IMO the Ultra Lock is the next best thing to a fixed blade. I got a dvd to prove it (I don't have to test mine). Do you have anyone showing (video) how much an Axis lock can take? I think the Axis is the next best to the Ultra.
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not to offend Spyderco and BM fans, but this happened...
- Thread starter yinyu
- Start date
IMO the Ultra Lock is the next best thing to a fixed blade. I got a dvd to prove it (I don't have to test mine). Do you have anyone showing (video) how much an Axis lock can take? I think the Axis is the next best to the Ultra.
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You can do all that and blame the knife, take a breath, and call spine whackers morons?
I spine whacked a SOG Auto Clip lock back (no vid) on an Estwing rubber handle and it held up superbly (fingers can relax a bit). Maybe that makes me a moron according to you. That is a mini review on that knife for all Auto Clip owners.
I wont whack a liner/frame lock. They wont get my fingers anyway and my liner lock wont take even a little whack.
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FYI, it's called an "Opinion". I voiced MY opinion, as to what I believe. That's all. The way I use a knife, a lock is really unneeded. I was taught to only cut away from me; and for the purposes I use a knife, a simple slip joint folder will suffice. If you only cut away from yourself, I guarantee that even a knife that fails a spinewack test isn't going to close on your fingers. Again, MY opinion. So, take a Valium, dude. 
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FYI, it's called an "Opinion". I voiced MY opinion, as to what I believe. That's all. The way I use a knife, a lock is really unneeded. I was taught to only cut away from me; and for the purposes I use a knife, a simple slip joint folder will suffice. If you only cut away from yourself, I guarantee that even a knife that fails a spinewack test isn't going to close on your fingers. Again, MY opinion. So, take a Valium, dude.
I think you are missing the point. At least my point from several of my earlier posts in this thread. A knife is often carried for self defense (I study several forms of edged weapon defense). I'm too old and have a bad knee so I can't run away from trouble. I have to face it. That could be a person or persons or a loose pit bull attacking me or a lady accross the street. People like myself that carry knives for these possible situations expect the knife to be the last thing to fail, period. I have carried a Manix for a long time for this reason and thought it a fine weapon (along with performing daily tasks). I was disappointed last night when it failed again and again during a spine whack test. It now makes me doubt all lockbacks, and I have several.
I'm glad to see that Sal says I can send it into Spyderco but I must admit that I am moving to other types of locks (even a well fitted linerlock with thick liners won't fail a spine what test) for my EDC. I also have a couple of nice, small fixed blades that I will be carrying more frequently. Maybe I can even justify that new Dozier Model 6 I've been drooling over for almost a year.
Bottom line, IMHO, any knife I carry I want the lock (if a folder) to hold, no matter what. In a SD situation it would not be unusual for the spine to get whacked by another knife, stick, baseball bat, table, car, wall, etc.
I can still use my Manix around camp, house, and yard but it seems too bad for such a beautiful, and otherwise rugged knife. Maybe the one I get back from Spyderco will not fail but the weakness seems to be inherent in lockbacks, not to blame Spyderdo.
Regards
yablanowitz
Platinum Member
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Bladeprince, Sal made a more complete post on the subject of Manix lock failure in the Spyderco subforum. In it, he said a small run of knives got out with substandard lock bars a couple of years ago. Yours could be one of them. People sent them in, the knives were replaced, the problem was found and corrected, and steps were taken to prevent a recurrence. It was not a general problem with the design or current manufacture, just that one batch. But if the people who got them had not sent them in, the problem might never have been found.
I still think that if you are going to carry a knife for self defense, it should be a fixed blade. ANY lock can fail for a number of reasons, and Murphy's Law guarantees it will happen at the worst possible moment. Trusting your life to a mechanical device like a knife lock is not a very good idea in my opinion. But as I have said before, they are your fingers.
I still think that if you are going to carry a knife for self defense, it should be a fixed blade. ANY lock can fail for a number of reasons, and Murphy's Law guarantees it will happen at the worst possible moment. Trusting your life to a mechanical device like a knife lock is not a very good idea in my opinion. But as I have said before, they are your fingers.
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Agree. I read his post on this thread and will read the Spyderco forum post (thanks). I did think it possible that I might have one of those that are defective. I can't exactly remember when I bought mine but well over a year ago. We shall see.
I do prefer a 3.5" to 4.5" fixed blade but I am not always in a postion where I can carry one. But I am aware that nothing can really replace a good fixed blade for depenability. You may have noticed my mentioning the purchase of a new Dozier I've been wanting. They have may different carry options so maybe a couple of different sheaths will increase the number of days that I can carry it. Until then, I have several options to draw upon (no pun intended).
Thanks
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This is making me like my Busse and Dozier small fixed blades even more!
I also look forward to the new Perrin from Spyderco, I'll have it next week:thumbup: :thumbup: .
I think at times we ask for too much out of folders and to think these locks are so strong is (IMO) asking to lose a finger or two.
Much of the time I cary my knife in a backpack or fanny pack anyway so much of the time I don't care if the knife folds or not.
