Okay, semi-retired from knives, thanks to you all =]

"Maybe if we eliminate the amount of objects that can Possibly used as weapons - violent crimes might decrease" (notice I said "Possibly", and "might" - two suggestions that this way of thinking is dubious in nature).

Let's see:

+Pencils
+Pens
+Anything other than plastic kitchen cutlery
+Wooden boards
+Cars
+Glass Bottles
+Staplers
+Magazines
+Flashlights
+Hot coffee
+etc. until we all just walk around with a licensed caretaker to do everything for us.

This line of thinking does not work, never has worked and will continue to not work forever. You may ban hammers and have hammer-crime drop like a stone but I bet people will still kill/maim each other with the next object, which will have to be banned until no one can actually own anything that isn't made of styrofoam.

Time to be an American citizen GarageBoy. Write the local newspaper and public officials with your concerns in a serious, concise tone, as a concerned patriot.
If that won't work -move.

+1

Make as much noise for as long as possible until you see the outcome you like. It's hard and you may face some big losses but only you can value the worth of the battle. One of the main reasons I live in Alabama is that I can carry a knife with no hassle and I can choose to carry a gun (with permit) when I feel the need.

Knife content: Option #2: Use a Leatherman Hybrid tool to open blister packs. The bypass pruners work so amazingly well it's worth the 40$ just to buy a "blisterpack opener".
 
Spoon,

I think you simply reiterated my point.

Although, the dissenting view would be: other "utilitarian" objects have other intended uses other than tactical purposes. I think sheeple would be more passive if we all carried SAKS instead of tactical folders. (But then, where do you draw the line?)

Like I said, their argument is a defeatist view on a slippery slope - but then again - how many world conquering policies have been based on equally dubious foundations...

Either way, we are all in agreement on one issue:

We like our knives and will continue to carry them. (except for Garageboy... haha)
 
Ha! It's for this exact reason that I told my girlfriend, "When we get married, I'm spending a couple grand and getting a Smith & Wesson Military and Police .40 pistol and a Patriot Ordinance Factory's P-415 (a civilian M4, but piston powered). Also, I'm going to at least buy a silencer (legal in Ohio) for my rifle and maybe one for the .40. All of this before these stinking laws come back into place before Bush is out of office. Add on an ACOG or Aimpoint, and a laser/led light combo and I'll be ready for the revolt when it comes, lol...

NYC sounds ridiculous... move to Chicago for Heaven's sake. Good luck guys.
Ryan

P.S. Why IS NYC so ridiculous with their laws? When did this happen?

As I understand it, he's not exactly on our side. I don't know that he's the enemy either, but like I said, I don't beleive he's exactly fighting for our rights in this respect.
 
The day that I can't carry a utility like a knife in my pocket, have a gun or guns and ammo in my house is the day that I will leave the area I'm in. Hopefully it won't happen here but you never know. And I hope that won't be the entire US because I love this country and I don't know where I'd go where I would have those rights and the other as/more important rights. I wish we could go back to the days when republicans were repulicans. Small Gov.
 
Rather, I was validated in the knowledge that inanimate objects do not commit or cause violent crimes. Violent criminals commit violent crimes; the means by which they do so is actually irrelevant. Murder and crime existed long before firearms and one-handed, pocket-clipped folding knives did.​

Let me point out really quickly that I carry a knife regularly and am sympathetic to the plight of the original poster. That being said, this isn't an all-or-nothing type of situation. Of course there will always be risk of violence, regardless of what weapons are banned. However, in a city of umpteen million people, there are certain precautions that are taken for relative risk reduction. Large, densely populated urban centers, where strangers move among each other shoulder to shoulder, where violent crime is a constant issue, require basic precautions. It makes a certain amount of sense to ban open display of potential weapons (regardless of utility as "tools").
 
Not to discount anyones opinion but I don't get it.:confused: In NYC it sounds like you can carry a pretty big knife legally as long as it's completely in your pocket. What's the problem? You're going to quit carrying knives just because you can't clip it to your pocket?
The gravity knife bs in NY would make me madder than having to keep it in my pocket.:mad:
 
You can still carry a fixed blade (blade size under 4") without breaking any laws in NYC.

My EDC today is Busse Active Duty.
 
