OK, I'm not carrying a balisong anymore.

[Planterz]

I learned tonight the hard way that if I need to quickly open a knife, I can't do it with a balisong.

Firstly, let me state that I do not carry a knife (or knives, as the case is) for self defense. I carry them for utility. But I always did feel better knowing that if I needed one for something other than utility, I had that option.

After closing up shop Saturday night at 2am, I took my usual route home, which is a "bike route", which parallels one of the major roads in town (BTW, I ride a bicycle everywhere). I got passed by a white Suburban or Yukon (one of those bigass GM SUVs), a guy with a giant afro got out and closelined me. He then proceded to pummel my face.

I still had my wits about me, so my hand was grasping my Benchmade 42MC balisong in my right front pocket. However, being on the ground, being still attached to my bicycle via clipless pedals/shoes, and being pummeled, I couldn't get it out of my pocket easily. By the time I eventually had the knife in my hand (still latched closed), they retreated to their car and left (driving backwards, so I couldn't get a licence plate--no front plates in AZ). There was another guy, but I honestly don't know if he joined in or not, as I was too busy trying to cover myself and get my knife out.

If I had my MT Scarab with me (and it wasn't broken), I would have had the knife ready and the blade out before they took off. If they had stayed long enough for me to ready my blade, I don't know what would have happened (and for obvious liability reasons, I won't conjecture).

He got my face once or twice pretty squarely, and I've got a nice shiner going. The rest of the hits were on the back of my head (after I turned away to avoid more face-hits), and I've got a couple of throbbing bumps back there. Other than that, I've got very superficial scrapes on my left elbow and knee (the direction I fell after he closelined me), but I get worse bumping into furnature at home.

They didn't take anything. Not my wallet (and yesterday was pay day), not my $150 CD player, not my $1500 bicycle. All they took was my pride, but I've got plenty left.

I don't know these people. I don't know anyone who drives that kind of car. And as far as I know, I don't have any enemies. Unfortunately, apart from the gigantic (and I mean huge) afro, and the car, I couldn't give much of a description. Not even race (they looked "dark", but at night, under these yellow, low-pressure sodium streetlights we have here, everything looks weird). And this was in a very nice neighborhood (near the University).

I've always said that I carry knives for utility, not self-defence. If I were that worried about self-defence, I'd carry a gun.

I might be getting a gun soon.

Not for vengeance or vigilantism. The chances of this happening again are as slim (or as good) as it happening anytime. Which I've found out, is definitely possible. I've always wanted a handgun. Mostly for sport, but also for protection if I felt I needed it. This incident might expidite that. (BTW, anyone got $1300 they can loan me for a HK P7? )

In my 20/20 hindsight, I'm glad they didn't stay long enough for me to use my knife. I may have had a knife, but they might have had something more dangerous (plus, it was at least 2 on 1). On the other hand, I have no qualms about using deadly force in this situation. How do I know what their intentions are? They might have been drunk or on crank. I'm glad they didn't take anything, but if all they wanted was my bike, they could have walked away with it and left me untouched. I'm glad that all that happened was a couple bruises. But you can't predict that sort of thing.

I called the police and filed a report. If they find the people (not likely), I might press charges (not sure though--I take the same route home every night, and they might have friends). Tomarrow I'm going to ring the doorbell of the houses nearby and ask the people if they witnessed anything. Beyond that, I don't know what else there is for me to do (any suggestions?).

In the meantime, I'm going to get off my lazy bum and get my Scarab repaired.

 

[larry1096]

CCW or knife is secondary. The first-hand knowledge that such things can happen anywhere, and any time, will prove priceless.

Glad you're OK.


Larry

 

[Tracer-san]

First thing is situational awareness, then some hand to hand techniques.
After that, gun and knife will be just tools for the job.

I don't know if you're familiarized with guns, but practise a LOT with your carry piece (and break it in) and always follow the basic safety rules.

Glad you're ok too



By the way... latched bali.. pfffffttt....

 

[anthony cheeseboro]

Assuming that you are telling the whole story (I'm not calling you a liar, I just don't know you and I'm only getting one side) it seems like you were the victim of mistaken identity. Frankly, you came out of this about as well as you could have. It would have helped your pride to have got your balisong into one of those guys but then you might have had to deal with them escalating the attack or you would have had to deal with the police and DA if you had killed or severely wounded one of your attackers. It is unfortunate, but the best outcome is not always the most satisfactory outcome.

 

[Patryn]

I call things such as these "random acts of a$$holeness". Many times there is not reason for such things.

Years back, my friend and I were jumped by 6 people, all 4-5 years older than ourselves at that time, for "looking at them wrong" when we walked out of a store. They were massed near the door, we looked at them as we squeezed by as to not knock them out of the way, but that was "wrong" according to them. No real reason, just wanted to be a-holes. We ID'd 4 of them from police photo books, but since we couldn't pick them all out, nothing was done.

