Notes from the Editor....

TennKnifeman said:
... An idiot in an insane asylum with a computer can post to an online forum with the same ease as someone with 40 years in the game.

There are plenty of people who post on forums who do have a clue about what they speak. They've paid their dues, they've done the research, they've been intelligent observers. (One of the posters here I pay to write for Knives Illustrated by the way). If I'm buying articles from a poster I don't think it can be said that I don't have respect for some posters on the online forums.

Unfortunately, to some, whether the poster knows what he is talking about or does not, there is no filter, there is no credibility meter, the statements are just added to the thread, same size type, same type face, and no way for the less informed to tell the difference--so it ALL becomes gospel to them.

That is one of the advantages of knife magazines. As editors we filter out a lot of the crap. You will not read in a knife magazine that some knifemaker "pours his blades". (I once read that misstatement about Randall Knives in an early online forum). Collectively the years in the knife game of Steve Shackleford, Steve Dick, Mark Zalesky and myself will exceed close to 20 years in every instance. We are paid to know the subject, and put together a mix of interesting informative articles that readers will like to read. If we fail in that then don't subscribe--it is an open marketplace.

But also realize there is a possibility that if you do not read ALL the knife magazines there is a chance, a darn good chance, that between the writing of the editors and writers of the various publications you will often learn something you didn't know and that same information and insight will not always be available in a forum. And in a knife magazine you will know for sure when it is published there that at least two other people with the background to know the difference have looked at that article for credibility, accuracy, and content.

That doesn't happen in an online forum--there is no filter. That is not to say I do not learn things on here too--I do, but I also find I have to spend a lot of time wading through sometimes useless blather and personal banter to find them. There quite a bit of wading to be done in this thread alone--as well as some dead-on advice if those involved have enough presence of mind to follow it. Unfortunately sometimes it is hard to tell the good advice from the blather. ...
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My comment here is meant as constructive criticism, so hopefully you will take it that way. I used to subscribe to Knives Illustrated, Tactical Knives and Blade.

Here is my observation of the knife mag filters:

The writers often appear to be a shill for the companies that advertise in the mag.

Due to publication schedules, most of the "stories" are about 6 months later on their scoop than I can get the same information (usually with much better images and better reviews) on the forums.

The writers typically evalute knives using "tests" that are totally unscientific and are often irrelevant to my life (I don't ever make fuzz sticks).

Writers rarely consider alternatives to the knife that they are peddling in the review (when was the last time a negative comment was included in a mag article?). Why use a $400 knife for chopping when $20 tool from the hardware store might better? The knife mags include no differential analysis, which is fundamental in any serious consideration of any tool (or intellectual process for that matter).

So if that is the kind of "filtering" that the knife mags contribute to the knife world, well, I quite uncertain about the "value" and it certainly doesn't lend any impression of credibility to me. The standards in the knife mags are quite low, particularly the image quality (although some are better than others here). I assume it is indicative of the low circulation and limited advertising revenue potential.

The forums are far better at disseminating fundamental information (technical specs, images, some reviews) than virtually any magazine article that I have read in the last 5 years. I agree it is incumbent upon the forum participants to do their own "filtering", but I trust myself far more than the current crop of knife mag journalists.
 
DWinkler said:
Josh Smith is one to put his money where his mouth is. A great asset to any organization and to the knife community. I hope he becomes an ABS board member.
Daniel
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Daniel,

Thank you. That means a lot coming from someone as respected as you.

Josh
 
I have found this to be an interesting thread!

Do away with knife forums..... Man I sure hope not!!

Sure everyone can have a say, but thats what makes them so GREAT!

Where else can you hang out and talk about knives. See pictures of what other guys/gals have purchased lately and hear what they think of them. You can see pics of the insides of makers shops and see what they are working on and how they do it.

For up and coming makers they are an unrivaled source!! Where else can you rub shoulders with the "BIG" guys?? Where else can you ask questions and get them answered?? Need to find a material, just ask and someone probably knows where to get it IF it is available anywhere!

Do I still read the magazines... YES! I read everything related to knives I can find. I take what I can use, where ever I can find it!

In order to get the MOST out of the forums it is IMPORTANT to become a participating part of the community. Once you become part of the community it becomes MUCH easier to know whos' advice to take!

