Not sharpening a new and VERY Queen #9 Stockman

I never really mind putting my own edge on a knife.
(Even high end customs end up on the stones if I'm not satisfied with the edge delivered.)

I do mind having to reprofile a knife so that it resembles a cutting instrument.

Maybe the new mantra to custom and production makers alike should be: Mind the bevels!
 
DennisStrickland said:
neeman is right on , even the best factory knives need work. the only exception i've found is the ffg enduras. dennis
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This is ironic for me. The ONE Spyderco on which I found the edge to be unacceptable was an FFG Endura. Very obtuse bevel on it. It's the only Spyderco I've bought that wasn't shaving sharp (at all) out of the box. I assumed, at the time, it was a fluke. Since then, I've seen a few reports from others along the same line. I'm still not sure how prevalent it was. So, my first reaction in reading your post was, 'looks like you got lucky on that one.'
 
Let's try to bring this discussion back around to Traditional Knives...(we can discuss the Spydies and such in General or their own individual sub-forums).
 
Didn't mean to hijack the discussion there. Sorry for the interruption. I think, however, it does illustrate the 'hit or miss' nature of getting consistent edge bevels from even the best of manufacturers (whomever they may be).

Dave
 
Blues said:
I never really mind putting my own edge on a knife.
(Even high end customs end up on the stones if I'm not satisfied with the edge delivered.)

I do mind having to reprofile a knife so that it resembles a cutting instrument.

Maybe the new mantra to custom and production makers alike should be: Mind the bevels!
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I don't mind sharpening a knife I am going to carry every day. What I do mind is while sharpening finding that the edge is wavy, recurved or bent. I have found this happens occasionally with all slipjoint manufacturers.
 
I will have to agree with those that say an obtuse edge is 'ok' (but not ideal), but a primary grind that is too thick behind the edge is 'unacceptable'. There is a difference between having to reprofile the cutting edge and having to grind a blade thinner.

BTW, I too am a manufacturing engineer, and I will say that a blade that is not properly ground from the factory is a sign of poor training, equipment, and/or quality control. I have dialed in lines for manufacturing medical devices that started at 75% thru put, and were higher than 99% thru-put when I was done. Other than some fixturing and additional training there were no excessive recurrent costs ~ as a matter of fact manufacturing time per piece dropped by 25%.
 
There is no way that it takes 10 minutes per blade to sharpen a dull Queen, even with diamond stones. I have several Queens and every single one came not only very dull, but withe obtuse, thick edge bevels that were grossly uneven. I am talking about 60 degrees on one side and maybe 30 degrees on the other. With a Lansky set up and coarse diamond stones it takes several hours to change each side of the blade to 20 degrees. That being said, I still buy Queens because they are quality knives. They are well worth the time invested in sharpening them.
 
rramjet said:
There is no way that it takes 10 minutes per blade to sharpen a dull Queen, even with diamond stones. I have several Queens and every single one came not only very dull, but withe obtuse, thick edge bevels that were grossly uneven. I am talking about 60 degrees on one side and maybe 30 degrees on the other. With a Lansky set up and coarse diamond stones it takes several hours to change each side of the blade to 20 degrees. That being said, I still buy Queens because they are quality knives. They are well worth the time invested in sharpening them.
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10 minutes per blade may be what it would take if I use my belt grinder, but diamond and SiC stones? Hour-plus. I have a Razor Trapper from Queen that I've never actually gotten right, thanks to the bevel angles.
 
rramjet said:
There is no way that it takes 10 minutes per blade to sharpen a dull Queen, even with diamond stones. I have several Queens and every single one came not only very dull, but withe obtuse, thick edge bevels that were grossly uneven. I am talking about 60 degrees on one side and maybe 30 degrees on the other. With a Lansky set up and coarse diamond stones it takes several hours to change each side of the blade to 20 degrees. That being said, I still buy Queens because they are quality knives. They are well worth the time invested in sharpening them.
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I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you need more practice. ;) I can cut new edge bevels on an S90V blade in half an hour with a DMT Extra Coarse Diafold, and that stuff makes D2 look like 1095. My MMIX Forum Barlow looked like it was sharpened by the new apprentice in the tool cage that's learning to sharpen on the cold chisels, and it took less than an hour to get both blades shaving. They're still 0.030" behind the bevel, which is two or three times as thick as I prefer, but it at least resembles a knife now.
 
GregFL said:
I'm probably the odd man out here, but getting a new knife that is not sharp is no big deal to me because:

1) I like to sharpen knives - I find it therapeutic. In today's fast pace society it's good to relax, sit back and sharpen knives.
2) As I posted earlier, I use diamond stones, so to re-profile and sharpen a full size Queen Trapper takes about 30-45 minutes.
3) I tend to use different bevels on blades depending on their intended use. In the example of the Trapper, I have a more acute bevel on the spey than I do the clip.

