Off Topic: Batman Shooting

[KnifeAddictAK]

Our prayers go out to those that were shot or injured in this situation.
Sad news.

Sad news indeed. Will be praying for those affected by that disgusting scum bag.

Agreed. Praying for all of those affected. It's a dark reminder that we need to be prepared and constantly training to protect our loved ones and ourselves. Days seem to be getting darker and I can only imagine the pain and sorrow the families are experiencing.

 

[cricketdave]

That was my first thought as well, until I heard that he was wearing body armor and had tossed some kind of tear gas in the crowd first. He entered through the emergency exit too not through the regular doors. Now with the lights out, gas in the air, screaming and with adrenaline pumping. If you think a civilian with a permit that qualified once a year to carry could hit a moving figure in the head. Well not likely, add in being shot at at the same time and no chance.

Its just a horrible nightmare of a situation and I just feel awful for the families.

 

[SpyderPhreak]

Unfortunately, this pokes at the still quite sensitive scar for those of us here in CO that remember the Columbine shootings so well (I can walk there from my house). Personally, I am VERY angry about this incident (paying members will be able to find a post I made about it earlier), and I know many others here in the community are as well. The guy is a complete coward, and seems to have just flipped and totally lost it. I truely hope he gets the death penalty.

Unfortunately, the theater this happened at does not allow concealed carry permit holders to carry their firearms on the premises. Some people, however, would much rather an aggrevated trespassing charge on their record if use of said concealed firearm became necessary, versus being dead.

Prayers for the families involved.

 

[chiral.grolim]

That was my first thought as well, until I heard that he was wearing body armor and had tossed some kind of tear gas in the crowd first. He entered through the emergency exit too not through the regular doors. Now with the lights out, gas in the air, screaming and with adrenaline pumping. If you think a civilian with a permit that qualified once a year to carry could hit a moving figure in the head. Well not likely, add in being shot at at the same time and no chance.

Its just a horrible nightmare of a situation and I just feel awful for the families.

Speculation:
It sounds like the madman had it planned out fairly well though he'll want to tell us what the ultimate goal of his rampage was and whether he accomplished this. He could easily have come through the front door and into the theater fast-enough to avoid major obstruction, esp. during an action film. Well armed & armoured, he was ready for an encounter with police if not armed civilians (and I think most theaters forbid firearms on the premises). Yet he was apprehended swiftly and with little resistance? And then he suggests during interrogation that he may have explosives at his apartment?

Regarding response of a concealing citizen, I remember hearing that one was at the scene when the congress-woman was shot, the man never had the time to pull his weapon and take aim. Would it have been different here?


Old Irish law would take this man's statement and have him summarily executed as a danger to the society, as one puts down a rabid dog.

Prayers for the families of those slain, joy to those who were not, honor to those who bring the killer to justice, and mercy upon the soul of the killer (though i have no regard for his earthly life... maybe I should.)

 

[Alvaro Candanedo]

OK, folks... Let's stop the speculation. Many dead and injured and all you have is the media wanting to advance their agenda and the Fast & Furious operation???

How about what kind of sick person shoots 71 people, killing 12 in a movie theater???

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You are absolutely right. But the problem is not the type of gun or the magazine capacity. It's the deranged individual that it's the problem, but the usual knee-jerk reaction in the media, (and the politicians) is to demand more "gun control". Which is not going to prevent the next incident from happening.

 

[kdstrick]

That was my first thought as well, until I heard that he was wearing body armor and had tossed some kind of tear gas in the crowd first. He entered through the emergency exit too not through the regular doors. Now with the lights out, gas in the air, screaming and with adrenaline pumping. If you think a civilian with a permit that qualified once a year to carry could hit a moving figure in the head. Well not likely, add in being shot at at the same time and no chance.

Its just a horrible nightmare of a situation and I just feel awful for the families.

Your point is well taken. It would certainly be difficult even if a CHL was there. But even with body armor, a slug to the body will do significant damage and cause a severe contusion and likely break a rib. A slug hitting an arm, leg or anywhere would impair the shooter's ability to fire at will, and would have been helpful. I'd rather take my chances with a CHL than without. Popcorn makes a poor weapon.


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[uyotg]

... the usual knee-jerk reaction in the media...

I don't really understand this. This seems to happen all the time, whether it's gun control, knife control, video game control, soft drink control, etc. And the population (or the people I hang around) usually calls it out and realizes what the media are doing.

Yet it keeps happening over and over and over and over again?

 

[Jaxx]

.

You are absolutely right. But the problem is not the type of gun or the magazine capacity. It's the deranged individual that it's the problem, but the usual knee-jerk reaction in the media, (and the politicians) is to demand more "gun control". Which is not going to prevent the next incident from happening.

