Okay, Here Goes My Report On Talonite.

[tom mayo]

more two cents worth....440V-first question, whos heat treating the knives that i am reading the complaints about...i have two very experienced hunting friends...very experienced and reliable, who have both cleaned over 35 animals with a 440v blade without sharpening....420V is much tougher, but i have not been using it long enough to get the feedback i have on 440V..it is MUCH tougher...i think with proper heat treat it is the steel that will rise to the top in the next few years..we will see...but heat treat is JUST as important as steel selection. Talonite...I have been using stellite on and off for 16 years...talonite is great stuff...and im glad rob could buy a new mercedes with the money i have been sending him...more power to him...it stays sharp for a long time...it is relatively soft-it wont take a hair popping edge and keep it...but IT WONT RUST..i dont see very many people talking about this and it is one of the best reasons to use it as a hunting knife material.....it holds an edge for a very long time....it is truly a super alloy. I am buying as much of it as i can afford. It is part of the wave of the future in knife making.

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com

 

[elim]

ok it seems that 420v will hold an edge about as good as talonite.does everyone agree? i've noticed that different steels like to cut better on some materials but not on others.like my dozier in d-2 it likes to cut meat and hide better that my 420v.i don't know if it justs takes more of an aggressive edge than the 420v or if it is the way i am sharpening it.i have read it said that talonite is much slicker than most steels .how is this?how is talonite on every day materials like plastic, apples, meat ect?i know that there are trade off's with every steel (or alloy)what are the trade off's with talonite?aside from the price.will cryo treating help talonite in any way? thanks elim

 

[Will Fennell]

Elim,
I understand you are trying to get a comparison of Talonite to various high performance blade steels, but the problemm you are running into is , TALONITE is not steel. Its not gonna act like steel in a lotta ways, therefore making comparisons difficult.
I have used TALONITE on wild hogs and deer. I have used it offshore fishing cleaning Tuna, Dolphin, Wahoo, etc. I have cut MILES of cardboard. I love the stuff. I'll just try to list some observations, pros & cons.

I've used the TALONITE knives I have in the field mainly as a skinning knife,....I have yet to dull one skinning, butchering and boning game. Probally the best was 5 wild hogs in one weekend, skinned, butchered and mostly boned out. Still cutting meat very aggressivley at the end, I simply ran out of stuff to cut up. Sometime after hte first hog, the knife lost that grabby aggressive STEEL feeling edge, but it still cut like lightning. Thats the difference, ...just becuase it doesn't FEEL like a sharp STEEL edge, doesn't mean its still not cutting like a sharp knife.

I never set one Talonite knife aside, and used it for nothing but skinning game, maybe I'll do that next season, and see how many deer and hogs its will do without resharpening. You have to remember, people hunt different ways, my skinning knife may also get used for a multitude of additional tasks, from cooking, building fires, trimming limbs around the stand, etc, etc.

But I never had one of my TALONITE kvives go dull from skinning game. Period.

But folks are right, it doesn't have that grabby, wirey edge as long as some steels I've used. A2 and D2 have been the best at that in my experience. But TALONITE has still out cut them, in my experience.

When you look at a used , but still sharp TALONITE edge under 20x magnification, you see that the edge is still in perfect shape, not rolled, or dented, or chipped, but its polished and smooth looking. Htas why it doesn't have that 'grabby' feel that everybody talks about. And it keeps this polished, cutting edge a long time. Actually, I have sharpened mine more out of boredom thatn anything else. Which brings me to one of my favorite properties of TALONITE. How it resharpens.

Its a breeze to resharpen. I've never had anything that resharpens this easy. Notice I said resharpen, not puttin the initial edge on, which can be fairly difficult. But resharpening is easier than any steel I have worked with, just a couple of passes on hte white sticks of a Sharpemaker 204, or a couple of passes on a fine stone, and its ready to go. Literally, just 3-4 good passes, thats it, in my experience.