I also look forward to the new Perrin from Spyderco, I'll have it next week:thumbup: :thumbup: .
I think at times we ask for too much out of folders and to think these locks are so strong is (IMO) asking to lose a finger or two.
Much of the time I cary my knife in a backpack or fanny pack anyway so much of the time I don't care if the knife folds or not.
I consider the test for a lock-knife lock is mainly for utility. I had a Valor fail and it cut my fingers and I am very lucky it didn't cost me my fingers as it was a dull knife. I also tested a Master 440 lock-back and it failed a light spine whack! (it is a cheap knife granted, but I paid $50 for the Valor in 78 and it wasn't considered a cheap knife) My knives that fail the spine whack wont get used to pierce with unless it is paper, butter, etc.
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The extend to which I will spine whack a knife is to hit the spine moderately hard on the palm of my hand. None of my knives have ever failed this test, and I have had quite a few lockbacks. I have also never had a knife close on my fingers no matter what I was putting it through.
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As I thought back, I believe I have had my Manix for about 6-8 months. Also, because of the mass of the Manix blade, I think it will have more inertia and possibly fail more easily with less impact speed than an Delica or other small lockback. I also wonder if a stronger spring might fix the problem.
From last nights tests. I'm not hitting the table that hard and note that the towel also absorbs quite a lot of the impact energy. I does not always fail but I do attemp to hit it with the same about of force, although this is impossible without doing it machanically. Is it scientific? Hardly. Just an admittidly "mickey mouse" test from from a Spyderco fan (still).
http://media.putfile.com/Manix-lock-failure
From last nights tests. I'm not hitting the table that hard and note that the towel also absorbs quite a lot of the impact energy. I does not always fail but I do attemp to hit it with the same about of force, although this is impossible without doing it machanically. Is it scientific? Hardly. Just an admittidly "mickey mouse" test from from a Spyderco fan (still).
http://media.putfile.com/Manix-lock-failure
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Well, if something hits YOUR knife while you're holding it, your arm will absorb a lot of the energy as it swings away.
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Did the same thing on my RAT-1, never a problem.
This beast can have it! Here is a knife that you
can depend on in every situation.
And.....for the price the best buy on the market today!!!!
Okay, Ill say it again, slowly
A locking device on a knife is NOT intendted to prevent the knife blade from folding when that knife is used in an unsafe and damaging manner, it is there to HELP reduce the chance of the knife folding under ORDINARY use, ANYBODY who relies on a locking device on a knife to prevent injury while using that knife in such a manner that the force on the blade would cause it to fold in use is asking for trouble. As for the arguments that one might have to deflect a blugeoning device with a folding knife..good luck with ANY knife in the 3-5'' range, if you doubt this I would love to see a video of this experiment, lock failure will be the least of you trouble..
Learn to use a knife properly and rely on the lock ONLY as a secondary layer of protection, it is the same as a safety on a gun, it is no substitute for proper training and use.
Oh BTW, I think any modern folder from a reliable company will have a locking mech. that is more than enough for the intended purpose.
A locking device on a knife is NOT intendted to prevent the knife blade from folding when that knife is used in an unsafe and damaging manner, it is there to HELP reduce the chance of the knife folding under ORDINARY use, ANYBODY who relies on a locking device on a knife to prevent injury while using that knife in such a manner that the force on the blade would cause it to fold in use is asking for trouble. As for the arguments that one might have to deflect a blugeoning device with a folding knife..good luck with ANY knife in the 3-5'' range, if you doubt this I would love to see a video of this experiment, lock failure will be the least of you trouble..
Learn to use a knife properly and rely on the lock ONLY as a secondary layer of protection, it is the same as a safety on a gun, it is no substitute for proper training and use.
Oh BTW, I think any modern folder from a reliable company will have a locking mech. that is more than enough for the intended purpose.
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Quote:
http://spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=22
"The folder has a modified-Bowie-shaped blade and an MBC rated locking system so the knife could be used for cutting as well as passing or blocking. These combined features have since taken root with the MBC crowd and additionally found favor with the hard-use camp/hunting/outdoor knife industry."
Regards,
3G
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Triton
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I think the man has a point. I'm trying to figure out what sort of usage even in a self defense situation that a "spine whack" simulates. How would this ever happen? When?
Hey, if you want a knife that can stand up to spine wacks, cut through crow bars, whittle cement blocks and still be sharp enough to shave with that's great. I hope you find such a thing and can afford it when you do. However, when are you going to need to cut through crowbars and whittle concrete block with a knife? When are you going to need to have something that can take a determined whack on the spine without folding?
It looks like your finger is resting on the lock while your hitting the blade against the table. From what it looks like to me when you hit the blade it forces the knife to tilt forcing your finger to hit the lock. I might be wrong though the video doesn't show the whole knife. Looks like I'm going to have to go do some spine wacking and find out. Try both the Mini and Full size see if it happens to me.
cutlerylover
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I think a balisong is the next best thing to a fixed blade...Too bad they are illegal almost everywhere...
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