 

[Planterz]

Assuming that you are telling the whole story (I'm not calling you a liar, I just don't know you and I'm only getting one side) it seems like you were the victim of mistaken identity.

What's the other side of the story?

"We jumped out of the car and jumped this random guy on a bike for no reason other than to get our jollies".

How do you mistake the identity of a stranger?

Jackass.

 

[ZENGHOST]

First of all, it's fortunate that you weren't hurt worse.

I learned tonight the hard way that if I need to quickly open a knife, I can't do it with a balisong....I still had my wits about me, so my hand was grasping my Benchmade 42MC balisong in my right front pocket. However, being on the ground, being still attached to my bicycle via clipless pedals/shoes, and being pummeled, I couldn't get it out of my pocket easily. By the time I eventually had the knife in my hand (still latched closed), they retreated to their car and left...

Secondly, how is the Scarab carried (I don't have one)? Is it clipped to your pocket as well? Being a 'songer, I may be a little biased here, but I'm not sure I understand how the Scarab would've helped you in this specific situation as you described since you couldn't retrieve the knife from your pocket until they had already gone. Assuming that the Scarab would've been clipped to your pocket in the same way that the bali was, I don't see it being easier to retrieve than the bali. I can understand if you had been able to retrieve the bali and not able to open it quickly since you were on the ground and probably wouldn't have ample room to open it (as opposed to pushing the button on the Scarab), or if it didn't have a clip and was sitting at the bottom of your pocket, but not being able to retrieve it fast enough doesn't mean that a faster opening would've helped.

Also, in a situation like this, where you were taken by surprise and the guy is already on top of you and hitting you, without knowing anything about gun techniques or anything, I would think that it'd be dangerous to draw the gun in a situation like that. I'm curious to hear from the gun people about this type close-quarter situation.

 

[DEA]

i doubt it'll be easy to deploy any knife that's inside your front pocket, especially when you're on the ground being pummeled
i carry my speedsafe either clipped to the front right pocket or the rear, and i can only imagine how bad it'll be if i get blindsided

i think the only thing that'll help here is more situational awareness
we can't be relying on our reflexes to deploy in an emergency all the time
keep an eye out for these buggers when riding?

glad to hear there's nothing permanently broken

 

[anthony cheeseboro]

Planterz, calling me names is not a good way of proving your point. I'm sorry I responded at all to your post. Have a good and safe life.

 

[DrClckWrk]

Post removed. Email for explanation.

 

[Alvin Hom]

but they might have had something more dangerous (plus, it was at least 2 on 1).

Of course they did. They had an SUV, a 6,000 lb weapon. Lots of people forget that a vehicle can be used against them....with deadly efficiency.

 

[Alvin Hom]

Planterz, calling me names is not a good way of proving your point. I'm sorry I responded at all to your post. Have a good and safe life.

I'm not taking any sides here. But I wanted to say that was one of the most mature rebuttals I've ever read on a forum.

 

[Ricardo Magnificent]

Ditto the comments about situational awareness. That guy should have been huffing and puffing by the time he caught you. Glad you're o.k. A knife is deadly force in the eyes of the law... you will have to justify it's use to at least a police officer and possibly a jury. I'm not saying don't ever use it, just be ready. As with using a firearm, the fight on the street is only the first battle. Their size and numbers play into the equation. Maybe a less than lethal option in addition to an accessable knife ... o.c. spray or a large flashlight would give you some steps on the force continuum. Good luck!
(My first post!)
Ricardo The Magnificentundefined

 

[Lone Hunter]

My bet is he doesn't like to share the road with bike riders.

All I can say is as soon as he stopped along the road,your only choice was a 180.

 

[Piney]

I carry a knife, a big knife and know how to use it. If I did some one in with it I could go to jail. I also have a gun. If I did some one in with it I could go to jail. I would not hesitate to shoot some one under those circumstances. I would rather go to trial than be dead.

 

[Manifest]

I'm glad you got out of that mess alive. I think even if you had a different knife on you, it wouldn't have done you any good. For instance, what if you were able to pull out your knife and use it? You said your feet were attached to the pedals and you were down on the ground. They could have easily run you over with their SUV. The most important thing is that you got out alive.

Stay safe.

 

[Planterz]

Secondly, how is the Scarab carried (I don't have one)? Is it clipped to your pocket as well? Being a 'songer, I may be a little biased here, but I'm not sure I understand how the Scarab would've helped you in this specific situation as you described since you couldn't retrieve the knife from your pocket until they had already gone. Assuming that the Scarab would've been clipped to your pocket in the same way that the bali was, I don't see it being easier to retrieve than the bali. I can understand if you had been able to retrieve the bali and not able to open it quickly since you were on the ground and probably wouldn't have ample room to open it (as opposed to pushing the button on the Scarab), or if it didn't have a clip and was sitting at the bottom of your pocket, but not being able to retrieve it fast enough doesn't mean that a faster opening would've helped.