Folks talk about impact resistance problems, well, with the cost of TALONITE, I've never considered it a candidate for a BIG knife. In my skinning knives, I've no had any problems, and boning out deer, usually is a good test if a knife will chip easily. No chips.

Cost is the only big problem I've found, at roughly 16 times the cost of ATS-34, its gonna be hard for someone to make a cheap knife.

I've been rambling here, and just realized what time it is, ....I've gotta run. I'll come back later and try to make a more comprehensive post out of this. Bottom line, I love TALONITE, but its hard to compare to steel, becuase its not steel.

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery

 

[tom mayo]

yeah....what will said!!!!!!

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com

 

[Jerry Hossom]

Will, that was the most useful and lucid evaluation of knife performance I've yet read. Thanks. I'm curious though, at what angle do you sharpen the Talonite?

------------------
Jerry Hossom
knifemaker
www.hossom.com

 

[Gene]

Sorry to take so long replying. Your replies are all very interesting.
I know all about coarse edges and I agree with most of the comments concerning them. I actually DO carry secondary knives with either a sharp coarse edge or they are serrated. It's just that I like my primary knife to "touch cut" rather than "saw cut". I realize that it takes more touching up to keep that way. But if I have put a properly beveled edge on it in my initial sharpening, I can stroppe it razor sharp in no time with a simple tablet back. In fact I keep a piece with me in my wallet for just this purpose.
My opening comments for this thread were that, (and most of you agree), Talonite holds this "hair scaring", razor sharp edge no longer than any other steel, carbon or otherwise. I do agree that it will hold a "hair scraping" or sharp edge a very long time and cuts and cuts.
IMHO, I DISAGREE that Talonite feels "different", (when it is razor sharp or for that matter sharp), than steel. I can immediately tell like any other knife blade when it is sharp with a quick scrape of my thumb. Maybe it's years of experience sharpening and using knives but again it's just my opinion.
I agree with Tom that the stuff is expensive, exorbitantly so, but to me the big trade off in rust resistance and other advantages, eases the cost somewhat.

Hello Cliff, my "give me all the facts" bud. I placed the knife on a stack of boxes and had my back turned when it dropped to the floor. I heard it bounce before coming to a rest but I cannot say where it took the initial force or even the secondary force, (from the bounce). All I know is after close examination there was not a chip or a MARK anywhere.
Yes, I AM saying that Talonite holds a razor edge NO better than 1095, 0-1, etc., etc... BUT it DOES stay what I call "sawing" or "scraping" sharp FAR longer and it's rust resistance is unparalled. Again, this from over six months of DAILY use and I mean HARD use.
I love my Cetan and it's flat ground blade, (I REALLY love flat grinds), but I think my next Talonite blade will be even a THINNER flat grind. The Cetan is a good compromise of strength and utility, (GOOD JOB ROB!), but to me a thinner, (just slightly), blade would really be handy. A thinner grind would be even better for food preparation and use around camp and for skinning. Besides that's the biggest deal about this stuff; it's stain and rust resistance.
Also a BIG, THICK, Talonite chopper IS also on my "wish list", (grin).

 

[dogboye]

Originally posted by tom mayo:
more two cents worth....440V-first question, whos heat treating the knives that i am reading the complaints about...<snip a lot>...i think with proper heat treat it is the steel that will rise to the top in the next few years..we will see...but heat treat is JUST as important as steel selection.

