Notes from the Editor....

Josh,

Is what B&B talking about something that the charter of the ABS allows it to do?

The technology is fairly simple.

At the show the knives could be photographed and then uploaded to the web site. Creating a "Slide Show". As well you could use a DVD Camera to set up a narrative while someone holds each knife. You can upload the DVD to the web site, upload it to a link that requires a code (could charge money to defray costs) and collectors could down load it.

As for hammer-in's live video feeds could be used. At a minimum and DVD could be provided to all who attend the hammer in. As well you could upload this to your web site.

Lots of Ideas and constructive criticism, but I always get told "We Can't Do That because of the Non-Profit Status".

WWG
 
I believe it could be very productive to have a round table discussion between the ABS board and members. Perhaps a group of 20-25 board members, makers and collectors to put issues and suggestions on the table for positive open discussion. The board meets in Atlanta, there's the ABS banquet, why not a small discussion group?

If that's successful, then perhaps a larger town hall format meeting could be worked out.
I know it's a long shot, but at the very least it could open up some lines of communication.
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Josh,

Is what B&B talking about something that the charter of the ABS allows it to do?

At the show the knives could be photographed and then uploaded to the web site. Creating a "Slide Show". As well you could use a DVD Camera to set up a narrative while someone holds each knife. You can upload the DVD to the web site, upload it to a link that requires a code (could charge money to defray costs) and collectors could down load it.

As for hammer-in's live video feeds could be used. At a minimum and DVD could be provided to all who attend the hammer in. As well you could upload this to your web site.

Lots of Ideas and constructive criticism, but I always get told "We Can't Do That because of the Non-Profit Status".

WWG
Click to expand...

I'm not well versed in the "charter". I sleep just fine at night without a good "charter" to go over each night.:)

I'm more interested in what I can control with my hammer-in. I doubt a web-cast of a hammer-in shows up in the non-profit code.

How is a live feed set up. You're going to have to get real detailed for me. I'm interested but lack the technological know-how. I like the idea though.

Your point is relevant though when it comes to the show. There may or may not be guidelines in the non-profit against the kind of preview you lay out for the show. I don't know. The show committee would have to explore that.

"Lots of Ideas and constructive criticism, but I always get told "We Can't Do That because of the Non-Profit Status"."

Maybe your presentation, approach, and lack of solutions is your problem. Many of your ideas hold water, but you tend dump it on their head instead of leading them to drink.

Off to my charter....hence therefore such a matter stipulates :yawn:.. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
Hi Kevin,

As it has been explained to me, the Charter does not allow the implementation of any thing that could be considered the ABS indirectly making a profit.

If the ABS Attorney will not allow the dues paying members to put the ABS logo on their business card. How could they possibly allow the things that B&B suggested.

No, I am not bashing the ABS again. My point is...how can a discussion be held when the very business entity of the ABS would not allow any of the things, such as what B&B suggested?

Josh or any other member of the ABS...are changes possible without the changing of the current Non-Profit configuration?

WWG
 
Josh,

Like you I have no idea what he non-profit allows and does not allow.

Its like asking me to solve a math problem without giving me the equation.

Give me the scenario that the ABS would allow and I will give you a solution to any problem you could come up with. Not saying that my solution would be popular...however it would be a solution.

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Kevin,

As it has been explained to me, the Charter does not allow the implementation of any thing that could be considered the ABS indirectly making a profit.

If the ABS Attorney will not allow the dues paying members to put the ABS logo on their business card. How could they possibly allow the things that B&B suggested.

No, I am not bashing the ABS again. My point is...how can a discussion be held when the very business entity of the ABS would not allow any of the things, such as what B&B suggested?

Josh or any other member of the ABS...are changes possible without the changing of the current Non-Profit configuration?

WWG
Click to expand...

Hi WWG.

I wouldn't expect or even suggest any grand changes would come about as the result of a small round table discussion at Blade, but more start a dialog as to possibly updating the ABS website, perhaps address collector education in regard to the forged blade and increasing interest and awareness to help expand the forged knife collector base.

