Not pleased with Emerson

I have to wonder what sort of chips were in the edge ? Were they really so bad that you thought they may not sharpen out ?

I got a healthy chip in my 12 from cuting strips of tred from a truck tire. There must have been some rocks or what ever in the rubber. That looked pretty nasty but it was fully sharpened out after a couple of goes. (I could have just sharpened it out the first time but I'm lazy).
 
I dropped my super comm on the garage floor during a drill once and chipped the blade in a number of places, but they rubbed out in no time with the sharpmaker. My pivot screw comes loose quite often as well, I haven't tefloned it or used loc-tite on it. I just look at it as a chance to play with my super comm some more, I like maintaining it, kinda like maintaining a machine.
 
Having not had a good folder in recent years, I've recently gone kinda overboard and bought a number of decent-quality folders, all of which I've heard good things about on this forum and elsewhere.

Today I received my first Emerson, a Mini Commander. I was VERY anxious to compare it with my other recently-acquired folding knives, including a Benchmade Griptilian, a Zero Tolerance 350, a Kershaw Junkyard Dog II, a Kershaw Spec Bump, and two Ontario Rat Model Ones(I got a twofer on those).

I expected the Emerson's fit, finish and action to be at least as good, and hopefully better than all these other less-expensive knives.

Unfortunately not.

The fit and finish are rough and the action of the knife was STIFF and felt as if there was sand in the pivot point.
The lock doesn't lock up very much- it's solid but you can clearly see that the butt end of the blade needs some metal taken off so the liner can engage more fully.
I've lubed it and loosened up the pivot screw as far as I can without getting any wobbling- and it still doesn't open anywhere near as smoothly as even the Taiwan-made cheapo Ontario Rat.

So I consulted this forum to see if there have been others who have experienced such issues. Quite a number, as it turns out!

No, I haven't yet contacted Emerson's Customer Service.
Why should I have to? Do they not check these things out before the knives leave the factory. It's difficult to believe that they don't . So why does my Mini Commander, brand new, right out of the box, not open and close as smoothly as a $60.00 Kershaw or even a $25.00 Ontario?

Why all this talk about a break-in period, or sanding washers, or Teflon lube, etc. etc?

Why can't this expensive, raved about knife perform, look and feel as well as I expect it to- I'm easily pleased! I'm looking for reasons to like this knife, but except for the blade being insanely sharp, there aren't any.

It seems to me as if there are a lot of folks who have been taken in by the Emerson myth- there sure are a lot of excuses why these knives aren't up to par. The one I like best was the person who basically said that real Emerson aficionados don't really care about silly little things like quality control and performance- it's all about the design, dontcha know.

I don't know about all that. All I know is that I work hard- I earn my living literally by the sweat of my brow- and I don't apologise for wanting some quality for my money.

So if I contact Emerson, what are they going to do for me? Probably the best thing they could do is send me another Kershaw- now THOSE are some slick knives.

I mean, I have no doubt this Mini Commander is tough as nails. I'm quite sure it could be driven through the hood of a car or whatever it is they advertise. But come on- does toughness have to mean hard-to-open, hard to close, gritty and less than beautifully finished? It shouldn't.
 
daoud said:
I've lubed it and loosened up the pivot screw as far as I can without getting any wobbling- and it still doesn't open anywhere near as smoothly as even the Taiwan-made cheapo Ontario Rat.
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- What did you use for lubrication? It may take a few dozen openings/closings to get the Emerson to be as smooth as you would like. Also try adjusting the pivot screw so that it is tight enough where there is no blade play, but loose enough to open easily.

I'm also a new Emerson owner (CQC-10 and Combat Karambit). I own Benchmades and Spydercos, but once I broke the Emersons in, they've become my EDC. I took both of them apart and cleaned them thoroughly with Gunzilla. Then I used Miltec-1 grease on the washers and pivot. They both open very smoothly either by flicking or wave.
 
Well, see, that's what I'm talking about. Exactly. They're great knives if you do this or this and lube them with this etc. etc. -yadda, yadda. What I'm saying is that I fail to understand why they aren't 100% good to go RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. My Kershaws and my ZT have been great from the first opening. I mean flawless. And they cost 50% LESS than my Emerson "it'll work real slick one of these days" shank. I just don't get it. Nobody would buy a new car, for instance, if people said, "yeah, it kinda sucks now but it's gonna be great after you take it apart and give it a lube job and drive it for 5,000 miles " - now would they? Well, I gotta get to bed. Adios.
 
daoud said:
Well, see, that's what I'm talking about. Exactly. They're great knives if you do this or this and lube them with this etc. etc. -yadda, yadda. What I'm saying is that I fail to understand why they aren't 100% good to go RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. My Kershaws and my ZT have been great from the first opening. I mean flawless.
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- I compare it to firearms. There are a lot of firearms that you can shoot right out of the box with 100% reliability (Glock). There are also a lot that you will need to go through a break-in period for before being considered reliable (Kimber, Kahr, etc.). The Glock is much cheaper than the other brands and are usually flawless. But once you pass the break in period, the other guns will usually perform to their potential.