Hmmmm... I think that I would probably be the person that you're talking about above, Tom. Or at least one of them. I have two 440V knives, both Spyderco's. Now, before I go any further, let me state that I think that Spyderco is at least one of the best, if not the best, production knife company, bar none. Yeah, I've had good Benchmades and Bucks, too. I don't have much experience with any others yet, certainly not enough to form an opinion. ANYWAY...
My first experience with 440V was the BladeForums Native. At first, it seemed to, well, lose its shaving sharpness really quickly, just gut feel. Then, I had the infamous encounter with the staple, after which I started... whining?... about the 440V. Enough that Sal wanted me to send it back, thinking that maybe the heat treat was off. So I did. The company recommends, or shoots for 55-57 Rc for 440V. Mine came in at 55.5. So, I assumed that it was just a REALLY bad staple.
Next I bought the Military. The test for it came when I was going through the recycling pile after Christmas, cutting up the cardboard to go into the bin. A Nimravus Cub in M2 had chewed through a comparable pile just after Thanksgiving, and finished up the task still able to ... well, scrape. The Military, after its turn at the task, ended up with an edge like a butterknife. Literally. I could run my thumb along the edge, with slight pressure behind it, and it would not cut through the first layer of skin. This wasn't feel; it was <u>dull.</u>
Well, this Friday, I did the next round of recycling, and the next round of testing. This time, it was the REKAT UNK in 1095. I figured this would be just a fun time, since I expected the 1095 to last about half the pile. Well, when I finished the entire pile, which was about half the boxes that the Cub or Mil had gone through, it was still shaving sharp. Yeah, fewer boxes, but gut feel was that it was holding its edge pretty good in comparison to the M2 and 440V.
So what does all this mean? Not much, since this is a thread on Talonite, and I don't have any, yet (only about 14 more months, right Rob?). But you asked about the 440V. That's my experience with it, and it hasn't been good. In fact, I have probably been the most disappointed in 440V that I have in any knife material that I have ever encountered. Yeah, it might work GREAT for hogs, deer, elk, 'gator; the biggest game I've worked with is rabbit, and the 420HC, 425HC, or 425M (whatever) that Buck used worked great for that. But for the everyday plastic, CARDBOARD, wood whittling, etc., 440V just doesn't work for me. Should the 440V be harder than 55-57? Or is the ... method .. that Spyderco goes through just off? I couldn't say. But, I <u>can</u> say that I would QUICKLY pick ATS-34, ATS-55, or M2 over 440V from now on.
So, still in search of the ultimate blade material, I'm now in search or (waiting for) Talonite.

------------------
"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 02-06-2000).]

 

[tom mayo]

guess i should reply....after making knives for 18 years i am extremely impressed with 440V and have a list of satisfied hunting knife customers to prove it...my heat treating is done by paul bos...small batches of knives very carefully controlled environment, cautiously cryod and tempered.. big companies h/t knives in big batches.. i am NOT badmouthing anyone...just stating the facts...the bigger the oven, the harder to keep the heat even...i could talk about this forever, but it is obvious we have two completely different experiences with the same material....so something must be different...right???? or not??? sincerely. tom...by the way....a shameless plug for my site....i have talonite knives finished and ready for sale...

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com




[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 02-06-2000).]

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Will :

I understand you are trying to get a comparison of Talonite to various high performance blade steels, but the problemm you are running into is , TALONITE is not steel. Its not gonna act like steel in a lotta ways, therefore making comparisons difficult.

Actually that would make comparing them easier as the more distinct the differences in performance the greater your tolerances for error can be.

But folks are right, it doesn't have that grabby, wirey edge as long as some steels I've used. A2 and D2 have been the best at that in my experience. But TALONITE has still out cut them, in my experience.

First off, if you are leaving a wire edge on a steel there is no wonder Talonite is out performing it. Very high polished edges on tempered tool steels are very durable, they are actually less prone to fracture or deformation than coarsely ground edges. Second what does "out cut them" mean?

just a couple of passes on hte white sticks of a Sharpemaker 204, or a couple of passes on a fine stone, and its ready to go. Literally, just 3-4 good passes, thats it, in my experience.

And how does this compare to your experience with D2 and A2 for example? Unless I break a piece out of my steel blades that is how I sharpen them (I don't use a Sharpmaker, just a ceramic rod, same thing though).

When you look at a used , but still sharp TALONITE edge under 20x magnification, you see that the edge is still in perfect shape, not rolled, or dented, or chipped

Does this imply that D2 and A2 (or whatever) will have rolled , dented or chipped under similar stress? This makes little sense to me because the cobalt matrix is not stronger or tougher than the iron one in a good blade steel. However since Talonite has a very low frictional surface, you may transfer less force to the edge of the blade than a steel knife.