The 42 is considerably longer than the Scarab, so if I'm in any position other than standing (or lying) straight, it's more difficult to get out of the pocket. The Scarab's clip is much larger and allows smoother draw from the pocket. Plus, I have a lanyard on the Scarab so instead of digging in the pocket, I could have just yanked it right out. I can pull my Scarab and open it in about 1/10th the time it takes me to pull the 42 out and perform a basic horizontal (longer if I want to latch it).

Planterz, calling me names is not a good way of proving your point. I'm sorry I responded at all to your post. Have a good and safe life.

I found your comment rather insensitive and judgemental. Claiming that there's "another side to the story" questions my honesty, and saying "I'm not calling you a liar" doesn't absolve you of that. I understand that you indeed do not "know me", but how about you give me the benifit of the doubt and don't blindly lay judgement on me, mmm k? I agree that calling you names isn't the most mature response I could have made, but that still doesn't make you any less of a jackass. I do appreciate your concern though.

 

[anthony cheeseboro]

I didn't judge you. I said I didn't know you. I also said you may have been a victim of mistaken identity. You might have had the misfortune of looking like someone with whom they had a dispute. There are a lot of people dead in their graves because they were mistaken for someone. I remember in the 1990's when it was pretty common in some neighborhoods for young men to be shot because they wore the wrong colors. In a place like South Central LA, every young man shot was not a gang member. Some looked like the wrong guy, were in the wrong place at the wrong time, or wore the wrong color clothes or hat. I wish I had not used the word liar because that does sound negative. At the same time, you chose to tell your story in a public forum, you might have expected that every response may not have been 100% reaffirming.

 

[Planterz]

I'm glad you got out of that mess alive. I think even if you had a different knife on you, it wouldn't have done you any good. For instance, what if you were able to pull out your knife and use it? You said your feet were attached to the pedals and you were down on the ground. They could have easily run you over with their SUV. The most important thing is that you got out alive.

Stay safe.

I'm not sure when I did, but at some point I did clip out. It's insinct for me to unclip my left foot whenever I stop, so I might have done that right from the start. No idea when I unclipped my right foot, but by the time I had my bali in hand, I was about ready to stand up (and right then they took off).

Situational awareness probably would have helped me, but even if I were totally alert (and not getting off of a 9 hour shift at 2am), I'm not sure I could have avoided the situation. When I saw the guy getting out of his car, I didn't think anything of it (I guess I assumed he lived at the house he parked across). It was only about 1 or 2 seconds after that he came at me, and probably couldn't have dodged him. Even if I had stopped short (and since at the time I didn't perceive any threat), he (they) could have easily charged me. If I bolted, their car can go much faster than I can. Plus, evading them might have made them angrier, so who knows? Interestingly, I was pretty calm throughout the whole thing. I get bigger fight-or-flight jumps in the heart and adrenaline rushes from crazy motorists or obscene prank phone calls at work. I get jumped...nothing. Very strange.

I don't know whether or not a gun would have helped me this time. I can only assume that it would have taken the same amount of time to draw a pistol as it took to draw the knife. So in this particular situation, if I had fired, I would have been shooting the guy in the back (a big no-no). Had they stuck around longer though...

Pepper spray wouldn't have been of any use. A baton-like blunt object wouldn't have helped either (plus, it'd be a PITA to carry while biking). I don't know that having a readied knife would have helped (or possibly made the situation worse), but that's what I had, and that's what I instinctively went for. Maybe I should look into a kydex sheath of some sort (IWB--I don't want to advertize that I carry a knife).

And I don't want this to turn into another "Are Autos Really Necessary" arguement (there's plenty of those already), but I can say with 100% honesty that in this situation, which transpired in no more than 10-12 seconds time, having a switchblade over a manual opener (of any sort, no just a balisong, but a thumb-hole or stud opener) would have given me a readied knife in considerably less time. No more theory here, I know first hand.

Thank you everybody for your concern and support.

 

[chris in mo]

My thoughts are that a gun would have not likely been of much use. ( and I am a gun gun for the record!) The most common place to carry a gun is on the hip and had that been the case you would have been laying on it. A gun takes a little time to bring into play and in a ground scuffle such as yours it can be hard to get out and use before your attacker can grab the gun. Then you are facing the possability of him disarming you.

From reading the event a couple of times my recomendation would be a neck knife. It would be easier to get a hold of and into action. If an attacker grabs your knife there is the distinct posability of them injuring themselves on the blade during the grab. The neck knife is not fool proof but in the situation described I think it would have been the best option. Not a folder in a neck sheath either a small fixed blade neck knife.