I guess I'm a little more forgiving of the Emerson for this reason. I know that all of the new guns I have ever bought were never cleaned well at the factory. The main reason is that the manufacturers lube them for long term storage and not necessarily to be fired immediately.
 
richstag said:
This is worth another look.
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Indeed. It's a shame, though.....I sure WANTED to like this Emerson. Oh, well. Too soon old, too late smart as they say. I DO think it's telling that through this 5-page thread nobody affiliated with Emerson has posted to deny that any of their products are less than stellar.....I guess as long as a significant number of folks have drunk their Kool-Aid the rest of us can go jump in a lake.

On the plus side, it doesn't seem as if I'll have a hard time selling the knife if I want to. Maybe I'll offer to throw in a few screwdrivers, a can of Krud-Kutter, a can of Three-In-One Oil, a floor jack.....whatever it takes to keep one of these things running as well as a regular knife.
 
I had a CQC-14. I loved it. The liner lock quickly developed play. There was no abuse. I had to pay shipping both ways for a defective product.

"Just send it in they will take care of it" is a poor attitude. If I would have known it would cost that much (price of knife, plus shipping to have it made right) I would not have purchased it. I say "Just make it right the first time, so I don't have to spend more money on it, and my time shipping and waiting for my knife to come back"

I just bought a used kerambit with the same issue, and sent it back to the owner. Lost more money on shipping.

It's too bad, I do like their designs.
 
daoud said:
Indeed. It's a shame, though.....I sure WANTED to like this Emerson. Oh, well. Too soon old, too late smart as they say. I DO think it's telling that through this 5-page thread nobody affiliated with Emerson has posted to deny that any of their products are less than stellar.....I guess as long as a significant number of folks have drunk their Kool-Aid the rest of us can go jump in a lake.

On the plus side, it doesn't seem as if I'll have a hard time selling the knife if I want to. Maybe I'll offer to throw in a few screwdrivers, a can of Krud-Kutter, a can of Three-In-One Oil, a floor jack.....whatever it takes to keep one of these things running as well as a regular knife.
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As to your first point, if you were a regular here you would know that EKI don't "man" this forum and very rarely if ever respond to threads of any kind so it's far from telling. It's just the way this sub forum goes.

Your second point, while clearly some what sarcastic is off base also. I find it telling that so many people can use and enjoy Emerson knives with out problems, while a select few seem to be rather more uptight about things.

I'm far from a "Kool aid drinker" and I have one or two gripes of my own about EKI but they are perfectly functional knives and have served me, as well as many other people very well. They are a manufactured item so there will always be discrpancies in quality. The only thing EKI can do about that, or to please someone who is just not happy with an item, is have you send it back to be fixed or replaced. That is totally fair play IMO and I don't know what else they can do TBH.

Edit:

I also have a thing for nice watches and have had to have a TAG Heuer and a Breitling sent back to be tuned up and fixed. Both those watches are thought of as high end. They can only offer to fix any problems that were missed or appear, again there is really nothing else they can do.
 
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Having never had an Emerson knife before, I am not a regular on this Emerson knives sub-forum, that's true enough. I don't reckon I WILL be a regular, either.

I DO know of other knife manufacturers- Mike Stewart of Bark River Knife & Tool immediately comes to mind- who believe in their products 1000% and can and do defend them if anyone ever has anything critical to say about them.

That's one of the main reasons I have two BRKT knives and hope to eventually have many more. Beautiful, perfectly made knives right out of the box. A mere $12.00 for their restorative "spa" treatment- vs. Emerson's $19.00 charge just to sharpen one of their knives. And, if I do decide I want to return my Emerson I pay postage PLUS 20 bucks for a "restocking" fee.

So, all of you Emersonians or Emersonites, whether you've drunk the Kool-Aid or not- be assured I have no wish to join your brotherhood.....I'll be happily enjoying various other knives which perform flawlessly right out of the box. And paying substantially less for them as well.
 