Even though there's been plenty of negatives addressed here in this thread, I do believe we are seeing some modest but positive and exciting changes in the ABS such as the new Reno Show format and the move to San Antonio.

I agree with B&B in that understanding and communication is very important if we are going to get past this ABS vs. Forum thing and move on to more productive matters as has also been discussed here.
 
Hi Josh

If you are interested in doing a live feed of the hammer-in, I'd suggest you contact Johnny Stout as he did a few of those a few years back with the ability of viewers to text and voice comments and ask questions as I recall.

Secondly, at the Montana Knifemakers show which unfortunately you might have missed this year or else I missed you there, I was posting images into BF>Custom all weekend and was up at 4 am editing images and posting them and I had the computer running with the Forums up so any maker or guest could communicate with others if desired. Unfortunately, I don't think that the board really understood what I was doing but I know that they now are interested in seeing that sort of thing done again. I just don't get out west as often but do enjoy that show.

you might do a search for the thread or check my site

www.phymurphotos.fototime.com

to see the images posted from the show

Also at the show, I ran a slide show on the laptop of my collection which is also on the site above and I believe makers and collectors enjoyed viewing that.
 
Originally Posted by brownshoe


you are fully correct, kohaii lives to stir up trouble, his statement about josh's kids proves it. he'd have been banned for his dick statement if he didn't have his fan club. it's amazing how muck he's like cliff stamp the one he hates so much.

Total B.S. Not even close to the truth.

wwg is all about money, he's stated that the only knives in his collection are those which increase in value. he never buys for fun alone. wwg is not capable of understanding that the abs is happy to turn out smiths that compete with current members. the abs is happy to improve the skills of existing members. its the mission of the abs. its mission is not to make money for the members. more smiths only threaten the mediocre smiths since they will die out earlier. good smiths aren't threatened, they'll just get better. however the more smiths, the harder it is for wwg to hype his posse and maintain his customer's investments. wwg would bash anything he couldn't manipulate as part of his business plan.

More B.S. WWG spends a lot of time of his own in various venues trying to educate in General. Without direct regard to what he has for sale.

i just love your tag line for fowler..."home spun" i've read every article of his in the last ~7 years, he still hasn't released any of his secrets or cohesive testing results on his "performance blades." this secrecy alone is enough to show he doesn't belong in the abs. as you say, his knives speak for themselves, particularly when you pick one up. however, i'd bet even harley would admit home spun's articles are highly entertaining.

More ill-informed B.S. Ed does not hide his research at all.

hanson's wrong about one thing, there are not a lot of collectors present in this subforum. there is a small group with similar interests. most discussions are driven by less than 15 people most of which are forged blade collectors. there's a lot more diversity in the custom knife collecting world than is represented here.

15? I think not. But will agree that many of our topics regard the forged blade. But no sub-group can ever represent the diversity in any whole area.

Like I said ill-informed and very little based on actual knowledge. Just poor conclusions based on very little actual truth.


Harley, I think the question would be for Brownshoe to explain his conclusions. They do not represent the reality I have experienced.
 
Mr. Bastid.

Kohai has said himself that he believes his role is to speak his truth (opinion) and let the flames fly.

WWG agreed with me, he's about money. Read it above.

I've read all of Fowler's articles on his performance blade and nothing was really revealed. The testing presented was not close to science or comprehensive. Based on this, I wouldn't buy his more indepth product. I've seen and held many of his knives...one design, one purpose. OK if that's your thing, but not certainly not the Michaengelo or DaVinci his ads in Blade last year claimed him to be.

Seems to me I see the same names posting all the time here and it's a core group of about 15 like minded souls.

Shaldag, thanks for keeping me humble. Opinions are like a33holes, and I can count on you to tell me what mine smells like. You must enjoy it.

Keep going Larry. Spread a different opinion. I'd hope some of you on these forums would be old enough to believe in the concept that there is more than one way to look at something and two people with disparate opinions can be both right within their frame of reference. For example, Josh is 26, that's his reference point. I wouldn't expect him to have the same point of view as WWG who is almost twice his age.
 