The internet can be a very effective marketing "tool", but if you use it only for self gain you are missing out! I have met a lot of very good people on the internet forums and have learned a lot. I also try to share what little I know.

Sooo.... I hope they never do away with the knife forums. Most of us are smart enough to figure out whos advise to listen to....

Tom
 
SharpByCoop said:
You mentioned this more than once. Please describe the context? Might as well here. Sounds upbeat and right on. That's no surprise from SS.

TennKnifeman: Excellent clarification. Thank you, Bruce. :thumbup:


Coop
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Steve's seminar addressed how the knife publications can help the collector. Well after Steve gave some very good examples Jerry offered up some more ways that they could help such as sponsoring adds in other venues promoting custom knife collecting. Then that developed into possibly getting corporate sponsorship to help in promoting custom knives as "high art" pieces rather than weapons.

We discussed ways to grow the collector base to support the rising number of makers.

There were suggestion for Steve such as possibly adding a "my collection section" in Blade which could showcase collections on a regular basics such as the current "the knife I carry" section.

Someone suggested the more established collectors could sponsor adds promoting the makers they collect, thus creating more demand for the knives in their collections.

We discussed the possibility of forming a Custom Knife Collector's Association to help in addressing the above topics. I have spoken to a few collectors and makers about this and will start a thread shortly to get impute, suggestions and see how much interest there actually is.

We had some new collectors present that really contributed to the discussion.

All in all, it was just a very positive and refreshing open communication of issues, ideas and possible solutions between a versatile group of collectors, makers and knife media folks. One of those discussions you walk away from thinking that something may have been accomplished.
 
I'm sure what Keith means is that you can't just volunteer to serve on the board.:jerkit: If that was the case, probably half of the members would also be board members.

Todd
 
Larry,

I asked this to Josh last night. Perhaps you know. What does the charter/non-profit allow the ABS to do?

The problems have been identified. I am quite certain solutions can be found.

However, the Charter/Non-Profit seems to be providing limitations on how these problems can be addressed.

So it is not as simple as "Put up or Shut up".

So Larry, how about getting with the ABS BOD and find out what the constraints are.

I would appreciate it when you get this information next week if you would forward a copy to me. I'll have my team look it over as well.

WWG
He adapts, he improvises, he overcomes.[/QUOTE]

first off id have to call a bd meeting and i doubt that that would happen
i doubt that they will show up at my house:)
second its not just a charity non-profit
its an educational tax exempt
big difference
i can query these concerns of yours to the bd and they could take them up at there next meeting in reno
will u be there??

would u want to address the bd w these concerns of yours??
?????????
harley
 
Todd Robbins said:
I'm sure what Keith means is that you can't just volunteer to serve on the board.:jerkit: If that was the case, probably half of the members would also be board members.

Todd
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its a nominated
voted on position
this past blade show we were really fortunate in seating bob calvert on the bd
a man who has 30 or 40 yrs experience in the knife world and and an insurance and banking maven hes also a journeyman smith
harley
 
Quote: My comment here is meant as constructive criticism, so hopefully you will take it that way. I used to subscribe to Knives Illustrated, Tactical Knives and Blade.

Response: I take it from that comment that you no longer subscribe, so you would have no idea of any changes or improvements any of us would have made.

Quote: Here is my observation of the knife mag filters: The writers often appear to be a shill for the companies that advertise in the mag.

Response: Totally incorrect. They may appear that way to you. We assign the writers to write about what knives they like. Simply look at KI's coverage of the SHOT show. We cover the show, nearly every exhibitor there, not just advertisers. However, the reality of life is that the most successful companies tend to make interesting knives (one of the reasons they are successful). Interesting knives are what we like to cover--interesting knives make interesting editorial. Successful companies usually have money to advertise.
Another reason many companies are successful is because they advertise. Successful companies do not keep what they do a secret. We do editorial on knives. We are a knife magazine. Knife companies and makers advertise in knife magazines--because we are a knife magazine. It is absolutely natural that at times we will be writing editorial about knives made by advertisers--but if you care to look you will find many times editorial about people or companies who have never run an ad. It's a common thing to throw out there when trying to trash a knife mag--but the facts won't back it up.