Gene :

I can immediately tell like any other knife blade when it is sharp with a quick scrape of my thumb

Which is not surprising as in order for an edge to do this is has to be thin and aligned. If it is not either one of these things its cutting ability will be significantly reduced. You can get an edge to do this though and it can still be rather blunt which is kind of interesting, basically the carbides are worn but the matrix is well formed. You need to do a parallel stroke to test for this, it should be a fairly light one.

Talonite holds a razor edge NO better than 1095, 0-1, etc., etc... BUT it DOES stay what I call "sawing" or "scraping" sharp FAR longer

I think I can understand this in relation to simple steels like 1095 and O1, neither have high wear resistance. But does this hold as compared to the very high wear resistant steels like D2, M2 and the next step up, CPM-420 and such?

Thanks for the additional info on the box drop.

I will note one thing. A lot of the people saying that Talonite is a good cutter, holds its edge for a long time etc., are commenting on Rob Simonich's blades. It needs to be considered that Rob does grind high performance edges (no first hand experience, but from what I have read this seems very likely). If you were to compare one of his Talonite blades against a steel blade that had a low performance geometry you could get a very skewed comparison.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-07-2000).]

 

[Gene]

Cliff,
Thanks for your comments. I agree with you on Simonich Talonite blades. He has the edge geometry DOWN!
I am going to do some edge comparisons with a 420V utility/hunter I've had for a short time and also pull out my Dozier D-2 "Elk Hunter". I CAN tell you Talonite is far superior to A-2 which I have extensive experience with while using a Chris Reeve "Aviator" as an everyday carry in years past. I do agree A-2 makes a wonderful "chopper", but as Tom says EVERYTHING is in the heat-treat.
Also Cliff, what method do you use for testing extreme sharpness on your blades? I have several methods, (including a "Razor Edge" sharpness tester), but recently came across an interesting method that works well for me seeing that I love polished extremely sharp edges.
I use "Saran" or regular kitchen plastic wrap. Hold a piece taut from the roll or by other means and if your blade separates it EASILY with no drag it is SHARP. If it drags somewhat or just bunches the wrap up, you have a ways to go.

Tom,
I agree with your assessment on 440V. I have found it to be extremely good at holding a very sharp edge for a LONG time. My experience comes from using two 440V Spyderco Militarys, one plain edged and one serrated. Both have been carried and used extensively. I have heard complaints about 440's edge retention in customs and Spyderco models but my experience has been very positive. Maybe Spyderco got the heat-treat just right on my examples. I really like these and again, they have been used extensively and to be honest are still extremely sharp and have found no need so far to sharpen them.
Also Tom I really like your Website. I just MAY have to try one of YOUR Talonites.

 

[tom mayo]

great...have about $800 worth on its way (I hope-have heard its in the mail before)-but now that rob is making payments on that mercedes maybe he will be more prompt...lol. One thing about production knives and heat treat....those large batches are a lot harder to carefully monitor that the small ones.....harv mcburnette once told me (ive posted this before) that in a large commercial oven like the bigger cutlery firms use....the middle gets too hot, the outside is not hot enough, and there is a magic circle right in the middle that is just right....I AM NOT SAYING that this is true of every cutlery firm..just relaying a conversation by a now departed knifemaking giant....so the outside ones are too soft, the inside ones are too hard, and there are a bunch that are just right....alohja.

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Gene, after I get a blade polished so that it will push shave evenly that is about as good as I can do in that respect. I can get it sharper using a guide like the edge pro (the edge will catch hairs when raised off the skin), but I usually just go with what I can get by hand. Anyway, I then cut some cord and rubber to make sure the edge is not worn. it is not enough that the knife should be able to make the cuts, the blade should go through easily with no slipping using light force.

