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Octagon handles history thread
- Thread starter Brent Halverson
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In that catalog Mann lists their handles as for single bit or double bit axe heads. Within that, some are oval and some octagon. Next is the pattern. For example, you could get a handle for a double bit head with an octagon cross section in a "Tool Makers" pattern.
Distinct pattern names in the catalog:
Boys
Quarter
Half
Three Quarter
New England Conneciticut
Standard
Tool Makers
Straight
Lumberman's Straight
Slim
Northern
Minnesota
Addirondack
The pictures in the catalog are not labeled as to which pattern they are.
The catalog is here. Handles are on the last page.
Bob
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Hi
Hosting services I am aware of provide "share links" for images that can be pasted in a post. What device are you using? Which hosting services?
Bob
Mac Mini running Ventura 13.6. Firefox. Tried Pinterest and Imgur.
I read through several threads in Service & Support and thought Imgur would work.
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Interesting that they advertise "strictly bastard cut" for those handles ( I believe that would be the same as rift sawn with the growth lines at around 45 degrees). Now people think that vertical growth lines (flat sawn, tangential) are always best but historically that doesn't seem to have ever been the consensus.
I too found the House octagonal handles too thin and not very well made. Got a couple of them in my shop and I'll probably use them for firewood some cold day. That said, the House select straight handles have enough meat on them to allow octagonalization.
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To clarify, is your conclusion from that ad that those handles definitely had the grain orientation illustrated below?
What do you base your interpretation on for Hartwell's term "bastard"?
"radial" versus "bastard" as used in splitting shakes:
What is your reference for "rift sawn"? I have seen what seems to be two interpretations for "rift sawn". One describes grain as you have described it:
Here is a second description:
Confusing, yet both seem to persist. Your version would create less waste, yet the "strictly bastard cut" ones are the most expensive:
All of their hickory handles were "Hand Split":
Bob
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Great job Bob ! Bastard splitting, as I know it, is exactly like your second illustration which shows bastard splitting shakes in the bottom right hand corner. This would create vertical (in line with the axe bit) grain orientation. For axe hafts this would be the most expensive haft staves, hence the "highest quality to produce". This also can produce a haft with no run out, very important for a curved haft, as well as a straight haft. "You get what you pay for" ( or used to) with axe hafts, just like everything else in this life. Any heavy percussion tool with a wood haft performs best with vertical grain.
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I agree with Quinton on hand made hafts. For the last 65 plus years I have made a lot of handmade hafts-axes, adzes, hatchets, hammers, mauls, commanders, cant hooks, etc. To get it right, I always start with a drawknife, then a flat bottom spoke shave to make it octagonal, then finish it with the spoke shave to oval if that is to be the finished profile. If I want a finished octagonal profile I follow the spoke shaved octagonal flats with a card scraper. I guess you could start a oval profile and finish to a oval profile, but, I do not think you will get as good a haft that way.
Those are cool, Bob. Thanks for posting them.
I don’t disagree with Quinton’s (and your) method, Bernie. I’m sure some fine hafts have been made that way. But it is not the only option.
When I start with a split billet, I draw a few sharpie lines and do my rough shaping with a small sharp hatchet, then I go after it with a coarse half round rasp. I often work on a 6-8” section at a time, and shape it to about 90% of final.
Then I switch to a fine rasp and sometimes a curved knife to refine it, using a set of elliptical gauges to shape the areas I want oval. Usually a straight knife and a 4-in-hand to form the tongue. Half- octagoning the flats is usually my last step before the BLO and the actual hang.
My other method, depending on the wood and the profile I’m after, is to lathe-turn a cylindrical cross section, then bandsaw two roughly parallel flats down it leaving a kinda “racetrack” shape. Then it’s rasping and the curved knife and gauging where needed.
There’s a wide spectrum of possible handle shapes and methods available to any person who wishes to use them. Those who say “My way is the only way”, in addition to being incorrect, unnecessarily exclude themselves from other possibilities.
Parker
I don’t disagree with Quinton’s (and your) method, Bernie. I’m sure some fine hafts have been made that way. But it is not the only option.
When I start with a split billet, I draw a few sharpie lines and do my rough shaping with a small sharp hatchet, then I go after it with a coarse half round rasp. I often work on a 6-8” section at a time, and shape it to about 90% of final.
Then I switch to a fine rasp and sometimes a curved knife to refine it, using a set of elliptical gauges to shape the areas I want oval. Usually a straight knife and a 4-in-hand to form the tongue. Half- octagoning the flats is usually my last step before the BLO and the actual hang.
My other method, depending on the wood and the profile I’m after, is to lathe-turn a cylindrical cross section, then bandsaw two roughly parallel flats down it leaving a kinda “racetrack” shape. Then it’s rasping and the curved knife and gauging where needed.
There’s a wide spectrum of possible handle shapes and methods available to any person who wishes to use them. Those who say “My way is the only way”, in addition to being incorrect, unnecessarily exclude themselves from other possibilities.
Parker
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Parker, yes, there are a lot of different ways to do it. The lathe and band saw are a good, quick method if you have the power tools. It also gives a nice, straight rough stick to bring it down to the finished size and profile. But, from there I would still go to the spoke shave and put equal octagonal flats, so that it remained true. It is a very quick finish then to a perfect oval haft. A lot of different ways !
You are correct. It is entirely possible to construct a dwelling without the use of a level or string that is perfectly inhabitable.
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With a big enough square of Thales and a plumb bob (and sufficient slave labor), you could indeed build a pyramid.
I’m not stuck exclusively on hand or power tools, I combine their use all the time. When I wake up with a vision of what I want to construct, I choose the tools and sequence that seems likely to produce my imagined outcome. (I don’t always choose well, sometimes I waste both wood and time. I’ve burned some expensive kindling that way).
Also, some of my haft designs are kinda freeform and non-traditional, so they don’t have to be perfectly oval. And most of my tomahawk eyes are modified teardrop shaped.
When I half-close my hand, it’s not a perfect oval. There’s room in there for imperfection.
Parker
I’m not stuck exclusively on hand or power tools, I combine their use all the time. When I wake up with a vision of what I want to construct, I choose the tools and sequence that seems likely to produce my imagined outcome. (I don’t always choose well, sometimes I waste both wood and time. I’ve burned some expensive kindling that way).
Also, some of my haft designs are kinda freeform and non-traditional, so they don’t have to be perfectly oval. And most of my tomahawk eyes are modified teardrop shaped.
When I half-close my hand, it’s not a perfect oval. There’s room in there for imperfection.
Parker
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Lets talk for a minuet about Pyramids and about the human fixation on plumb, level and square when we build our dwellings. I have spent a long life connected to the idea of plumb, level and square for construction. But, for the last few years now I have been having some strange thoughts I will share with you. It strikes me odd that nothing else that lives on earth gives a rats ass about plumb, level or square, and they get on just fine on planet earth. Nothing else that lives on earth has to wear shoes or clothes. Nothing else cooks it food. And on and on, I am starting to think we are not from this planet. Please forgive the ramblings of a old man who has spent most of his life in the woods.
Bernie
Bernie