I am reminded of the saying "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". The same can obviously be said of knives. The people that you don't want to be carrying weapons are the criminals, and by definition, they don't care what the laws are and will continue to carry weapons whether they are legal or not. The only people who will be disarmed are the law abiding citizens, making them easier targets for the criminals. Banning the carry of knives is not only unconstitutional, it is illogical. Can the 2nd amendment be any clearer? How can laws like this exist when the Bill of Rights guarantees us "the right to bear arms"?
-end of rant-
 
Quoted from Fleetparadox:

"The correlation between knife and weapon may not be completely causational and reasonable, but it does have a mild relationship fueled by a progression of caution and paranoid. Fear is a strong strong emotion that overrides all the others... So yeah, I agree with you Trout. Theirs is an argument with holes, but holes that one could progress through - with a little illogical fear as the motivator."

I agree with this assessment, fleet. My overriding thought is that key, influential sectors in our own country generate, propogate, and disseminate fear throughout our society. This is often done using real-life situations. The fear that's been instilled in people is then warped into paranoia, via lies and misinformation. This wins much of the population over to the illogical side of firearm and knife beliefs.
One cure for this problem is simple, real-world experience. I know that a knife is a primary tool because I took some survival courses and experienced first-hand the usefulness and benefit of a knife. I built shelters, made fires, prepared and cooked food, as well as many other basic life functions, with a knife. I can judge knives according to their abilities, rather than via a lens of distortion. Yes, knives can be weapons; a more efficacious usage of knives, though, is as multi-purpose, primary tools.
I'm convinced that if more people spent time away from tv, the internet (say it though I shouldn't :o ) and other cultural trappings, investing that time in some true life experiences, society as a whole would benefit. More people would be able to see through fear-mongering. I'm not so sure that society as a whole is willing to step out of urbania for some wilderness time, though...

Quoted from zozo:

"in a city of umpteen million people, there are certain precautions that are taken for relative risk reduction. Large, densely populated urban centers, where strangers move among each other shoulder to shoulder, where violent crime is a constant issue, require basic precautions. It makes a certain amount of sense to ban open display of potential weapons (regardless of utility as "tools")."

I agree, zozo, that reasonable precautions against violence in large urban centers should be taken. However, I don't wholly agree with the notion that banning or heavily regulating knife and gun carry will truly help curb violence. As has been stated by other posters, people inclined towards victimizing their fellow man will do so, in spite of laws prohibiting carry of potential weapons. It can't be over-stated that laws which prohibit legal carry of weapons serve only to aid criminals. Here's a quote from a famous man concerning this very issue:
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book" 1774-1776
I do agree that widespread violence needs to be counteracted. I don't believe that forced disarmament of the population will help reduce violence. In regards to knives, specifically, they are such a useful tool that forcing people to not carry them affects not only an individual's ability to defend themself, but also their ability to "fend for themself", ultimately making people less self-reliant and more dependant on "the system".
 
Trout,

I think you're changing the arc of the discussion. My point is not that knives should be outlawed and that law-abiding citizens should not have the right to defend themselves. We're not talking about "laws that forbid the carrying of arms."

The law relates to open display of a weapon. My point was that, in a crowded metropolis, open carry of potential weapons creates a certain risk of avoidable violence. People are not being forced to not carry knives, but merely to keep them concealed.
 
If you have no ill intent, why would you wish to conceal your weapon? Police officers do not carry their weapons concealed, they want the bad guys to see them. Laws should not regulate how you carry a knife, but rather how you use that knife. If you carry a knife with no intent to harm another, there should be no penalty. If you use a knife to assault another (not self-defense) then there should be an additional penalty (assault + weapons use). I understand that the idea of prohibiting open carry is to avoid elevated tensions, but I don't think that we should be legally restricted from open carry of a knife just because it might offend someone.
 
