Official 2013 Mini Knife KITH!

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Well everyone here is the official start of the 2013 Mini Knife KITH! Back by popular demand, this is the third annual running, and I will be your host again. This thread is where you can post “I’m in, I will make a knife by July 7.” You are not obligated until the JULY 7, 2013 deadline when all will have to post: "My knife is done and in a box ready to ship." I have extended it an extra week this year to the end of the Independance Day weekend.

This KITH is open to all who wish to make a mini knife or similar tool (sword, hawk, etc.) that they feel represents the best of their abilities and efforts. The spirit of this KITH is to encourage makers of all skills and abilities to try their hand at making a mini knife. All others who have made one before should just try and do a good job. We have knives from fairly new makers to master smiths. All are given with the spirit of the KITH, and received just as gladly.

There will be no exceptions to the JULY 7, 2013 cutoff (midnight PST). If the knife isn't finished by then, you won't get a shipping label....no exceptions. (If you need the label early ,that won't be such a problem, but no extensions.)

So, if everyone wants to, let’s get started. Here is the KITH:

2013 MINI KNIFE KITH
This thread is for all those interested in joining the 2013 MINI KNIFE KITH.
While the normal KITH's are for full sized working (or display) knives, this one will be exclusively for miniatures. The purpose is to make a knife and give it away to another knife maker. In return you will get a knife from someone. No one will know who they are making the knife for until after the knife is finished, and no one will know who they will receive a knife from until it arrives in the mail.

SOME BASIC RULES:
The entrant must make, finish, and box the knife by or before JULY 7, 2013. Once finished, the maker can then post on the “2013 MINI KNIFE KITH - I’m Ready,” thread. This thread will be posted starting MAY 1, 2013. Photos of the completed knives can be posted on a separate “KITH Photos" thread if it gets to the size where a separate thread is needed.
By JULY 14, 2013, I will make a shipping label and an envelope for each entrant, from those who have logged on the “I’m Ready” thread. I will have a third party randomly draw the labels and stick them in an envelope. The only examination of the names will be to assure no one is sent their own label. I will then email the name and address to each person in the KITH.

If you are interested in becoming a part of this; post on this thread, “I’m In - I will make a knife by JULY 7, 2013.”
Also, send me an email to, fast14riot@gmail.com . Give me you real name, your forum name, shipping address, contact phone, and email.
At this point, that is all you need to do. I will keep track of those who are interested in participating. I will send out reminders by email to keep us all going. If you don’t finish the knife, or if there is a conflict of schedule, there is no problem this way - the recipients are only drawn from those who have completed their entry by July 7, 2013.

About the knives:
A miniature can be many things, I generally think it should be of 1/4 scale or less, but it is up to you. A 1/4 scale Bowie can easily be 4" long, but a 1/4 scale katana I would think of as a knife. Whatever scale you choose, be sure to pay attention to every detail to make sure it is true to scale. The entry can be any knife or blade smith related item; fixed blade, folder, axe, hawk, sword, etc. The only requirement is that it be made by the submitter and of miniature scale (For simplicity, I will refer to it as “the knife“). The workmanship should be of the best quality that you are able to do. Levels will vary depending on ability and experience, but if you feel your knife will be a suitable gift, then by all means enter. If you are just starting, and still learning the basics, perhaps sitting this year out would be best. The knife should be fully completed, and a sheath or case is completely optional due to the non-usable nature of minis. You should provide all the pertinent information on the knife in a note to the recipient (put this in the box). Outside services, such as Water Jet, Stabilization, and Heat Treatment are fine, but the workmanship on the knife should be yours. The value level of the knife is up to you as most likely these will be made of scraps. It should be something that will be happily received by the new owner, but levels of value will vary, depending on the maker and their circumstances. It is a fun gift exchange, not a swap meet. It is not about what you get back for what you put in. Some knives will be worth more than others, but it is totally up to you. No one is obligated to go beyond their means to enter this KITH.

Let’s all have some fun and make some truly worthy mini knives.