I'm having a problem interpreting your post... Are you saying that it's not the deranged individual, but the media...or both? In either case, that may be (my bet is on the deranged individual as the problem, personally), but today is not the time...and this forum is not the place for those discussions on media knee jerk impact. There are other forums on this site for that, and many other discussion forums on the 'Net as well.

 

[Alvaro Candanedo]

I'm having a problem interpreting your post... Are you saying that it's not the deranged individual, but the media...or both? In either case, that may be (my bet is on the deranged individual as the problem, personally), but today is not the time...and this forum is not the place for those discussions on media knee jerk impact. There are other forums on this site for that, and many other discussion forums on the 'Net as well.

Let me try and explain. Why these incidents keep occurring? It's because there is a wide availability of guns in the United States? Or it is because the society in the United States
is losing its values, moral, etc., so that engender individuals capable of perpetrating this kind of actions? (and please, let me assure you that I'm not trying to be offensive or disrespectful, to the people of the United States). But something is happening that is causing actions like this to be more and more frequent, and it would seems that the media focus on the first possibility only. I'd like to leave this here. You are right. This is not the place nor the time. For now, it's time to offer our deepest condolences to all that lost someone that day.

 

[RedbeAR15]

This is a very tragic and heartfelt event. What is even more concerning is that not one of those attending (that I know of) was carrying. Gentlemen pack your piece!

 

[SpyderPhreak]

This is a very tragic and heartfelt event. What is even more concerning is that not one of those attending (that I know of) was carrying. Gentlemen pack your piece!

Unfortunately, that particular business doesn't want you to carry there. Not that some don't. I mentioned that earlier.

Unfortunately, the theater this happened at does not allow concealed carry permit holders to carry their firearms on the premises. Some people, however, would much rather an aggrevated trespassing charge on their record if use of said concealed firearm became necessary, versus being dead.

 

[Sethrotull]

Concealed is concealed. If it isn't against the law I am carrying. That means in this fine state only federal buildings. If a sign is posted and I have to use my weapon you can ask me to leave afterwards, otherwise you aren't going to see it.

I really feel for all the people involved with the horrible ordeal.

 

[azshaman]

Drove by there today on my appointed hospice rounds; didn't realize until I saw the after-action mob of cars, etc. that it was the place of the shooting. (And I drive by Columbine weekly, also seeing patients. Always makes me think.)

My heartfelt smoke up for those affected. Had it not been a work night, it is possible I would have gone there to see the movie. I've been eagerly waiting to see it and that theater is close by.

Live every day and be thankful. You just never know.

Bless you all, brothers and sisters.

 

[monsterdog]

This is so senseless and tragic, clearly a disturbed individual

Where I live they have metal detectors in the movie theatres. I wonder if this would have helped in this situation?

Alvaro: This is not really as big of a problem in the United States as it once was, gun violence is actually on a decline here. But look at the shootings in Norway and the general rise of gun violence in Europe (most countries there have some of the strictest gun laws in the world). Then compare to a country like Switzerland which has very relaxed gun laws, more guns (not hunting guns either, but handguns and government issued automatic weapons) per capita than the US in private hands and insignificant gun violence statistics but a suspicious lack of certain classes of criminals.

There is just no actual statistical support for strict gun control stopping criminals from carrying guns, where as there is some support that says an armed population makes criminals think twice about trying to kill you.

Gun violence like this very tragic incident is really rare but of course get more media exposure because of its sensationalist nature. The more common form mostly centers around criminal environments like gang and drug activity and rarely bubbles up into mainstream American society except in cases where innocent bystanders are in the wrong place at the wrong time. Also the common types of violent crimes are most often not carried out with legally obtained guns, but dodgy imports or stolen weapons. An insane amount of guns get stolen from police forces in the US and later used in crime, so keeping them out of the hands of the private population is no guarantee of short supply either.

 

[kdstrick]

^^^^Good points Monsterdog.

For those of us that are drinking as much as me tonight... Jaxx correctly pointed out that this is not a political forum. Let's try to keep it that way.


Those of us who are sane tend to try to understand actions of those who are not. But we can't. Some people are just nuts. Rationality doesn't apply.

I've had a CHL since they became legal and have been carrying for many years. It is my responsibility to take care of my family. Some establishments do not like the carrying of concealed handguns and place a sign out front. It's a class A misdemeanor to violate this sign. I suppose it's up the the individual to decide whether he or she is willing to 'break the law' in a case like this and take the risk.

I made that decision years ago.


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[PeterPHWS]

Another horrific tragedy which shocks and saddens everyone worldwide ... my thoughts go to Scandanavia and the similarity of the killings there ... then to Dunblane and Hungerford here ... and I think of all the "innocent" people who have lost their lives ... and all I can do is offer condolences and prayers ...