There is no way to successfully argue the point of differring knife laws as our experiences are all based on where we live and how our community reacts to certain things. You have to live in a big city to understand the tension that exist in one. I have hunted and fished all my life, but I have always live in and near NYC, and since I have not "lived" in a rual area, I would never think I could totally understand the day in and day out life that exist there. In the city of today, weapons often create far more problems then they could prevent or correct. In all my years in uniform with a sidearm openly displayed in NYC, there were few times I would have been justifed in using it, but there were many times that while gaining control of a suspect, my main concern was keeping my pistol safe and in my control. I know there are other present/former LEOs on this site that most likely feel the same. If you carry a non weapon type of knife that conforms to your local laws you will most likely never have an issue.....In a more rural area I assume you can carry anything you want, but the chances of you having a issue are far less.....
 
If I was going to be subjected to metal detectors I would choose a different line of work, or concider carrying a ceramic knife. Probably the ceramic knife would get me through until I could find a line of work that did not involve something as invasive as metal detectors.

I could not tollerate living in a place where knife laws smother basic civil liberties, and the metal detectors invading my privacy. I live in an area where many folks are carrying fixed blades, and folding knives are as common as cell phones on the belt, and thats works just fine.
 
If you have no ill intent, why would you wish to conceal your weapon? Police officers do not carry their weapons concealed, they want the bad guys to see them. Laws should not regulate how you carry a knife, but rather how you use that knife. If you carry a knife with no intent to harm another, there should be no penalty. If you use a knife to assault another (not self-defense) then there should be an additional penalty (assault + weapons use). I understand that the idea of prohibiting open carry is to avoid elevated tensions, but I don't think that we should be legally restricted from open carry of a knife just because it might offend someone.


The reason weapons should be concealed, is simple. The bad guys should have to wonder who is armed, and who isn't. If they can see who is, and who isn't, then they chan pick and choose who, when, and where to victomize them. I want the bad guy to look at a large man and a little old grandma on the street, and wonder..... Who's armed? Does the big 300lb guy have a knife? Does the frail little grandma have a gun? If I mug the grandma, will the big guy cut my throat? If I pull a gun on the big guy, will granma pull a Glock and blow my head off? Criminals will get their hands on a weapon anyway, no matter how strict the laws. If nothing else, they'll kill a Cop and take his. But they should have to be in fear of their lives every time they commit a crime! Even if I go to the corner store unarmed, some bad guy on the corner, should have to wonder..... is he armed, or not? If I try to mug him, will I die? It's been said that an armed society, is a polite society. I think everyone should be armed, whenever, and wherever they choose. I believe anyone who's descent, would never be a problem to anyone else anyway, and anyone who isn't, wouldn't live long enough to be much of a problem.
 
Trout,

It's a pleasure to read your articulated thoughts. You hit the nail on the head - it's propagated information. The play of normalizing social thought/stigma creates platforms of power. i.e. Red Scare - "The junior senator from Wisconsin." However, I would have to say... we're on the extreme side. As one poster said, he is planning on stockpiling an M-4 variant. Sooner or later, the protection of one's self escalates the danger level. i.e Nuclear stockpiling - sometimes the best intentions can lead to disaster.


If you have no ill intent, why would you wish to conceal your weapon? Police officers do not carry their weapons concealed, they want the bad guys to see them. Laws should not regulate how you carry a knife, but rather how you use that knife. If you carry a knife with no intent to harm another, there should be no penalty.

Ehhh... this is a fine line to tiptoe on. I mean, if we drag this line of thinking out: is it okay to carry cocaine if you don't use it? Should we all carry pocket cannons without the intent of using it? The availability of weapons leads to use - unintentional or not. Humans are far too emotional and fickle creatures. I mean the percentage of "crimes of passion" are staggering. If most criminals really knew the consequences of jail time, a life ruined, and the pain caused by their actions, would they really follow through? Most situations don't allow for calculated thought and reasoning. Intention only comes into play when there is time to consider the situation - which is rare. This argument of "no intent" is almost similar to the argument of "it's not illegal if you don't get caught." Proactive restriction is used to simplify the LEOs' jobs so they don't have to argue intent.
 
The "Independent Knife Reviewer" business card can come in awful handy. You see sir, I carry these knives and write reviews about them for internet websites and magazines..... I would be happy to include the departments views on citizens carrying pocket knives........
 
The "Independent Knife Reviewer" business card can come in awful handy. You see sir, I carry these knives and write reviews about them for internet websites and magazines..... I would be happy to include the departments views on citizens carrying pocket knives........

Hahahaha. Can I get one of those too?
 
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