Okay who is crazy here?

First Les now Para's giving out homework assignments? Geez, I thought I was through with that when i graduated college.:rolleyes: :p
 
Here is that sword I was talking about Para. Don Fogg really is the man.
Celtic2.jpg
 
Originally posted by Triton:
To me it is not functional so I don't want it.
Click to expand...

Triton! In today's world, how much "function" does a sword really have? You can't carry one around anywhere in the US (sure it may be legal in some places, but disturbing the peace is not), and I can't think of any daily chores that I would use a sword for. To me, a sword is about as non-functional as it gets (except maybe Hibbend's stuff).

Just $0.02 from a guy with no swords,

-Al-
 
I used to have a knife that said R.W.Loveless on the blade.
I took it to a "proffesional" because I thought it should have a perfect edge. Something happened and I had a grind mark right through Loveless. :rolleyes:
Now I have a high polished no name blade.

Alex
 
I think I should clarify what I mean when I say "functional." You are of course absolutely right, there is not any place where you can wear a sword around anymore (besides who would want to except for some Highlander wannabes.) What I mean by functional is one that can perform at the same level that any sword has ever been able to. I mean one that I could take down from a wall step into a time machine and be capable of using on a medieval battlefield if that makes any sense? I want to own a weapon that I know can stand up to anything approaching normal use in 1300 and still be in one piece when I am done. To my mind this Loveless knife is not functional because you would be insane to use a 19000 dollar knife to do anything with other then sit in a case. An antique sword is the same way. You would have to be insane to use it for cutting something and risk destroying it. On the other hand I frequently use my reproduction swords for test cutting and it is a heck of a lot of fun.
 
$19000 for a custom knife well we know the buyer if ever to buy that knife has different priorities in life...me no chance, I had to pay $15000 in taxes last and that knife is $4000 more! O.K I do have 2 Confederate Motorcycles (hellcatalley.com) so that will get me a little over 1/2 way to another...what will a $19000 knife do? lay in a glass box looking pretty till sorry, Loveless dies so I can make a profit I hope to somebody else who wants it to look pretty in his showcase...User knife no way, art knife no way, investment I guess so but for only those who are willing to spend that amount on what might cost $60 in materials...what an exspensive name
Sweet
 
Well if you guys are going to talk about modern U.S. sword makers ya need to include Howard Clark also.

If forced, personally it would be hard for me to decide between Don and Howard's work. :)
 
So then based on your definition, the functionality of a blade is directly related to the income level of the user? If, say $19,000 was as meaningless to you as pocket change, would a Loveless then be functional? To me, functionality is something that is inherent in the piece. Can it do what it was designed to do?

Perhaps a quality like usability is more what you are talking about. The designer of a knife may use it every day according to its functionality; whereas, someone who pays $19,000 for the same knife may never use it at all.

Anyway, I think I see what you are getting at. Five years ago I never would have dreamed of paying over $300 for a pocketknife, and I would hesitate to use my Emerson/Benchmade collaboration which I paid $96 for. Back then, a Sebenza was useless to me as I would be afraid of damaging it. Today, my Sebenza is my EDC. Not only did I pay close to $350 for it, I use it everyday. It fulfills its functional role perfectly, and as far as usability goes, well like I said it's my EDC.

Now, would I ever use a $19,000 Loveless? Not until I make $19 million a year! Still very functional, but totally useless to me right now.

-Al-
 
That Loveless subbie might be an investment at the moment but don't forget it was a user when made. That knife was not made as an art knife or wall hanger just through a fluke that it has become one.
Bob
 
Question: What's the biggest problem with the world today, ignorance or apathy?

Answer: I don't know, and I don't care.

I don't know of any more common traits among humans than ignorance and apathy. We all have things we don't know about, care about or care to know about.

Triton, I don't know who those sword makers are, but I do know who Howard Clark and Don Fogg are. I'm not a gambler, but I'd be willing to bet they both know who Bob Loveless is, and so should you. I know there are forums here I never go to because of a lack of interest. That's due in part to my feeling that the blades mentioned there have no practical purpose for me. That would include; swords, automatics and balis. I can't legally carry or use any of them. Still I wouldn't go into any of those forums and call anyone crazy for buying or selling or comment on a makers work I know nothing about. You think a sword is more functional than the Loveless knife, even though you'd need a Time Machine to use it. I have to admire your logic and I can see why you spend so much time in the Political Forum here. :rolleyes:

I want to thank you for starting what has turned out to be a very interesting thread. I have said before jokingly, that there should be a Knife IQ test to post on the these forums. If there was a question, "Who are the three most influential knife makers of the 20TH Century?" Robert Loveless's name would appear more times than most. Bill Moran would be up there and I wonder who #3 would be?