A few things I have learned or were re-inforced by reading most of this thread (not in any particular order):

Constructive criticism is easier to take but a slap in the face will generate more action on the surface. Deep down cooperation works better in this type of business.

The statements made by Carolyn were not quite as strong as they came across as written. I know Carolyn, BR and Bruce Voyles pretty well and know they do not have a total lack of respect for everyone that post on knife forums.

The ABS is a good organization. The leadership is slow to react but they will listen if things are presented in a way that is reasonable and does not suggest radical change. They are very protective of their “Tax Exempt” Educational status. This is different from a standard non-profit organization.

WWG is kind of opinionated and doesn’t care if readers like what he says or not. He calls it as he sees it based on his personal experience. Knifemakers would do well to pay attention. Don’t expect sugar coating.

Speaking of a total lack of sugar coating, Larry Harley. Larry went through a rough time recently. The ABS, ABS directors and factions within the organization were there to help when he needed it most. Larry is loyal and don’t expect him to ever turn his back on those who came to his aid. Also if you attack his friend you attack him.

More on Larry, I am glad to read you are willing to get back in Cutting Competitions. I think every knifemaker should. It is a great learning experience.

Ed Fowler writes well and from what I have heard and read, does do a lot of testing. I would really like to see if his research performs as well as he says. I have a few connections and would be honored to help get something set up that is fair and entertaining. I still don’t understand the “changes in the ABS” that have him up-set.

I don’t understand a lot of forum shorthand.

Josh Smith is one to put his money where his mouth is. A great asset to any organization and to the knife community. I hope he becomes an ABS board member.

Conflict in knife forums attracts attention like the magazines at the checkout counter at the grocery store. I know there is a lot of BS but I read it anyway.

Personal attacks waste a lot of forum space and cause me to not read posts that may be important. It takes a lot of time to weed out the good from the waste of time posts.

Daniel
 
I just read this entire thread, and it saddens me deeply. First, I think that the knife magazines are threatened by this, and any other, forum dedicated to knives. I stopped suscribing to Blade and Knives Illustrated several years ago when I found the wealth of information available on the internet. I'm sure that their collective circulations would be much larger, if not for the forums, and I'm sure that causes them some grief. Secondly, I found some posts that don't speak well of their authors, most of which came from people I expect to come across negatively. I did not, however, expect Larry Harley to exhibit the low class attitude he has shown here. I've never met him, don't really care for his style of knives, and only knew him by reputation. This forum is certainly good at allowing people to show their true colors, and his are certainly dissappointing.

Todd
 
brownshoe said:
Shaldag, thanks for keeping me humble. Opinions are like a33holes, and I can count on you to tell me what mine smells like. You must enjoy it.
Click to expand...

Actually, what I do not enjoy is reading insults to custom knifemakers, production knifemakers, knife purveyors, and/or knife collectors. This is a knife forum, after all, and I usually come here because I like the products and the company (for the most part). Considering that a large number of Brownshoe's posts contain one or more of the insults to makers (custom and production), purveyors, and/or collectors, one can understand why I am irritated at finding them on a knife forum. Even though the forum can get a little argumentative at times, and some of us are known for their plain speech, very few posters are as rude as Brownshoe... and very few posters are as wrong as Brownshoe. (Examples on request...as many of the regulars know.) In general, the content and tone of the forums is lowered by Brownshoes's posts.

And Brownshoe, one more thing. To sink to your level of crudity, it is easy to know what your anal orifice smells like. Your posts are full of the contents.

My apologies to the rest of the forumites for the crudity.
 
brownshoe said:
WWG agreed with me, he's about money. Read it above.

I've read all of Fowler's articles on his performance blade and nothing was really revealed. The testing presented was not close to science or comprehensive. Based on this, I wouldn't buy his more indepth product. I've seen and held many of his knives...one design, one purpose. OK if that's your thing, but not certainly not the Michaengelo or DaVinci his ads in Blade last year claimed him to be.

Seems to me I see the same names posting all the time here and it's a core group of about 15 like minded souls.
Click to expand...