-Cliff

 

[Will Fennell]

Cliff,

What I mean about 'being hard to compare TALONITE and STEEL' is that since we have more experience with steel than TALONITE, we tend to try to evaulate TALONITE in 'steel terms'. I hand a TALONITE blade to folks all the time, and they don't think its sharp....until the start cutting things. This is becuase it doesn't feel like a sharp steel blade feels. But they cut, and cut, and cut.

In your next question, your right, I kinda mis-spoke. Wirey was not the best description. I am VERY familar with polished edges, as they are my prefered 'edge style'. As a mater of fact, a thin polished edge of A2 on a flat ground blade is probally my favorite all around edge/steel/grind combonation for an all around utility blade[as long as I'm not around alot of water].

Unless I can get TALONITE. My field experience so far shows me that a TALONITE blade and a A2 blade of similar geometry, the TALONITE blade will cut longer. I have made no controlled testing yet because it would really require 2 indentical knives, with different blade materials, to really mean much[IMHO], and I'm not in that position , yet. I did have a BG42 bladed CETAN from Rob, and it was close to the same geometry. The TALONITE blade cut 'much' longer than the BG42 blade...i.e., the BG42 blade became functionally unusable in a fraction of the time that it took the TALONITE blade.

Once again, sorry if its not specific enough, just my field observations.

On sharpening, the reason I mentioned the Spyderco #204 'white sticks' IS because they are a know quanity. It takes literally 3-4 passes on this sharpening system to restore the TALONITE blades fine sharpness. While the principle may be the same, not all ceramic 'sticks' have the same 'grit'. The Spyderco 'white' sticks are very 'fine' and really just polish most steel blades.

Last question, no, not implying anything about A2 or D2. Try ing to say that when you look at a TALONITE blade that is used and 'feels' somewhat dull[thats the part I wasn't clear enough on] under magnification, its very apparant that it is still quite sharp. Its just a very smooth and slick, polished edge.......that is why it doesn't have that familiar 'grabby sharp steel blade' feel.

Again in summation, I like TALONITE because...

It holds a edge while doing skinning and utility chores[things that i use a 3-4.5" blade for] longer than anything I have ever used.


It is very easy to resharpen,..much more so than any of the 'high performance steels' that I have tried.

[the above qualities of course taking into account similar blade geometries]

And TALONITE doesn't rust.

Downside,

Talonite is VERY expensive.

Also, it is very hard to explain to people sometimes why you like it soooo much

Try it, I believe you'll like it.

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Will :

What I mean about 'being hard to compare TALONITE and STEEL' is that since we have more experience with steel than TALONITE, we tend to try to evaulate TALONITE in 'steel terms'.

Why would you want to do that? It is a blade, evaluate it as such regardless of what it is made out of. A knife made to serve a particular purpose should be judged on its ability to do that independent of what it is made out of.

the BG42 blade became functionally unusable in a fraction of the time that it took the TALONITE blade.

That is interesting especially considering that BG-42 is one of the higer end steels. Spyderco has stated that Talonite and BG-42 achieved similar ratings in regards to edge retention, but never said if those were limits or just standards.

I have made no controlled testing yet because it would really require 2 indentical knives, with different blade materials, to really mean much

The only way that they variables can skew the results is if you don't understand the influence they have. You can determine this from other work and thus adjust the comparison. As a simple example, if I want to determine the height of a woman wearing high heels I estimate her height and subtract off my estimate of her elevation because of the footware. I would not simply give up in defeat unless she refused to take off her shoes. Blade comparisons are more difficult but the procedure is the same.

While the principle may be the same, not all ceramic 'sticks' have the same 'grit'. The Spyderco 'white' sticks are very 'fine' and really just polish most steel blades.

The grit on the ceramic rod I use is pretty much the same as on the Sharpmaker I had (old model) as they produce the same finish. Regardless it is the effort to produce the finish that is important which is what I was commenting on.

And TALONITE doesn't rust.

If it does it takes much longer than Stainless blade steels. I have just finished doing salt water soaks which destroyed the edges on a VG-10, ATS-34 and D2 blade. The Talonite one was not effected.

Try it, I believe you'll like it.