Quote: Due to publication schedules, most of the "stories" are about 6 months later on their scoop than I can get the same information (usually with much better images and better reviews) on the forums.

Response: We are not a newspaper, and at KI we do not try to be, and for news, etc. a magazine is not the place to go. For in-depth qualified articles it is where you go. If you compare the dates of the SHOT show with when our coverage of that show hit, you will find that 6 months is a bit overstated.

Quote: The writers typically evalute knives using "tests" that are totally unscientific and are often irrelevant to my life (I don't ever make fuzz sticks).

Response: We write for a wide audience, and some readers do take knives outdoors and use them, often unscientifically. That is one of the things I enjoy putting in KI--not just a knife laying on a table, being looked at, but instead a knife in someone's hand being used.

Quote: Writers rarely consider alternatives to the knife that they are peddling in the review (when was the last time a negative comment was included in a mag article?). Why use a $400 knife for chopping when $20 tool from the hardware store might better? The knife mags include no differential analysis, which is fundamental in any serious consideration of any tool (or intellectual process for that matter).

Response: Take a look at anything written in KI by Mike Black. Especially the upcoming issue where he debunks the "super steel" theories. Not exactly scientific, but as close as anyone is doing out there. And many of us use $400 knives for chopping because we CAN! Not sure I've seen 20 dollar hardware implements that would outperform a quality knife. (Well for driving nails, I do like the right tool for the right job!)

And for negative comments? Again incorrect. Take a look at the last issue of KI in which Clint Thompson described the failure of a SOG Tomahawk in Iraq--but also read about how Clint contacted SOG, and how, based on a KI writer's info. they redesigned the 'hawk. And as for evaluating knives and who is carrying them, one thing you can find in KI is a writer who was on the ground in Iraq training Iraqi policemen. When he wanted to find out what the Special Ops guys were actually carrying, he drove over to their mess and interviewed them.


Quote: So if that is the kind of "filtering" that the knife mags contribute to the knife world, well, I quite uncertain about the "value" and it certainly doesn't lend any impression of credibility to me.

Response: What does imply credibility? A founder of the ABS, B. R. Hughes, writes for KI regularly. A police trainer on the ground in Iraq? A Canadian hunter/outdoorsman taking knives in the field and using them? A professional newspaperman who has written about knives for 20 years? A writer when assigned to write about assisted openers who goes out and buys them out of his own pocket and then takes them apart to compare the mechanisms? Or perhaps an editor who has edited knife publications since 1976, written over a dozen knife books and price guides, and edits the "knife" entry for the World Book Encyclopedia? If that is not credibility then what is?

Quote: The standards in the knife mags are quite low, particularly the image quality (although some are better than others here). I assume it is indicative of the low circulation and limited advertising revenue potential.

Response: OK, what is constructive about that? We are a magazine, printed on high speed presses in large quantity. We do not produce art prints. You get a lot for a $17.95 a year magazine that is delivered right to your door. KI is of comparable printing quality with any similar magazine in any field.

Quote: The forums are far better at disseminating fundamental information (technical specs, images, some reviews) than virtually any magazine article that I have read in the last 5 years. I agree it is incumbent upon the forum participants to do their own "filtering", but I trust myself far more than the current crop of knife mag journalists.

Response: Sorry but I have to ask. If you "used to subscribe" to the knife magazines, what credibility do you have to comment on the current crop of knife mag journalists, or to compare forum information to articles you've read in the past 5 years. You said you used to subscribe--but do you still read the magazines? If so do you buy them off the newsstand? If so you're doing all we could ask anyway--to read the magazine.

If you do read the magazines you are certainly entitled to your opinion on comparisons--however if you are making blanket generalizations about knife magazines in general that you no longer read--then you have no basis of fact. And that is a credibility problem.

My earlier post was simply to state both forums and magazines have their good points--and their shortcomings. But to restate--if you do not do both then you are no better than half-informed. Forums versus magazines are not an either/or for me. I find valuable information in both (including the knife magazines of KI's competitors--whose editors I know to be informed, qualified, and with a tremendous amount of credibility to filter out the tripe.) Incidentally one of those editors wrote me when he saw I had posted here and said, "Watch out." I'm beginning to see what he meant.

