Notes from the Editor....

I wonder what BR's views are about knife forums, and whether his opinions have anything to do with the way Carolyn feels?

Of course there is a lot of uniformed, useless crap that finds its way into what is posted on the forums. There is also a huge amount of informative and educational stuff to be found as well.

It might just be, that if asked, Carolyn would actually have a more accepting opinion of forums, and that there are things that she could point to that she feels are good. It would actually be interesting to sit down with many of the long time members of the ABS and get their opinions of knife forums and other things that have happened over since the organization first began.
 
Joss said:
Yes, there are pompous fools, but they are identified the moment they start posting.
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They can say some mighty hurtful things, some have been banned for it, some not, because they don't cross the "line", like me.;)

There is a strong thread of southern gentility that us city slickers miss, sometimes that the ABS holds very close to heart. I don't accept it...but I do understand it.

Keith Montgomery said:
I wonder what BR's views are about knife forums, and whether his opinions have anything to do with the way Carolyn feels?
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Oh, heck, Keith, you can bet your bottom dollar that they do....and I had some palaver with him on my last ABS salvo before Blade...he didn't like the post, one damned bit.



Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Blade is testing marketing making their magazine available in a digital format. That is obviously in response to the popularity of the internet.
 
Ed Fowler said:
One problem I see with forums is the lack of real names. Those who hide behind an unknown label (cq776, etc) can make statements without accountability, many times this leads down the wrong path.
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I strongly agree Ed.

Keith Montgomery said:
Blade is testing marketing making their magazine available in a digital format. That is obviously in response to the popularity of the internet.
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Very true Keith. An advance digital test issue of the December Blade is out.
 
Ed Fowler said:
One problem I see with forums is the lack of real names. Those who hide behind an unknown label (cq776, etc) can make statements without accountability, many times this leads down the wrong path.

I have a special appreciation for those who use their real names. I believe this alone would lend a little credability to statments made.
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mr fowler,

i understand your point. but there may be good reasons to use a pseudonym. i live in a small country in europe and there is only one guy in europe with my name: me. as soon as you know it, you know my phone number, my address, my profession and so on. but i don't want everybody to know what my hobbies are, what i spend my money for, what i think about certain issues etc. so i use a pseudonym, but everyone who sends me an e-mail or a personal message through bladeforums gets my real name with the reply.

using a pseudonym does not necessarily mean that you are rude (although i have been guilty of this myself...) and uneducated, and using your real name doesn't mean that you are are always polite and knowledgeable.

with kind regards,
hans (my real first name)
 
Kohai999 said:
mrs hughes: "I probably believe this more strongly than he does because I refuse to read anything written on any forum."
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what an absurd argument! one of the main characteristics of believers is to ignore unpopular resources and facts and to base their opinions exclusively on opinions that support their opinions...

Kohai999 said:
mr voyles: "Simply because someone spends hours a day on a forum posting whatever may pop into their head does not mean they have an opinion."
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simply because you are an old school journalist doesn't mean that you are inevitably smarter than anybody else. the print media can be as full of utter nonsense as any other media. proof? see mrs hughes article...

regards,
hans
 
Hans,

You are right on target with your posts, and firing for effect! :thumbup:

Peter
 
Keith Montgomery said:
Blade is testing marketing making their magazine available in a digital format. That is obviously in response to the popularity of the internet.
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The answer to the internet challenge isn't to take the print document and bring it online. It is to use its assets and leverage what it does best - not reading longish articles, but browsing tons of pictures, interacting, etc.

One thing the ABS could do is have a moderated forum where ABS members would have a reserved area, maybe with sub sections reserved to JS+MS. They could also help makers develop their online presence in other ways (e.g., one page per maker on the ABS site, with pictures of their work).
 
Joss said:
The answer to the internet challenge isn't to take the print document and bring it online. It is to use its assets and leverage what it does best - not reading longish articles, but browsing tons of pictures, interacting, etc.

One thing the ABS could do is have a moderated forum where ABS members would have a reserved area, maybe with sub sections reserved to JS+MS. They could also help makers develop their online presence in other ways (e.g., one page per maker on the ABS site, with pictures of their work).
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Great idea IMO.
 
The quote by Ms. Hughes strikes me as ignorant in the extreme.

Mr. Voyles' quote sounds to me like someone who really wants his exclusive knife-writing club back.

Old Physics is correct: "Generally, the half-witted, the moronic, the ignorant, and the ill-intended reveal their intentions with every mis-spelled word and every over-heated tirade. There may be more 'crap' in forums ... but I strongly believe there is valuable information, interesting opinions, and even friendship to be found on-line."


I have seen the ignorant booted (figuratively) from the forums with amazing regularity.

I have learned more about knives from these forums than I have from any magazine.

I have also made a few good friends, with whom I share a number of common interests.

Had Kohai started the thread in Whine and Cheese, my reply could have been shorter and more direct.:D
 
Having been told of the opinion that BRHughes has of knife forums, there is no doubt in my mind that he has had a great deal of influence in creating the views expressed by Mrs. Hughes. When all is said and done, their opinion doesn't matter a hill of beans. All it does is show that they have a problem with the open forum approach, and feel that everyday folks don't have the right to share their opinions, whether those opinions are educated and informed or come from total ignorance.