The only thing that bothers me about a new knife are when there are fit and finish issues. I can sharpen blades, but it's hard to fix gaps in backsprings, blade play, non-centered blades, etc. That's the kind of thing that irritates me.
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My sentiments exactly. I have a DMT coarse that will cut through D2 just fine. I do not like gadgetry for sharpening, but use a wedge and hold my blade flat horizontal and can keep a good looking bevel this way. I work down from DMT coarse to Spyderco med and fine, then Spyderco ultra fine, and then strop with diamond paste. I can clear hair off my arm in swaths, and usually end up with some razor rash as well. My wife looks at me with a :rolleyes: usually aftwards.:D
 
rramjet said:
There is no way that it takes 10 minutes per blade to sharpen a dull Queen, even with diamond stones. I have several Queens and every single one came not only very dull, but withe obtuse, thick edge bevels that were grossly uneven. I am talking about 60 degrees on one side and maybe 30 degrees on the other. With a Lansky set up and coarse diamond stones it takes several hours to change each side of the blade to 20 degrees. That being said, I still buy Queens because they are quality knives. They are well worth the time invested in sharpening them.
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If you get a coarse DMT slab you can raise a burr in about 10 min. Then quickly move through the rest of the stones. I used to go really acute with almost 10 degree for a 20 inclusive, but found 15 and even higher still make a very sharp and usable blade.

If I was to try to re bevel at 10 degrees per side, then it would probably take 15 to 20 min per side with DMT coarse. Cleaning the stone in between with soap and water to keep the build up down.
 
Of all my Queen's, the absolute worst edge was on the Country Cousin. When it arrived, it looked like whoever used the grinder to sharpen took the last pass perpendicular to the edge. A rough, butter knife dull edge. Actually, looked more like the back of the butter knife. Took a couple of hours on some sandpaper and a strop before it was razor sharp. No problem holding the edge and from that point forward, all it needed was a wipe on a loaded strop. The problem that came up over time, was that in 4 years, the point was then exposed when closed. I ground down the kick slightly, then the edge made contact with the backspring. It was too bad too, I carried it for work every day. I replaced it with a Case slimline trapper. Second worst one was the spey blade on the Queen trapper. Looked to be the same guy sharpenned it, but only 2/3 of the blade edge was flat. Got that one corrected in about 1.5 hours. The clip point on both large stockmen were very dull too. My Moutain Man was reasonably sharp out of the box.


Fred
 
Since this is a forum for knife lovers, it's not surprising that many here enjoy working on blades, even if it involves significant re-profiling; and some are quite skilled at this and can make short work of it.
But what about "everybody else" ? Only a very small percentage of non knife knuts know how to sharpen. To them, a knife with thick dull blades is simply seen as a waste of their money.
Having paid 5-10x the price of a sharp Chinese knife because they understand the importance of supporting American businesses will result in bitter disappointment if the knife they choose is a Queen. Certainly they will never buy another and likely share their disappointment with friends.
Queen cannot afford to loose this segment of the knife market.
stevomiller above says "I too am a manufacturing engineer, and I will say that a blade that is not properly ground from the factory is a sign of poor training, equipment, and/or quality control."
I believe this is 100% correct.
Queen urgently needs to invest some money to correct these aspects of their knife making procedures.
Failure to do so will almost certainly result in the loss of another U.S.A. knife manufacturer within a few years.
Don't blame the Chinese.
roland
 
I have 4 Queen of D2, and I cannot complain about any of the 4. I bought mine through Knife Swapper (forum member) Mike Latham. If I felt the edge was horrible, then I would have talked to him about returning it. My mountain man is more than acceptable, in fact, it shaved arm hairs at arrival.

It would be nice to hear from Queen's QC, but if not, I really think all knife owners either need to learn how to sharpen, or send it to someone who can. They can buy an Al Mar with softer steel, and surgically sharp blades from the factory for 2x the price, but if they use the knife, they will still need to sharpen it sooner or later.
 
Try this when sharpening D2 on a stone regardless of the type of stone -- diamond, ceramic, etc..

Instead of pushing the knife edge-first as if trying to slice a sliver of material off the stone and then drawing the knife to you edge-first again as if trying to slice a sliver of material off the stone, use a stropping stroke and pull the blade edge away from you and toward you with alternating strokes. This doesn't allow a wire edge to form but rather pulls the wire away from the edge with each stroke.

Maybe it's just me (very good chance) but I've found that with D2, a wire edge forms quicker on a blade edge than other steels and that that wire edge is more likely to fold over thereby changing the angle very slightly when sharpening. By not allowing a wire edge to form, you eliminate this problem.

This method also works well with CPM-S30V.
 
All of my Queens have had horrible factory edges. With my edgepro, it takes about 10 per blade on a stockman sized blade to re-profile/thin out the edge. After that, probably 5 or 10 min or so per blade to run through all the stones. This is using waterstones on D2. Diamonds would be much faster.

Once you get the bevel down, sharpening is very fast and easy. While the edges are waaaaay too thick, I've never had a Queen with a bad heat treat, they hold a great edge for a very long time!
 
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