I have one (MEUK from Allen Blade) which I have been using for the past week. I have one coming in similar geometry in 52100 to serve as a baseline. In the meantime I am using the VG-10 F1 as I consider that to be a very strong performer overall.

Gene :

I use "Saran" or regular kitchen plastic wrap. Hold a piece taut from the roll or by other means and if your blade separates it EASILY with no drag it is SHARP. If it drags somewhat or just bunches the wrap up, you have a ways to go.

Gene can the blade slip at all on the initial cut or must it be able to push almost right through with no slicing motion?

-Cliff



[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-11-2000).]

 

[Will Fennell]

Cliff,
Understand that I stated in my earlier post, these are my experiences with TALONITE, not structured, controlled test.

And the reason I keep bringing up the fact that TALONITE is different than steel, is that alot of folks ask about TALONITE in and want comparisons, but the define performance or experiences in 'steel terms'. This is only natural. But I believe that it can be misleading because TALONITE doesn't act like steel does in some ways. When TALONITE feels dull, in realtion to our experience with most steel blades, it keeps cutting. For a long time.

I believe that this may have some bearing on SOME peoples evaulation, but of course not all. If a test was designed to test the lenght of time that a given material held a razor like, grabby edge, that push cut cigarette paper, TALONITE probally would be a loser compared to BG42. But if you tested how long a given blade would draw cut cardboard without tearing, I 'believe' that TALONITE would go longer than the BG42 blade.

A blade that will push cut cigarette paper feels like its very sharp,....a steel blade that will cleanly draw cut/slice cardboard usually feels pretty sharp. TALONITE will cleanly cut cardboard longer than anything I've ever tried,....even when it feels, by comparison to steel, dull.

Of course two different blade materials can be tested against performance parameters. The problem is that alot of folks want to define these parameters around their 'steel experiences'. I hope to see some results from side by side, similar blade geometry, TALONITE v. high performance steels. I believe that these test could confirm what alot of TALONITE users have experienced.

I'm starting to ramble a bit again, sorry 'bout that. It is a VERY interesting subject though. Keep looking for the answers.

------------------
Stay Sharp!
Will Fennell
Camillus Cutlery

 

[Rob Simonich]

First off, I have very little time to dedicate to visiting the forums these days, I am BEHIND on my delivery schedules and some customers are a little dissapointed in that, with good reason!

This is a great discussion, but I have one quick thing to add. On the BG-42/Talonite subject, if I remember correctly Sal told me when spyderco does thier test they stop when the shaving edge or burr is gone. (Correct me if I am wrong Sal) This backs up what Will says in the above post on the cigarette paper cardboard thing. Butch Winter also said it smoked everything he had tried in cardboard cutting.

Well, the wife is chaining me back up to the grinder, I will check in later!

------------------
www.simonichknives.com

[This message has been edited by Rob Simonich (edited 02-11-2000).]

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Rob, what Spyderco does is measure the amount of force it takes to make a cut and they define a blade as blunt when the force exceeds some standard. So yes it is quite likely that Talonite could achieve a low rating if this standard was high like 10% more than the starting force. It would be rather interesting to see a long term test down to say double the force and see if the long term blunting was significantly different from the initial. If I notice a sharp difference in the transition points myself I will examine this in some detail.

Will, you do bring up a number of good points mainly that most if not all tests for sharpeness can fail given certain aspects and the blade still cut well on various materials. The opposite is also true which is even worse and can lead to some skewed impressions.

I will repeat though, there is no inherent difficulty in comparing a Talonite to a steel blade simply because the materials are different. We have progressed many times from bone / fint / bronze to high performance steels. The same procedure that allowed these transitions can be used to do a Talonite / steel one. What is important is that the scope of work be large enough to address the strong and weak performance of both materials so a nonbiased conclusion be made.

-Cliff

 

[bald1]

WOW

!!! I'm late coming to this great thread.