-Xander Holman
 
I will use this thread for keeping tack of who is entered and who I received info from.

Who's in:

Fast14riot - Xander Holman
Timos- - Tim Johnson
Willie71 - Warren Krywko
Zaph1 - Charles Steffes-Claton
Zaph1 - Graham Steffes-Clayton
Coldsteelburns - Paul Loran
Bladsmth - Stacy E. Apelt
SLiuGraphite - Sean Liu

-Xander
 
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I’m In - I will make a knife by JULY 7, 2013
 
I’m In - I will make a knife by JULY 7, 2013. While I am new, my work is getting much better. If the quality isn't up to what is expected, I won't expect anything in return.
 
Thank you Tim, got your info.


All you mini maker veterans, I'm waiting to hear from you!


-Xander
 
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I'm in, as is Graham! Of course, no one here is as excited about it as Graham. He plans to forge his mini! Hehehe, the exuberance of youth.
 
Fantastic Charles! I'll wait for an email and add you and Graham to the list a bit later. I think I'm going to forge mine again this year, maybe try for a hamon. Graham taking care of that ivory on the mini I sent him last year?


-Xander
 
So, hoping that some of the past entrants will stop by and throw their knife in the hat. Stacy, Ryan W., DanCo, Greg, Mike D? Hoping you guys had fun last year and will join us!

Newer makers, don't hesitate to send me an email if you are concerned about "not being good enough," believe me there are some very established makers round here and are extremely talented but have a difficult time making a mini, myself I have a difficult time making full sized knives! There are plenty of people here who have made a few and have run into all sorts of problems along the way, so there will always be an answer to help you through it. Also, don't expect that everything has to be knife making material, look outside the box for materials.


-Xander
 
Hey, I think I'll have a go at it Xander! I've never been in a kith before but always wanted to be :) I was wondering if you could give some more ideas for minis, I know you've mentioned tomahawks and bowies and that they should be 1/4 scale, but when you say a bowie would/could be about 4" , do you mean the overall length of it would be 4"? So are these minis really not meant to be used at all, or can they actually be functional like small dashis are for example? So yea basically I'm lookin for other ideas of styles of blades when it comes to being able to shrink one into a mini, cause I'm drawin a big blank :confused: Also could you point me in the direction of where I might find some examples? Thanks! :) I hope I'll be able to do this thing right! :D Take care!

Paul

My Channel with some of my knives and other related vids... www.youtube.com/Lsubslimed

~Woops! Forgot to add, "I will make a knive by July 7, 2013!!~
 
My suggestion 1/4 scale and smaller is just that, a suggestion. There are no hard rules about what size a mini should be, but yes they generally are display only. This does not mean non-functional though, most do proper heat treat and use standard construction methods. For ideas, just take a look at what your favorite knife is. I have made a 1/5 scale US M3 fighting knife (2011) and last year I made a recurved long fighter of my own design influenced by others. There have been swords, katana, cleavers, bowies, and others. Take a look at the previous years to see what has been done.

In general I get the feeling from most makers that the smaller and more detail you can include the nicer the end result will be.

Here is a simple combo I made a couple months back for fun. 1/5 scale spike hawk and belt knife.

2012-12-03102816.jpg



I will also let other past makers chime in with their opinions on the matter, but whatever you choose to do just be sure to pay attention to scale. Try making a few, if you run into any issues post here and we can help you through it!


-Xander
 
wow, those are beautiful lil gems! Thanks for all the info, I think I got it now :) I just wasnt sure how mini they should be but now I understand. hah I've made a tiny lil nail knife katana a long time ago just for fun (which it was) and wasnt exactly sure if thats the size generally intended, even though you did say about 1/4 scale. Alright cool, so am I allowed to join in on the fun.. or? I'm not sure cause you didnt ask for my info.. Thanks again, I appreciate the clarification and didnt mean to make my question sound like I've never made a knife before lol :foot:

-Paul

My Channel with some of my knives and other related vids... www.youtube.com/Lsubslimed
 
Again, 1/4 scale is roughly where I consider minis to start. I have seen some that were 4 inches long or so, and beautifully done, but really were just a small knife in my opinion. Maybe consider workin in 1/5 scale for a bowie or something, that will put most large-ish knives right about 2 inches long and .025-.030 thick blade, easy to work and handle, easy to convert measurments in your head (double the dimension and move the decimal to the left), and small enough to be admired!


