Cliff,
You stated:
"You have to be very careful when discussing this as you may be judging performance of the primary grind which obviously changes little with edge wear. This is mainly push cutting on stiff materials or forceful cuts on materials held under tension. A blade with a nice profile for example will whittle wood for practically forever, long after the edge loses its bite."
I guess all I need to do is draw your attention once more to what Will wrote about his experiences with the 5 wild boar. Keep in mind that the edge of the Cetan he used is exactly the same profile and grind as my Wambli. For that matter the edge Trace Rinaldi put on my Chimera is of like geometry.
Regardless of the technique used on those boar, the edge still shaved hair. I'd be willing to bet that it would have performed well slicing newsprint, styrofoam cups or cigarette rolling papers too given my own personal experiences. So you must understand my comments in the context in which they were offered rather than disect specific sentences. My post really was a lament about the inadequacies of adjectives and adverbs in attempting to fully convey the cutting and edge holding abilities of Talonite. I concluded that practical cutting abilities exemplified in field reports such as Will Fennell's do much better. Recall I told Gene that the concept of push or draw cuts didn't fully fit in my mind. I still feel strongly about that because the feel of Talonite when using a well crafted blade of it is sufficiently different from steel. Recall further words like "slippery" being used in older posts. That still isn't accuracte enough in my book either.
I fully understand what you postulate about blade geometry and its functionality while relatively dull. That still doesn't fit Talonite in the sense that Rob discovered fairly early on that Talonite's performance required optimized blade and edge geometry regardless if it wore a razor wire edge or had been through miles of corrogated cardboard. What I mean here is that for other materials to perform well dull they need to be made of an exceptionally narrow profile. Talonite on the other hand is optimized with a flat grind and reinforced edge of around 0.020. I certainly wouldn't call that a narrow profile and as such simply doesn't fit your scenario about other metals.
As I stated, Talonite leaves the pack after loosing its wire edge. I trust I've been able to adequately convey what I deem darned difficult to express.
Cheers!
Gene,
I know you've stated that you strongly disagree about Talonite having that different feel. I don't know what to say as it should be quite obvious from my posts since receiving my first Talonite blade late '98 early '99 that I do in fact find it to have a different feel. To be sure it is subtle, but I find it there nonetheless. I guess, as friends, we can agree to disagree, with perhaps an analogy to another passion of mine... audio. Many folks swear that they hear no difference between CDs and LPs reproduced with reasonably good components. I certainly do, as do many recording technicians and artists who prefer analog over digital. Does that mean either group is wrong? Nope! Not from my knothole. It's simply a matter of thresholds in the audio game and when they/we talk of soundstage, imaging, etc., it can get pretty dicey as in many cases the differences are small and subtle. I love the sound of my bi-amplified Magneplanar MG-IIIa's. I find an easily discernable difference between planar (bi-polar radiating screens) and box (acoustic suspension, bass reflex, transmiision line, etc.) speakers. Others relish the "box" sound. Others still find no differences at all, especially with loud "boomy" music. So it appears with Talonite. All agree that the stuff cuts and cuts and cuts... it's just that we all don't agree on the feel, techniques, whatever vis-a-vis conventional stainless and tool steels. And that's what makes this hobby, cutlery, interesting and fun too as we each seek out what works and feels best for our particular uses. Be warned though about too narrow a flatgrind, as you've posted an intention to have a narrow one made. Re-read Walt and Steve's posts about that overly narrow Talonite blade that failed against a coke bottle. I don't want to see something like that happen to you
!!!
Take care ol' bud! Good to have you still haunting these grounds!!!
------------------
-=[Bob Allman]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute; Varmint Hunters Association;
National Rifle Association; Praire Thunder Inc.; Rapid City Rifle Club;
Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club; Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!
[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 02-14-2000).]
You stated:
"You have to be very careful when discussing this as you may be judging performance of the primary grind which obviously changes little with edge wear. This is mainly push cutting on stiff materials or forceful cuts on materials held under tension. A blade with a nice profile for example will whittle wood for practically forever, long after the edge loses its bite."
I guess all I need to do is draw your attention once more to what Will wrote about his experiences with the 5 wild boar. Keep in mind that the edge of the Cetan he used is exactly the same profile and grind as my Wambli. For that matter the edge Trace Rinaldi put on my Chimera is of like geometry.
Regardless of the technique used on those boar, the edge still shaved hair. I'd be willing to bet that it would have performed well slicing newsprint, styrofoam cups or cigarette rolling papers too given my own personal experiences. So you must understand my comments in the context in which they were offered rather than disect specific sentences. My post really was a lament about the inadequacies of adjectives and adverbs in attempting to fully convey the cutting and edge holding abilities of Talonite. I concluded that practical cutting abilities exemplified in field reports such as Will Fennell's do much better. Recall I told Gene that the concept of push or draw cuts didn't fully fit in my mind. I still feel strongly about that because the feel of Talonite when using a well crafted blade of it is sufficiently different from steel. Recall further words like "slippery" being used in older posts. That still isn't accuracte enough in my book either.
I fully understand what you postulate about blade geometry and its functionality while relatively dull. That still doesn't fit Talonite in the sense that Rob discovered fairly early on that Talonite's performance required optimized blade and edge geometry regardless if it wore a razor wire edge or had been through miles of corrogated cardboard. What I mean here is that for other materials to perform well dull they need to be made of an exceptionally narrow profile. Talonite on the other hand is optimized with a flat grind and reinforced edge of around 0.020. I certainly wouldn't call that a narrow profile and as such simply doesn't fit your scenario about other metals.
As I stated, Talonite leaves the pack after loosing its wire edge. I trust I've been able to adequately convey what I deem darned difficult to express.
Cheers!
Gene,
I know you've stated that you strongly disagree about Talonite having that different feel. I don't know what to say as it should be quite obvious from my posts since receiving my first Talonite blade late '98 early '99 that I do in fact find it to have a different feel. To be sure it is subtle, but I find it there nonetheless. I guess, as friends, we can agree to disagree, with perhaps an analogy to another passion of mine... audio. Many folks swear that they hear no difference between CDs and LPs reproduced with reasonably good components. I certainly do, as do many recording technicians and artists who prefer analog over digital. Does that mean either group is wrong? Nope! Not from my knothole. It's simply a matter of thresholds in the audio game and when they/we talk of soundstage, imaging, etc., it can get pretty dicey as in many cases the differences are small and subtle. I love the sound of my bi-amplified Magneplanar MG-IIIa's. I find an easily discernable difference between planar (bi-polar radiating screens) and box (acoustic suspension, bass reflex, transmiision line, etc.) speakers. Others relish the "box" sound. Others still find no differences at all, especially with loud "boomy" music. So it appears with Talonite. All agree that the stuff cuts and cuts and cuts... it's just that we all don't agree on the feel, techniques, whatever vis-a-vis conventional stainless and tool steels. And that's what makes this hobby, cutlery, interesting and fun too as we each seek out what works and feels best for our particular uses. Be warned though about too narrow a flatgrind, as you've posted an intention to have a narrow one made. Re-read Walt and Steve's posts about that overly narrow Talonite blade that failed against a coke bottle. I don't want to see something like that happen to you
Take care ol' bud! Good to have you still haunting these grounds!!!
------------------
-=[Bob Allman]=-
I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!
BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute; Varmint Hunters Association;
National Rifle Association; Praire Thunder Inc.; Rapid City Rifle Club;
Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club; Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!
[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 02-14-2000).]