One big difference between forums and magazines is that when you read something in a knife magazine you know who wrote it. They put their real name on it. And in a column "To the Point" in KI I generally outline the writer's qualifications to write and comment about their work. I would love to see something similar here.


Bruce Voyles
 
HI Larry,

There are lots of different types of non-profit configuration. The Knifemakers Guild is a non-profit and they pay their board of directors. Currently they have a marketing group under contract that they pay. They allow their makers to put the Guild Logo on their business cards. Every maker gets listed on their web site...not just voting members, etc.

As far as talking to the Board of Directors, I made it very clear to two Board Members that I would be more than happy to come and talk to the Board on the Thursday night before the Blade Show. I was not asked to attend the meeting.

So to sum up:

The ABS could change their non-profit configuration to help their membership.

I have asked to speak to the board...they declined.

Larry, I don't attend the Reno Show as Johnny Perry made it painfully clear at a Board Meeting held several years ago at the SOS SHow in Mesquite Texas that Dealers would not be table holders. Jerry Fisk stood up and explained to Johnny that dealers buy and sell and educate a lot of buyers that many of the members would never reach. Johnny said no.

Larry, question...now that Johnny is no longer a collector (sold off his collection) and is not a knife maker (I don't believe he holds a Smith rating of any kind)....why is he on the Board? Exactly what is his contribution?

Since Johnny Perry decided for the ABS that Dealers should not be table holders at the show. I decided (as did Bob Neal who was also at the meeting) that I would not attend as show where I am not wanted. Although I suspect that many of the makers would like Bob and I at that show.

As well Bob Neal and I had a meeting with two Board members last February in New York). After a fairly heated exchange one of the elected board members told Bob Neal..."Bob if your don't like it Quit." Which is exactly what Bob did.
He looked at me and I laughed and said...this is one of the reasons I quit the ABS years ago.

Granted Bob only spends about $75,000 to $100,000 a year with different ABS makers. So I could see why a member of the board of directors would tell him to quit the ABS.

The ABS must have a lot of $100,000 a year buyers if they can just tell them to quit.

Note, the response was not...Bob why don't you join us at the Board Meeting in Atlanta. Bob why don't you put your concerns in writing and I will submit them to the Board and we can address this at the next meeting. No, nothing like that...just "If you don't like it quit".

Any other questions Larry?

WWG
 
Hey!
Don't stop!

This could all be really good for the custom knife industry.
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
HI Larry,

As far as talking to the Board of Directors, I made it very clear to two Board Members that I would be more than happy to come and talk to the Board on the Thursday night before the Blade Show. I was not asked to attend the meeting.

So to sum up:

The ABS could change their non-profit configuration to help their membership.

I have asked to speak to the board...they declined.

Larry, I don't attend the Reno Show as Johnny Perry made it painfully clear at a Board Meeting held several years ago at the SOS SHow in Mesquite Texas that Dealers would not be table holders. Jerry Fisk stood up and explained to Johnny that dealers buy and sell and educate a lot of buyers that many of the members would never reach. Johnny said no.

Larry, question...now that Johnny is no longer a collector (sold off his collection) and is not a knife maker (I don't believe he holds a Smith rating of any kind)....why is he on the Board? Exactly what is his contribution?

Since Johnny Perry decided for the ABS that Dealers should not be table holders at the show. I decided (as did Bob Neal who was also at the meeting) that I would not attend as show where I am not wanted. Although I suspect that many of the makers would like Bob and I at that show.

As well Bob Neal and I had a meeting with two Board members last February in New York). After a fairly heated exchange one of the elected board members told Bob Neal..."Bob if your don't like it Quit." Which is exactly what Bob did.
He looked at me and I laughed and said...this is one of the reasons I quit the ABS years ago.

Granted Bob only spends about $75,000 to $100,000 a year with different ABS makers. So I could see why a member of the board of directors would tell him to quit the ABS.

The ABS must have a lot of $100,000 a year buyers if they can just tell them to quit.