Yes, please send your info to the address above! This is not an invitational event, it is open to all makers.


-Xander
 
I will go to 1/5 for my mini. My full size bowie has an 11.5" blade. 1/4 just turns into a small knife, as you said, not a mini. I'll post some pics later today of the blade cutout, compared to the full size.
 
OK, I guess I'm the Keener here. (I'm really excited about this!!!) I had some time to start working on the knife today, and based on some family issues, the time to play was appreciated.

This is the drawing of the full size knife: I am making one for myself and for my brother as B-day gifts. We are born a few days (2 years) apart, 21 May 1973 for Mike, and 26 May 1971 for myself.

8629874354_47d74554ce_c.jpg


Here is the steel marked out (it is an industrial planer blade from my uncle's cabinet shop. He said it was "high carbon German steel," which I an assuming is a D steel derivative. It rusts, but much more slowly than anything else I have, excepting stainless of course. The size was nearly perfect for this project. If anyone has any ideas what the steel "probably" is, I am looking for suggestions here. I normalized the steel, bringing it to a cherry red on a plate of 1/4" mild steel, and air cooled.

8629874170_f7e58bb2e1_c.jpg


The handle is Padauk and the guard will be brass:

8629874170_f7e58bb2e1_c.jpg


Compared to the full size blade:

8628766023_720d818a6f_c.jpg


8628765561_1566d88726_c.jpg


I am open to suggestions and feedback.
 
Looking good!

Deffinitely try some testing with that HT schedule. Possibly, an old American made file will be a good choice if you're using reclaimed steel. If you need, I can send you a small chunk 1084 in 0.130" thick.

I have two orders to finish up first, then will get going serious on my minis. I still need to figure out what I will be making, likely just going to forge and grind it free hand. I really want to try a hamon in miniature this year, my previous attempts cracked.

Also, a high quality CA glue works well for assembly on the minis, epoxy glue lines can be too big on the minis sometimes. The $6.00 carbide mini drill bits at Harbour Freight work well for mini work. On my belt knife above I used them in my rotary tool to mill out the pocket in the guard (very carefully) and I used electrical wire for the pin stock. I also peined the pin on that one by hand and left it domed, its .030" thick wire. Lots of things can be used for minis.


-X
 
I have about 48" of this steel. I will try a few pieces in different oils and water to see what hardens without breaking. I have several known steels here, but this was perfect in size. I will get the model of the planer and see if I can get the material specs from that. It is definitely a VERY good steel. I have 15n20 that is a bit too thick, but I can stock remove or forge it closer, as well as some 1084 which is double the thickness I need. To be clear, the blades are 24" wide, and were from an industrial power planer that had adjustable knives for radius planing ($20,000.00 tool). This steel is not a "probably a good steel" and has cut miles worth of hardwoods. They are the upgrade from the standard L6 steel. They just couldn't be sharpened anymore as they were getting too small.
 
Its not so much if its a good knife steel, its knowing exactly what steel it is so you can HT it correctly. Now fr minis gettin it close is more than good enough. I usually HT mine with just a plumbers torch and quench in water or canola oil. I may even torch temper the smaller ones just to a straw color, although I might try the Sheffield method with a piece of steel cherry red and just lay the blade on it to temper.

If you can get it to harden and then draw it back just a bit, I see no issues with the steel for a mini.

Have fun and post your progress!


-Xander
 
How about if I do a second blade in 15n20 and decide which one to use after heat treat? I need to figure the planer steel out, as it will be good for straight razors if I can sort out the HT.
 
Sure, I usually have several going at once and just decide which one to use for the KITH.


-X
 
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