I have noticed, more often recently than in the past, that some people use forums to go on personal crusades to destroy the reputations of a manufacturer or maker that they have had a problem with. It has been my experience that unless there are good reasons for this persons complaints, that they will be shot to pieces by the rest of the membership. Just because there are people that expound uneducated drivel on forums doesn't mean that the people reading that stuff are going to accept it as fact.

It appears that some people have a problem with the fact that people can openly express their opinions, right or wrong, on knife forums. In my opinion, it is those people that have the problem, not the knife forums.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
It appears that some people have a problem with the fact that people can openly express their opinions, right or wrong, on knife forums. In my opinion, it is those people that have the problem, not the knife forums.
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In my short time of knowing some of the "secrets" of the ABS.....expression of dissent has been one of the cardinal sins. The "evil" of forums is not only that of rudeness and inconsiderate behavior, but it is in the root of free speech...no individual beyond moderators and the forum operator can shut you down, or make you shut up(this is not always a good thing.:D:D). Those that don't want to hear what you have to say are not simply content with ignoring you....they want to take away your voice.

That is absolutely chilling.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
It should be recognized that the printed media has very little in common with forums. Printed media presents the authors informed and sometimes not so informed opinions. Any response to the content of the printed item is generally only printed at the discretion of the publication.
Forums are the next best thing to a group of people with similar interests physically meeting in a group. As we all know, when people get together like this, discussions can range from an exchange of valuable information to the totally absurd. Given all the eccentric characters and strong opinions found in the collecting world, it obvious that not all information can be taken at face value. Unlike information published in the printed media, all items placed on the forums can be challenged, questioned or corrected immediately.
Printed publications will always be valuable, but the forums provide immediate interaction with people of similar interest, but separated by great distances.
Wolfgang
 
Keith, I agree that the opinions of Mrs. Hughes or Mr. Hughes don’t matter a hill of beans, at least to you or me. Although I see Mrs. Hughes article as an ignorant and clumsy attempt to control free speech and the dissemination of information, there are others that probably see it differently. I would imagine that makers, photographers, writers, etc. that for whatever reason need the support of the ABS (whether that need is real or imagined) might see the editorial as a warning to stay in line and stay off the forums.

Ed and Don have posted in this thread and it will be interesting to see if other makers do.

Bill
 
When any individual, group or organizatin shuts itself off from criticism (both positive and negative) it will become stagnent. You are very correct when you say that criticism is not welcome in the ABS, the threads that criticise the ABS are very probably the motivation behind the editorial.

I have criticised the dictates of the ABS on many occasions, not to harm the ABS but an attempt to keep the organization in touch with the forged blade as I see it. When I wrote my first article titled Forge it Thick, I was nearly expelled from the ABS, BR led the attack. When I wrote in favor of brass another attack followed, when I corrected a statememt from BR about Scagel using a flat grind, again I created a serious wave.

None of these articles were meant as attacks on the ABS, only my interest in keeping those who read my articles informed. I have long suggested juried articles, the dangers of such a practice probably out weigh the benefit. Still we all need to put our best foot forward when we write.

I love the ABS for what it stood for and what it could be.
 
Kohai999 said:
From American Bladesmith, Summer 2007, Issue 20, written by Carolyn Hughes....

....I probably believe this more strongly than he does because I refuse to read anything written on any forum. It is extremely difficult for me to accept what is written by "wannabe authorities", who don't have a clue regarding the topic on which they are pontificating,...
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Wow. Irony so thick you could cut it with a... something. What do you call those sharp pointy things again? I guess I should know but then I'm just one of the ignorant unwashed.

rmd
 
Ed,


Your statement "I love the ABS for what it stood for and what it could be." made me think. What did the ABS stand for that has changed in your opinion. I've been an ABS member for about 20 years. With the exception of producing cutting competitions then not producing cutting competitions and the ABS Show I can't think of any real changes in the organizations direction.

BR and Carolyn Hughes are fine people that have done a lot to promote forged knives and I will always be grateful for their involvement. Carolyn’s statement in the "American Bladesmith" is merely her opinion. It is the same attitude I have witnessed with the majority of ABS board members since the beginning. They like to do things their way. The rest of the world can either get on board or move around, it wont change the ABS direction.

Bruce Voyles has not changed in the 20 or so years I have known him either. He never has liked people to disagree with him and doesn't take change very well. Heck, Bruce isn't over the Civil War yet!

Of course these statements are just my opinion. I don’t agree with Carolyn or Bruce and think their statements are closed minded and short sighted.

The same as everyone on this forum, they are neither right or wrong just stating opinions.


Daniel
 
That is one huge question Dan! What could The ABS be?

These are some of my thoughts:
Bill had an extesive lybrary, much of it about knives. Bill and I talked, he hoped that one day these books would be available to members who wanted to study the forged blade.

When Bill taught me about the forged blade, it was an introduction with many questions and venues of the forged blade that awaited exploration. At that time Bill saw the future of the forged blade with a lot of learning awaiting. Suddenly anything new (or old rediscovered) became a threat.

The Quillion "art" dagger - to be made this way, the description is very specific. It seems that the ABS leadership has chosen to define what is art and what is not. Look at the knives photographed in the journal - need I say more?
Why not - "Make your dream art knife and be ready to defend it? "

There is still a lot to learn about the development of the forged blade. Where is the ABS research team?

The ABS school should be sending students to our industry filled with questions rather than closed minds.

Fit and finish have come a long way, but how about performance?
How about research?

These are a few of my thoughts, thanks for that question.
 
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