Being that WWG is is in retail, it is obvious that much of what he does evolves around making money, but in his comment he was also being facetious.

Ed works with a gentleman by the name of Rex Walter. He is a scientist. Together they have informed people of everything they have learned about making high performance knives. This is something you obviously know nothing about. You should join Ed's forum. There is a chat line where Ed and Rex answer questions. You can get whatever information you want there.

There are definitely more than 15 collectors that take part on this forum. Even the core is made up of more than that. There is definitely not a broad representation of those total number of knife collectors, but I haven't been able to find any other place that has a broader spectrum. If you know of one, please inform me as to where to find it.

Discussion is biased towards forged blades, and it would be nice to see more from the stock removal group, but that's just the way things are right now.
 
DWinkler said:
The statements made by Carolyn were not quite as strong as they came across as written. I know Carolyn, BR and Bruce Voyles pretty well and know they do not have a total lack of respect for everyone that post on knife forums.
Click to expand...

That may well be true, Daniel, and I surely would like to believe it to be so.

However, since Mrs. Hughes neither participates on nor even reads the forums, all we have to go by on this point is what she wrote in her editorial. Since she spent a fair bit of time emphasising the importance of responsibility in journalism, we can fairly assume that, at a minimum, she meant what she wrote. The comments attributed to B.R. at the ABS banquet were far more strong (I wasn't there, but multiple parties who were confirm those comments) and don't leave much room for misinterpretation.

Roger
 
Mr Brownshoe,

Study more, maybe one day you will get there.
Ever talked to WWG, ever talked with Ed? (Ever gotten advice from them?) Your comment that WWG agrees with you illustrates that you have no idea.

I doubt it or you would know that many of your conclusions are in fact not even close to being correct. Just because you have not seen Ed's findings or talked to him about them does not mean they do not exist (in fact he is known to share his findings to anyone who asks). It just means you have not cared to actually look for them.
 
daniel, it is obvious to me that BR, Carolyn and Bruce don't think poorly of everyone that participates on knife forums. If they did, they would poorly of quite a few members of the ABS, including a couple that are on the board.

I believe that the ABS is a fine organization, that could be better. My hope is that the board is open to implementing changes that will make the organization better, and stronger.
 
Keith,

You need to go back and reread what I wrote. I said nothing derogatory about Josh's kids. I asked (in response to his comment about his kids) if they knew he was using them as an excuse.

My follow up to that was, about my experience with having two small children, a wife, a full time job, going to Graduate School full time and running my knife business.

My point was to show that I understood the position he was in. Further, that having a family (which a lot of people in the custom knife community do) should not be the reason you can't do an hours worth of research to help the organization you belong to.

Lastly, I said he was in a "Fortunate" Position (not lucky) to work for himself and be able to spend time with his kids when he wants. Again, I have been through that, one is now in college and the other a sophomore in HS. So I understand how great that can be.

Keith, if you are going to try and stir up trouble at least know what you are talking about.

WWG
 
Hi Keith,

You might want to check your facts. Especially in light of some of the comments that BR made at the Fisk Micro-Show.

Better yet, why don't you get Carol and/or BR to come on to Blade Forums and "Clarify" what they meant.

I don't think you are in a position to speak for them, nor should try to put your self in that light.

WWG
 
Spark said:
Let's stop with the name calling & dick waving, folks. If you want to offer criticism of the ABS, make it constructive criticism. Past that, there's no need to be rude.
Click to expand...
spark
I apologize to everyone involved
but when pushed verbally or physically I push back
as U can read
dufus and butt boy did just that
I see a difference in debating what I consider facts
and that's what I was doing to homespun
I dint start the foul mouth name calling and inundo had dufus and butt boy said to my face what they said here
id be in the county jail eating grits and powdered eggs
do U allow folks to talk to U like that????
as far as WWG goes well:) I gave up on him yrs ago
I,am glad to see some of the post after mine
are more civil
and I,ll try to keep my self in ck
i dont mind constructive criticism of the abs
but it was the shark feeding frenzey that got to me

harley
 
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