

I'll re-word my post to clarify.

~Chris
 
orca8589 said:
Regarding my comment about the CA 3" blade limit:



You're right - as far as I know there isn't anything specifically written in sate law that gives a blade length limit. Even says it here, for what it's worth:

http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html
"There's no length limit. Seriously :)."

However, every law enforcement agency I've talked to over the years (SFPD, Concord PD, CA Highway Patrol, etc.) have all said that the state limit is a 3" blade length. :confused: I've never asked them for a specific reference to the state law that says that, but that seems to be the info what they work from. Oh well.

I'll re-word my post to clarify.

~Chris
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It's always good not to be an ass to LEOs, but if you find yourself in a discussion with one, just say something to the effect of 'Really? I have attorney friend and other cop friends who told me that there isn't such a state limit. They told me to ask what code you're referring to.' I believe another member carries a copy of the relevant state laws in his wallet. Might be a good idea for those who run into your situations often.
 
orca8589 said:
Regarding my comment about the CA 3" blade limit:



You're right - as far as I know there isn't anything specifically written in sate law that gives a blade length limit. Even says it here, for what it's worth:

http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/knifelaw.html
"There's no length limit. Seriously :)."

However, every law enforcement agency I've talked to over the years (SFPD, Concord PD, CA Highway Patrol, etc.) have all said that the state limit is a 3" blade length. :confused: I've never asked them for a specific reference to the state law that says that, but that seems to be the info what they work from. Oh well.

I'll re-word my post to clarify.

~Chris
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It was my understanding that, while there is no state length limit, local city laws may vary. I believe a bunch of them in the Bay Area have a less than 3 inch limit.

Though, please correct me if i'm wrong. I'd love to carry a Spyderco Paramilitary2.
 
Tostig said:
Is this a San Fran thing ? ( the 3 inch limit ).

I dwell in Fresno , I've carried many folders with over 3 inch blades and never gotten any shiz from the coppers.

Tostig
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Same here. Only problems I've had was with balisongs and autos.
 
freq18hz said:
...Felony for a concealed weapon would not be so great, IMHO. ...
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If your Muni/Local Codes differ from State, and if you get popped for a knife that's not legal in your City/County, but is legal in State, it would only be a misdemeanor (at the most), I believe.

City/County cannot push a felony for a State-Legal knife, in my non-lawyer opinion.

Btw, I'm referring to simple possession, only. If there are other "issues", that's a whole different deal, I believe.
 
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freq18hz said:
I'm sitting here debating on my favorite knives and you know what?

Not being able to carry a folder over 3 inches really really sucks.

There are so many knives I would love to EDC every day, like the Umnumzaan, etc.

Unfortunately, since 3 inches is the limit here, I am reduced to smaller, more petite knives. This really is unfortunate, as I think the sweet spot for awesome folders is around 3.5 inches in blade length.

Anyone else feel similarly?

-Freq
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I feel the same way as you. I just got a Buck Vantage with Bos heat-treated S30V steel..... and I truly love it!!!!!! It's smooth, so doesn't tear up the pocket. It has a thick spine, but narrow cutting edge. It has the best clip design I have ever seen.... ever. I love the knife. There's two versions... one smaller than the other, and you can get either for less than $80 new... from google.com I would upload pics, but I don't have time. :)
 
EDC.jpg

Here's the Buck Vantage S30V
 
It's weird how frequently these posts come up and the same discussions are repeated over and over... anyway, sometimes it's better to look up the relevant statutes in the actual code than to try and google the simple answer (because the law is rarely simple). It's been a while since I've done any legal research, but here's a general breakdown starting at the state level. Usually, you can access the state code through the state government website. That's where you'll first look for laws that apply at the state level. Generally, the laws are going to be organized in some manner, usually by topic, moving from general to the more specific. Often times, you'll be able to view it like the table of contents of a book, with Chapters, titles, etc. Finally, there will often be some sort of alpha/numeric system for organization. For example, related statutes in a specific section might be grouped together in the same range of numbers. Often the order of interpretation loosely follows the numerical order; later laws modify prior laws. In California, you're looking for the California Code which is linked to from the CA gov't webpage. There's a table of contents that lets you narrow it to specific sections of the code. There's a box to search by keyword. Generally, you want to look up "knife" but also some other relevant words that might be in the section that you're looking for, but hopefully not in too many other sections. I would also search for "blade" "dirk" and "dagger" to see what comes up. After you find all those sections, you need to look over them to find your answers. Basically, your search will pull up the relevant law as well as a bunch of stuff you won't be interested in. You'll need to skim each statute to see if it pertains to what you're interested in. For example, if you're interested in the criminal code, you might not care about laws pertaining to commerce. Some might be interested in what's legal on a university or campus, others might not care. However, sometimes it's helpful to look over all of it to make sure you don't miss anything that you might not have thought of. When reading a statute, you might want to check what section (ie. Chapter, Title) it's in to make sure it's on point. You need to remember to check the section (usually before) pertaining to definitions for that specific part of the statute. Definitions are often as important as the law, and frequently how something is defined determines whether or not a law applies. Also definitions can be very different in terms of the law versus what something means to the average person (ex. California has a specific definition of what constitutes a dirk or dagger, and it doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it's sharp on both sides, whereas other states it might). After reading the statute, next see what the exceptions are. This is also important as sometimes, the laws are sometimes written very broadly, but then numerous exceptions are applied afterward effectively making the law very narrow. Usually, these immediately follow the actual statute. Next, check subsequent laws to see if any clarify, amend/modify or repeal the statute you were looking at. Sometimes a law is enacted and then later repealed. Or the repeal repealed. Also, sometimes there are little notes that are written or examples clarifying the legislative intent of the law. These are generally not written as part of the actual law, and so do not carry any legal weight, but are usually considered in the judge's analysis of how to apply the law. Finally, check to see if the law is current. Sometimes they are written with limits. Sometimes there is an amended version. Sometimes there is proposed amendment that will soon become law, or is still in the discussion phase. This part can be tricky if there is no web link, but sometimes you can figure out whether the law is current by looking at the dates.
After you do this research at the state level, you now need to do it at the county/city/town levels as there may be more local laws that apply. So check your county web pages and well as city/town web pages to find local municipal laws. Usually, the organization and layout is similar to the laws at the state level. Sometimes the local government websites are more confusing to navigate, or seem very sparse in comparison to the state site. Hopefully, there will be a similar method to search for keywords online. There may or may not be local laws that apply to your question. However, if there are, then the same method of analysis applies. Be sure to make sure that the laws are current as some sites are updated less than others. Good luck!

Whew!!! That was way more than I meant to write.... That was a VERY brief overview of how to look up the law. There a bit more to it, but I think for most people just trying to find out what their local carry laws are, it's probably covers the gist of it. Hopefully, it'll help those trying to muddle through the mess themselves.
 
This thread has gone off topic. I am familiar with
my local laws.

My point was to discuss how it sucks that most of the best folders, are over 3 inches in length.


But while we are at it: This whole situation totally sucks. Basically, I have no official source to get a comprehensive law from. Instead, I have to interpret it myself, and rely on forums and shop owners to tell me what is/isn't legal?

Concealed weapons charge ain't no joke, especially if you don't have a sparkling clean record. I find this incredibly frustrating. FYI our gov't sucks ass.

-Freq
 
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