- Joined
- Jan 20, 2004
- Messages
- 1,526
Quoted from zozo,
"I think you're changing the arc of the discussion. My point is not that knives should be outlawed... My point was that, in a crowded metropolis, open carry of potential weapons creates a certain risk of avoidable violence. People are not being forced to not carry knives, but merely to keep them concealed."
I both agree and disagree with you, zozo. I agree with the rationale that legally-mandated concealment of weapons in large urban centers can bring a measure of violence reduction. I don't personally like the idea of that restriction, but I can see the logic behind it.
I don't agree that I'm changing the arc of the discussion, though. I'd say, rather, that I'm broadening the discussion with what I deem to be relevant information. Knife laws of any stripe affect society. Our current culture is fighting to retain the basic rights that this country was founded on. GarageBoy's initial post, based on prior experience with NY LEO, has led him to decide it imprudent to carry a pocket knife in NY. To me, this begs the question of why, in a "free country", should a presumably non-violent, law abiding citizen feel compelled to forego carrying such a useful and basic implement as a knife. That is why I've included the thoughts that I have in this discussion - I beleive the OP's experience to be indicative of larger issues at hand in this country.
Quoted from fleetparadox,
"It's a pleasure to read your articulated thoughts. You hit the nail on the head - it's propagated information. However, I would have to say... we're on the extreme side. As one poster said, he is planning on stockpiling an M-4 variant. Sooner or later, the protection of one's self escalates the danger level. i.e Nuclear stockpiling - sometimes the best intentions can lead to disaster."
Thank you for the compliment, fleet. I've enjoyed exchanging ideas with you, and all of the other posters in this thread.
As for the idea of stockpiling weapons, it seems to me that what we do on a personal level is exactly what groups of people do on a national level. Everyone inherently knows that danger and violence exist in this world. We also have a natural inclination to protect ourselves. Both of these basic human insights are perfectly valid. When we factor in the issues of society, justice, interaction with other societies, and a whole host of other components, well, that's where discernment and laws concerning weapons gets interesting
Quoted from tom19176,
"There is no way to successfully argue the point of differring knife laws as our experiences are all based on where we live and how our community reacts to certain things. You have to live in a big city to understand the tension that exist in one... since I have not "lived" in a rual area, I would never think I could totally understand the day in and day out life that exist there. In the city of today, weapons often create far more problems then they could prevent or correct."
You've mentioned some interesting and valid points in your posts, tom. I do confess that I don't understand the tension of daily life in a big city. Here in the rural southwest, much of life is very relaxed. That's not to say all is safe and peaceful; however, people's general existence is less harried and tense.
In lieu of the final statement you made in the quote above, I can't help but wonder - hypothetically, if everyone was openly armed, would the same problem of violence exist? Eh, probably. Perhaps it'd be even worse. The upside is that everyone would be on a somewhat more level playing field. Perhaps Vermont and Alaska have the best idea, yet - all adults are able to carry concealed whatever they darn well pleased. With such a law, all people know that any adult around has the potential to protect themselves if needed. I think that this simple knowledge would deter some crime. So, now that I've written this, I can't help but wonder - what if every person of legal age in the US had the legal freedom to carry concealed weapons? It's interesting to ponder.
Good discussion, y'all :thumbup:
"I think you're changing the arc of the discussion. My point is not that knives should be outlawed... My point was that, in a crowded metropolis, open carry of potential weapons creates a certain risk of avoidable violence. People are not being forced to not carry knives, but merely to keep them concealed."
I both agree and disagree with you, zozo. I agree with the rationale that legally-mandated concealment of weapons in large urban centers can bring a measure of violence reduction. I don't personally like the idea of that restriction, but I can see the logic behind it.
I don't agree that I'm changing the arc of the discussion, though. I'd say, rather, that I'm broadening the discussion with what I deem to be relevant information. Knife laws of any stripe affect society. Our current culture is fighting to retain the basic rights that this country was founded on. GarageBoy's initial post, based on prior experience with NY LEO, has led him to decide it imprudent to carry a pocket knife in NY. To me, this begs the question of why, in a "free country", should a presumably non-violent, law abiding citizen feel compelled to forego carrying such a useful and basic implement as a knife. That is why I've included the thoughts that I have in this discussion - I beleive the OP's experience to be indicative of larger issues at hand in this country.
Quoted from fleetparadox,
"It's a pleasure to read your articulated thoughts. You hit the nail on the head - it's propagated information. However, I would have to say... we're on the extreme side. As one poster said, he is planning on stockpiling an M-4 variant. Sooner or later, the protection of one's self escalates the danger level. i.e Nuclear stockpiling - sometimes the best intentions can lead to disaster."
Thank you for the compliment, fleet. I've enjoyed exchanging ideas with you, and all of the other posters in this thread.
As for the idea of stockpiling weapons, it seems to me that what we do on a personal level is exactly what groups of people do on a national level. Everyone inherently knows that danger and violence exist in this world. We also have a natural inclination to protect ourselves. Both of these basic human insights are perfectly valid. When we factor in the issues of society, justice, interaction with other societies, and a whole host of other components, well, that's where discernment and laws concerning weapons gets interesting
Quoted from tom19176,
"There is no way to successfully argue the point of differring knife laws as our experiences are all based on where we live and how our community reacts to certain things. You have to live in a big city to understand the tension that exist in one... since I have not "lived" in a rual area, I would never think I could totally understand the day in and day out life that exist there. In the city of today, weapons often create far more problems then they could prevent or correct."
You've mentioned some interesting and valid points in your posts, tom. I do confess that I don't understand the tension of daily life in a big city. Here in the rural southwest, much of life is very relaxed. That's not to say all is safe and peaceful; however, people's general existence is less harried and tense.
In lieu of the final statement you made in the quote above, I can't help but wonder - hypothetically, if everyone was openly armed, would the same problem of violence exist? Eh, probably. Perhaps it'd be even worse. The upside is that everyone would be on a somewhat more level playing field. Perhaps Vermont and Alaska have the best idea, yet - all adults are able to carry concealed whatever they darn well pleased. With such a law, all people know that any adult around has the potential to protect themselves if needed. I think that this simple knowledge would deter some crime. So, now that I've written this, I can't help but wonder
- what if every person of legal age in the US had the legal freedom to carry concealed weapons? It's interesting to ponder.Good discussion, y'all :thumbup:
In NYC it sounds like you can carry a pretty big knife legally as long as it's completely in your pocket. What's the problem? You're going to quit carrying knives just because you can't clip it to your pocket?