Fanboy tendencies are very simple at their core.

People defend the financial decisions that they make not out of some sense of loyalty to a particular brand, but in defense of their own egos. We rationalize our past choices in order to protect our sense of self. If we purchase something, and a person comes a long and criticizes it, we tend to interpret that as a personal insult: "if there's something wrong with what I buy, then maybe there's something wrong with me".

This is why people have emotional upheavals about products. This is why people band together, seeking mutual comfort and reassurance in the things that they buy (an insult is less likely to hurt if it is directed at a whole group of people, because we have the argumentum ad populum fallacy to shield our pride - comfort in numbers). And this is why all companies, no matter what they are selling, try to establish brand identities that people can rally behind - to give people a flag to identify with, and a war cry to chant ("Make it cool, make it solid, make it happen and definitely make it Benchmade" - "#1 Hard Use Knives in the World", etc).

That being said, I've had my own share of issues with Emerson knives - issues which I have come to terms with - and I think that this thread has provided a good opportunity to bring some of these issues to bear.

Emerson users aren't more or less prone to fanboyism than anyone else. Instead, they have a very specific mind for what it is they are purchasing. EKI has a reputation for producing knives at a consistent level of quality, so repeat customers usually have a good idea what they're going to be getting. The fact that post-production modifications and optimizations are commonly desirable is something we accept when we buy an Emerson knife.

If making modifications to your knife isn't something you want to deal with, then you should move on to a different manufacturer. But don't believe their branding anymore than you believe Emerson's, because they're doing it for the same reason. Take some time to research and find something that suits you.
 
I think that generally speaking people do tend to be forgiving in some areas with EKI products. Particularly I'm speaking of finish here. Or rather lack of finish I should say. People overlook things for Ernie that I've seen other companies reemed about on their forums and its a bit of a puzzle at times. Most of the time the fans could not tell you why they like a knife better or what makes it better when they say its the best or even the details of how it is built to know why its better. They just repeat what they read on a forum, or on the web site or were told by the maker at a show. Other times what it really boils down to is that they were at a show, they met and shook hands with the maker who had an aire of being special around them almost like a Hollywood star or rock star or something and he made them feel special and they became enamored with that and liked the guy so they now support him due to this and as a result of liking him so much they overlook any short fallings that may show up on some of the products. That is fine. It really is but they never say that you see. Instead they promote the hype line from the add or show information and the confusion is when someone not so enamored or caught up by the name doesn't have a clue about any of that and is looking at the knife and only the knife wondering what gives?

Also, generally speaking I think if fan boys and regular good ole boy end line users that don't frequent forums alike both focused in an unbiased way to look at what they own they'd see without blinders. In other words if you are one of those that loves to hate Cold Steel and you can easily be critical of that Cold Steel knife and pick it apart piece by piece finding every flaw then you should make an effort to try to be just as critical and look at the brands you like with that same fervor and that same eye for detail. Unfortunately thats like telling someone of one faith who can find flaws in every opposing one to then look at his own faith the same way as he was the one he picked apart and often times its just not happening. :D

STR
 
I'd like to see Emerson offer a "duty" finish. Hartsfield had the right idea. ;)
 
Well, a lot of good stuff has been said in those last couple of posts. Good things to reflect on. I've been doing that while playing with my Mini Commander and I'm beginning to look at in in perhaps a different light. Maybe I'm even starting to like it just a little. Maybe- I hope- this is just my first case of initial dislike changing to a grudging respect.....perhaps it will lead to a Long Term Relationship. I don't enjoy disliking people, and I don't want to dislike any of my knives either. We'll see.
 
XSanguin8 said:
You should have had them replace the blade. I contacted Emerson a few months ago regarding some servicing on some of my knives, and the blade replacement fee was $90. You could have had a new blade for an extra $10 instead of taking an $80 loss.
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I dont think most people would want to give more money to a company that they felt screwed them over.
 
I have bought a number of Emerson Knives over the years and have mixed feelings about them. Interesting and innovative blade styles and usually excellent handle ergonomics are in their favor. Marginal QC for the price, blade play, and liner locks which are all over the place are the drawbacks. Peculiarities of the chisel grind can be either a negative or positive depending on the individual knives intended use. I Definitely won't buy anymore, though I'll probably keep the ones I have.

EE's silly, over-the-top copy writing aside, (though they're not bad knives) I think there are better values to be had on today's market for what most people will end up using the knives for.
 
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I will be star-struck with Emerson after Saturday when I sit in on the Emerson custom knife lottery at BLADE!!!!
 
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