Note, the response was not...Bob why don't you join us at the Board Meeting in Atlanta. Bob why don't you put your concerns in writing and I will submit them to the Board and we can address this at the next meeting. No, nothing like that...just "If you don't like it quit".

Any other questions Larry?

WWG
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I have some questions Les,

I said I would not join you in this discussion anymore as I felt it was going nowhere. However when I see things that are untrue I cannot sit back. You are spewing disinformation at incredible rates of speed. I appreciate the typing practice though.

I sat down in the middle of your conversation you and Bob were having with the highly respected board member which I will not name. This is not a board member that merely exists but instead produces some of the best knives made today. You were NOT declined in your request to be present at a board meeting. In fact you were invited to discuss your issues with the board. To do that though you were told to call Joe Keesler, the chairman at the time, and get on the agenda. This was YOUR responsibility. I heard him tell you this. Why would the ABS track you down and ask if you'd like to be at the meeting. You knew when it was.

Secondly, Bob was told "Why don't you just quit." The reason was that Bob was at that point yelling at the board member. He was getting quite carried away to the point others sitting around were starting to watch this whole ordeal. Meanwhile the board member had heard so much bitching with no apparent care on you and Bobs part to listen that he was fed up, rightly so. I like Bob and personally think he's a good dealer but he just got a little worked up. We all do at times.

So Johnny Perry has no value? So do you think when a collector stops buying we should not respect his opinion? All his years as a collector are invalidated and could not be an asset to a knife organization? Does this mean when you retire you're opinion is no longer valid? A retired collector sound perfect to me. Someone with collecting experience, without a job, and without small children. I thought you wanted more collectors involved in the ABS. I'm confused.

Les why would the ABS want dealers to exhibit at the show when there are Mastersmiths and Journeyman Smiths waiting to get into the show? You are still welcome to come buy knives. Reputable dealers like Dave Harvey and Daniel O'Malley are there. I have never heard either one bitch about not being allowed to have a table. Why don't you bitch at the AKI for not letting you have a table? Is the ABS a softer target for you?

The last thing, Les, that you were told was that you were welcome to come to Reno, bring three knives, and participate in the collectors corner where you could buy, trade, or SELL as you wish. You were hardly told to stay away. You were also told if you wanted a table that you could pay your $65 dues, earn your master smith's stamp, and come sell knives that you made.

I have no issue with dealers. In fact they are a crucial part of the knife world. I have always said that if you set your price and sell to a dealer the only one you can be mad at is yourself if your not happy.

Les you have a major hard on for the ABS and that's your problem. But don't try to mislead new collectors and makers. It's not professional. As long as I'm around and know the FACTS I will not sit by and watch fellow makers and ABS members be lied about by you.

By the way: ABS Board meeting May 29th: Renaissance Waverly Atlanta Georgia Don't forget to get on the agenda.

www.joshsmithknives.com
 
Hi Josh,

Hate to say Bull S**T, but I have to;

In fact you were invited to discuss your issues with the board. To do that though you were told to call Joe Keesler, the chairman at the time, and get on the agenda. This was YOUR responsability. I heard him tell you this. Why would the ABS track you down and ask if you'd like to be at the meeting. You knew when it was.
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Josh, this is a lie. No one have every told me to contact Joe Keesler to get on the agenda. NO ONE, or I would have done that. I have known Joe since 1987. His was the first custom knife shop I ever went to....when did you first meet him?

Only showing up about an hour after we got back to the hotel and were in the bar. Bob's bitching aside, which he has a right to. Why didn't the Board member offer the things I wrote in the last post? You were there, why didn't you jump in and say something? No, it was much easier just to say "Quit". Guess what, he took him at his word and did exactly what the Board member told him to do.

Josh, as a business man, do you really think the market is that good that you can just tell a major buyer of ABS knives to just "Quit" the ABS??? Instead of pissing him off, this highly regarded knife maker should have been asking Bob exactly what I wrote in my previous post. Bob Neal is as highly regarded as the highly regarded maker....and should have received the same respect.

Primarily because you were a late arrival at the discussion you are incorrect of your assessment of the situation.

So Johnny Perry has no value?
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Josh I asked this question of Larry. Since you seemed inclined to ride to his rescue (even though you said you wouldn't bother with this thread anymore). I'll ask you, as a retired collector who is no longer involved in the custom knife market (neither a collector or maker or dealer) what is his contribution.