But every time I hear of this sort of madness I ask myself "what should be done"?

The "copycat" nature of these events seems obvious but I cannot see any "fix" there ... the media need to report what happens and we want to know too ... but prevention seems to be beyond "control" ...

The media over here are focusing upon the Police reports that this man was able to buy 4 weapons legally over the last two months and 6 thousands of rounds of ammunition ... plus what appears to be full body armour and Police/S.F. levels of equipment, throat protector, gas mask and ballistic helmet ... the impression being that he was able to arm and protect himself to the same level as the best "counter insurgency" or "special forces" troops/police of all western nations ...

Essentially "a one man army" ... all done legally ... all done in 2 months ... all pointing to the possibility of greater control on weapons and equipment to prevent this ...

The only thing I feel on points like this is that I am sure the Police would not be able to prevent someone like that shooting me if I were there ... and the only thing that will prevent this happening is "me" and my ability to defend and protect myself ...

It is noteable that he selected a "soft target" where legally entitled firearms could not be carried ... shades of University Campus tragedies of the past ... and leaving those there with only "a hope and a prayer" that their time had not come ...

Maybe the ability for someone to become a ticking time bomb and amass an arsenal to go "boom" with so quickly is an issue ... but so are the victims rights to be able to protect themselves ... and fundamentally this is why your country's "Bill of Rights" is so important ... it seems harsh to say this at a time like this ... but the best prevention for these things happening in the future is the ability of armed citizens able to protect themselves and their children ... over here in the UK this "right" no longer exists ... we are playing the political game of "laws" stop "crimes" ... forgetting that criminals don't abide by "laws" ... make sure our "fate" is not yours ... because the only thing citizens have over here is "fate" ... it is solely a game of chance here in the UK whether a person would be a victim or a survivor in a tragedy like this ... in the US you at least have a right to ask for something better :thumbup:

 

[Bigfattyt]

Bummer of a situation.

Mayor Bloomberg is already demanding that both Obama and Romney step up and promise they will disarm citizens.

I went to watch Batman tonight. There are no signs at my local theater about guns. I had a .357, reloads, and a bright flashlight.

Normally I would carry my Glock .40 with three 16 round mags, but the seat arms get in the way of the method of carry I use.

 

[kdstrick]

Outstanding post PeterPHWS

Bummer of a situation.

Mayor Bloomberg is already demanding that both Obama and Romney step up and promise they will disarm citizens.

I thought Nanny Dumberg was busy saving us from our Big-Gulp's. Nice to see he has the time to push his political agenda over this tragedy. :thumbdn:


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[M67]

Another pointless tragedy carried out by someone who will leach off the system and tax payer money for the rest of his life because he will be deemed insane and won't get the death penatly. I hope everyone who was directly affected by this can heal mentally and physically.

And, for some rambling.

Didn't the guy use an AK style rifle, not an AR-15? Least the media didn't say M-16. But, Matt Lauer this morning did sound stupid trying to talk about firearms. Made me cringe.

There was a time in America that people were held responsible for their actions. If someone spilt hot coffee on themselves, it was their fault, not the restaurant's fault, it was common sense that hot coffee was hot. If someone cut themself with a knife, it was thair fault and they didn't blame the knife company. If a person over ate at a fast food place and became fat, it was their fault, not the fast food place's.

But no, now it is everyone's fault besides the person who commited the crime.

People are going to blame the gun companies, again. Why? Is someone stabs a person to death, we blame the person, not the knife company. If someone intentionally drives a SUV into a crowd of people, we blame the driver, not GMC, Ford, Dodge, etc. If someone beats another person with a baseball bat, we don't outlaw baseball. So why would we blame the gun companies for something they didn't do? They supplied a product, and an asshat missused the product and took out their frustration on a group of people just trying to watch a movie.

Did the high capacity magazine ban stop crime in the past? Nope. Has gun control worked throughout history in favor of the people? Nope.

To buy a firearm through an FFL, we have to go trough background checks conducted by NICS and ran by the FBI. Last, middle, and first name. Place of birth. Height, weight, sex, social security number (optional), race (and now ethnicity with the new crappy 4473s), state of residence, and if you're an American citizen, and if you're buying a handgun, long gun, or other (receiver). Plus the list of questions about your past.

If the FBI says you're legal to own the firearm, is it the gun manufacturer's fault? The gun shops? Personally, it's the FBI's fault. But, nope, we can't blame the government. Ever. Because they're always right.

Okay, rambling over.

Head hurts, going to bed, and placing an order for 60 round Surefire mags and 33 round Glock mags for the shop tomorrow......

 

[TewlMakr]

I was going to rant, "But we cant hear ourselves"