Gene, glad to hear you're still loving that Cetan. Will and Rob have done a bangup job of trying to describe the subtlties of the Talonite edge. If I were pressed to synopsize I'd say we're all talking about a practical cutting edge. It's long been known that a hair popping razor edge may not be as suitable for some tasks as a coarser grabby edge (read Joe Talmadge's commentaries on this issue when he talks about different ways to sharpen a blade for effect). That said, the type of edge you have indicated you prefer is the razor. My contention has always been that the little buggers made of Talonite just keep cutting and cutting and cutting.....

! And they do, albeit the feeling while making the cuts is different. I frankly can't endorse your choice of descriptors when you allude to "slice" versus "push' cutting because for me (and from what I've hear from Will and Rob) that's not really very accurate. Here is where we get into some trouble as those terms are commonly understood when we talk steel alloys. Talonite leaves that pack when we try to describe its cutting prowess after the razor or wire edge is gone. [And yes, Rob, from what Sal and I discussed during my visit a year ago to his stomping grounds, Spyderco's edge tester puts a premium on that wire edge... hence their results weren't indicative of the true capabilities of a sound Talonite cutting edge.] Frankly Gene I've yet to come up with a satisfactory way of describing that post-wire edge "feel". Perhaps that is really a futile exercise; and the more appropriate way to convey things is with the practical experiences such as embodied in Will's eloquent post. Let's face it...field dressing 5 gnarly, grizzly, tough old wild boars is no small task. And for a blade to do that and still shave hair off one's arm despite not having that grabby feel to the thumb that we normally associate with real sharpness, is no small feat. That's why I love Talonite so much. It's like that little pink bunny... it just keeps cutting

!!!

Take care!

------------------
-=[Bob Allman]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute; Varmint Hunters Association;
National Rifle Association; Praire Thunder Inc.; Rapid City Rifle Club;
Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club; Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!

[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 02-12-2000).]

 

[tom mayo]

Im sure most of have seen it, but on the smith page Deloro Stellite has jumped into the ring....wont quote prices....one thing few people know: 6K is a BEAR to grind...its a whole different animal than the Talonite we are using, which grinds reasonably easy. 6K on the other hand...will only grind with very fresh belts...one minute with a fresh belt and you have to put on another one... its is beyond belief hard to work...as many will soon see. I also feel that it has a tendancy to chip whereas Talonite will bend at the same place. my 2cents

------------------
http://www.mayoknives.com

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Bob :

Talonite leaves that pack when we try to describe its cutting prowess after the razor or wire edge is gone.

You have to be very careful when discussing this as you may be judging performance of the primary grind which obviously changes little with edge wear. This is mainly push cutting on stiff materials or forceful cuts on materials held under tension. A blade with a nice profile for example will whittle wood for practically forever, long after the edge loses its bite.

As an example, I sent out a CPM-3V blade awhile ago and recived comments about how well it cut when it was "blunt" meaning it didn't shave hair. This was because the cutting was of a type that was controlled mainly by the primary grind which in this case was very acute. That blade outcut several others in A2 and O1 simply because even when it was blunt it would cut better than they would at near optimal performance. This could lead to a very skewed opinion of its edge holding ability.

For similar reasons the blades I have by Phil Wilson will continue to cut long after the edges have worn down as the blade is only .01" behind the edge so it will easily push into materials generating the necessary pressure with little force. David Boye's blades are known to do the same thing. I have also heard the same thing about the Deerhunter by A. G. Russel.

One other thing, it is very necessary to take into account the experience of the user when judging field reports. If you don't know what you are at you will stress a blade much more than someone who will. This difference can very easily be far greater than the range of performance in blade steels. It is next to impossible to judge unless a reference point is given, ie. multiple blades are used.

For example, I don't fillet fish very well, quite simply I would rather steak it than fillet and never practiced it. If I was to fillet 50 cod and one of my fathers friends who have done it from the time they were 5, they would sharpen their blades far less than me even if using an inferior steel because of the grossly greater amount of work I would be doing and the increase in unnecessary bone impacts and such.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 02-14-2000).]