I have asked this question several times and no one has an answer. Even your answer was no answer. A collector 5 years removed from being one has a limited understanding of what the market is doing. If his main contribution was that of an active collector and he is no longer one, and has not been so for over 5 years. His worth to the ABS is now limited at best.

I think you may be thinking of a retired collector in the same light as a retired maker. Whose skills may be rusty but could still possibly be of some help. It is not the same for a collector who quits. Pounding steel has been the same for many years (although there have been machine upgrades, steel and heat treat knowledge). While there will always be continuous improvement in the making of knives. Collecting doesn't have the set parameters that knife making does. Science and experience set the parameters for knife making. Where as "WHAT I LIKE" sets the parameters for most knife collecting. Hardly scientific and even doing it for years does not make you an expert in the market.

But I'll let you address specifically what he can contribute to the ABS.

So do you think when a collector stops buying we should not respect his opinion?
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Due to how fast the custom knife market is now moving. If you are on a board of directors due directly to you being a collector. And you are no longer active, your opinion will be dated at best and worthless in the worst case scenario. If you want him on the Board, create an Emeritus status for him. Then feel free to ask him his opinion, but not as an active board member.

Does this mean when you retire you're opinion is no longer valid?
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Exactly right, If I had not been active as a dealer for 5 years, I would not feel qualified to answer specific questions about the custom knife market. I feel qualified now because I am full time and work in the custom knife market every day.

A retired collector sound perfect to me. Someone with collecting experience, without a job, and without small children. I thought you wanted more collectors involved in the ABS. I'm confused.
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Your confusion should now be allayed. What you have to understand about collecting, is that each collector sets up their collection to their wants and desires. Johnny collected what he wanted to. Then he sold it off. So other than discussing knives and makers he dealt with 5 years passed, his experience is becoming less and less pertinent with each passing year.

As for collecting experience, you will have to quantify and qualify the "Experience" as to how it is pertinent to today's market.

There was a collector named Joe Drouin, he had a superlative collection of Guild members knives. For years he displayed at the Guild show, it was always one of my favorite displays. However, most of the knives were from "older" Guild members (length of time in the Guild, not age). Many had retired and some passed away. So while his collection was excellent with each passing year (eventually he was on a fixed income and stopped adding pieces) became dated. While this took nothing away from his collection and the great stories he had from days gone by. Each year, like his collection it had less and less to do with newer makers and the current market. BTW, his collection was donated to the NKCA and I hope is on display in their new building.

Les why would the ABS want dealers to exhibit at the show when there are Mastersmiths and Journeyman Smiths waiting to get into the show?
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.

Josh when this meeting took place there was no waiting list. Because this happened before the first show ever took place.

You are still welcome to come buy knives. Reputable dealers like Dave Harvey and Daniel O'Malley are there. I have never heard either one bitch about not being allowed to have a table.
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Josh, you see they weren't at the ABS Board Meeting like I was. They didn't even know the show was going on then. They didn't know they were being excluded. I would also suspect, that unlike Bob and I, they were not MEMBERS of THE ABS. Johnny Perry went out of his way to make sure to all in the room that dealers were not welcome at the show.

You have said in the past you were glad that dealers could not get in the show early and buy knives....or words to that affect. I even asked you if your dealers knew you felt that way about dealers. You see you have a not so hidden hard on for dealers.

I know you personally were happy that Daniel showed up to the Reno Show.;)

Speaking of Daniel, I don't believe he sets up at any any shows. At least not east of the Mississippi. So why would he complain?

Why don't you bitch at the AKI for not letting you have a table? Is the ABS a softer target for you?
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The AKI does not openly discriminate against its membership. Primarily because it is not an Organization like the ABS which does have associate members.

The AKI is strictly an invitational run by Phil Lobred, again, not an organization. The makers were initially invited by Phil (again, his show he can do what he wants), eventually as table holders retired, the current table holders would vote on who to invite next to be a table holder. Collectors are also invited, yes, I get an invitation each time it is held.

As you can see, the AKI is nothing like the ABS (Other than they have an A as the first initial)

This is the same reason I don't have a problem with Dave Harvey eliminating all dealers...even those who have had tables for years. Why? Because it is Dave's show. It is not an organization that discriminates against its membership prior to the first show ever happening.

Lets compare the ABS to another Knife Organization, say...the Knifemakers Guild. Can dealers have table at that show...why yes they can...if they are an Associate Member (which both Bob and I were when Johnny Perry decried there would not be dealers getting tables). The Guild does require that a dealer only have members in good standing knives on their table. We suggested that the ABS offer Associate members a table with the same requirement for ABS Makers.

See it has nothing to do with the ABS being a "Soft" Target. You want to compare apples to oranges ( I suspect its just you didn't know any better or you wouldn't have used the AKI as part of your example). I like comparing apples to apples.

The last thing, Les, that you were told was that you were welcome to come to Reno, bring three knives, and participate in the collectors corner where you could buy, trade, or SELL as you wish.
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.

That was for collectors...not dealers. Hence the name "Collectors Corner".

Josh I am here to tell you that if I was there with my knives on the tables, there would be table holders in the room complaining that I was there.

You see what other dealers are doing is getting a hotel room at a show. Then invite your collectors up to your room for a "private" showing prior to the show opening, or even during the show. Or worse come into the show and poach customers from the table holders.

]QUOTE]You were hardly told to stay away. You were also told if you wanted a table that you could pay your $65 dues, earn your master smith's stamp, and come sell knives that you made.[/QUOTE]

Josh, once again you are wrong...or at least ignorant of what the show is all about. The show is open to all "Active Smiths", I surprised you didn't know this since it was Harvey Dean who told Bob and I this in New York. Perhaps you hadn't joined the conversation yet. As you recall we were already talking when you showed up. you would know this.

So technically I would only have to be the dues for an Apprentice Smith and then I could qualify to get a table.

Les you have a major hard on for the ABS and that's your problem. But don't try to mislead new collectors and makers. It's not professional. As long as I'm around and know the FACTS I will not sit by and watch fellow makers and ABS members be lied about by you.
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Josh, as long as you are around. I will not let you lie about meetings that you were at only part of the time and only heard part of what was going on. As well things you mistakenly thought were said directly to me.

Yes, it is professional of me to point out ways that an knife organization can improve itself. It is also professional of me to correct you and any one else who gets their facts wrong. Just as I would expect someone to correct me if I were wrong...as Kevin Cashen did in another thread.

Josh, you make your living through the skills taught to you by others involved in the ABS. As such you have the same hard on for those who would question your organization.

Who is the person I need to talk with to get on the Agenda for next year?

Feel free to pass along to any and all the board members that they don't have to wait till next May to talk with me.

I'm pretty easy to find.

Oh, Tai don't worry this thread still has legs!

WWG
 
"Less" you just don't ever shut up, do you?? Way to hijack this thread!!

Since you are so smart and have sooo much money to spend, why don't you go start your own knife organization? It would be PERFECT.... :rolleyes:

Why are you so insulting to makers?? You are a legend in your own mind!!


How is it that you are still around on Blade Forums using your "WWG" user name?? We all know who you are and if you do a search on Les Robertson you can see whats thought of your good name!


You strike me as a spoiled little brat that throws a fit if he doesn't get his way.


I think it is not just your fingers that are exhausted, but your importance and relevance to the handmade knife world!


Go-Away-Dont_go_mad.jpg



Tom
 
As a collector, and an associate ABS member,, I find that Les is completely on target. I don't agree with all he says, but he sure is on topic in this thread.
 
Joss said:
As a collector, and an associate ABS member,, I find that Les is completely on target. I don't agree with all he says, but he sure is on topic in this thread.
Click to expand...


Joss, its not so much that Less doesn't have good idea's its the fact that he thinks no one else does! He thinks he is the only one that can figure out how to sell knives.....

In this thread he has totally hijacked it to being a bash on the ABS and their makers.... I don't even belong to the ABS and it raises my hackles!!

It would be like someone trying to tell you how to raise your kids right, by telling you how smart they are and pointing out what you are doing wrong.... EVEN though they had never had any kids!! :rolleyes:

Enough is enough...

Tom
 
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