Hey, that may be another interesting thread? ;)
 
however..i the same knife can be had from several very good makers
inlcuding myself..for less than $300... i would imagine a few details
would vary..but basically the same knife or better , heck..if that
dude gets that price..im building nothing but and then selling em all
for $15k each...who wants the first one!
 
Dave already gave my knives the thumbs up at Blade West (he was willing to sign my guild application before I decided not to join), does that mean I can raise my prices?:D
 
Al,

I think you have an absolutely excellent point, namely that there is a difference between functionality and usability. As you say the knife in question is functional, that is it can be used as a knife. However for the vast majority of us it is completely unusable.

In a similar fashion some antique swords are functional that is they can still be function as swords but they are unusable because of their intrinsic historical value that would be lost if they were destroyed during use.

By this reasoning even those "starship fighter" knives that I saw in some magazine are functional because they were made to look interesting which is what they do. On the other hand they are not functional as real knives for the most part.

All in all an excellent point and one for me to remember.
 
Triton, I don't know who those sword makers are, but I do know who Howard Clark and Don Fogg are. I'm not a gambler, but I'd be willing to bet they both know who Bob Loveless is, and so should you.

I really fail to see why. I am sure Mr. Clark and Mr. Fogg do in fact know who Mr. Loveless is, they are part of a small community of people who make custom blades for a living. As such it is only reasonable to assume that they know each other. They may even swap tips for all I know. On the other hand as far as I know Mr. Loveless does not make anything over knife size. I don't really care about most bladed objects that are under sword size so why should I be terribly concerned about Mr. Loveless or his work? I would say that I have been educated a bit here and I know a little about Mr. Loveless or at least who he is now but I really have no interest in pursuing the matter just as you have no interest in finding out anything more about balisongs.

I know there are forums here I never go to because of a lack of interest. That's due in part to my feeling that the blades mentioned there have no practical purpose for me.

That is exactly how I feel about some of the forums here (although different ones obviously). The reason that a lot of these blades have no practical purpose for me is because I don't own them, don't care to, and really don't want to invest the time to learn about them. They simply don't interest me any more then submolecular biology does.

Still I wouldn't go into any of those forums and call anyone crazy for buying or selling or comment on a makers work I know nothing about.

I posted the original post to be a tongue in cheek question. I was curious as to what you guys thought of what to me is a massively overpriced knife. I figured that some would say that the price/seller were nuts and some would say that I was nuts. That has been pretty much borne out. I suppose you could say I was insulting Mr. Loveless by saying I think the price being asked is ridiculous. That was certainly not my intent. I have attempted to clarify by saying that the knife is not worth that much to me. I have further stated that if Mr. Loveless can get someone to fork over that kind of dough for the knife more power to him.

You think a sword is more functional than the Loveless knife, even though you'd need a Time Machine to use it. I have to admire your logic and I can see why you spend so much time in the Political Forum here.

Al had a good thought on the differences in usability and functionality above. A thought with which I very much agree. To my mind I mispoke earlier. The Loveless knife is functional but nonusable to all but a multi-gazillionaire. On the other hand modern reproduction swords are both functional that is they can function as swords and usable in that you can use them without fear of damaging an extraordinary investment.

I want to thank you for starting what has turned out to be a very interesting thread.

You are welcome. Just doing my bit to bring goodness and light to the world.

I have said before jokingly, that there should be a Knife IQ test to post on the these forums.

I know that you are saying it as a joke but I think that is a bad idea. How else are newbies ever going to learn anything? Further there are forums here that do not deal with knives at all such as the ones I frequent. I have no pretensions about knowing anything about knives, that is not why I am here.
 
<blockquote>
You think a sword is more functional than the Loveless knife, even though you'd need a Time Machine to use it. I have to admire your logic and I can see why you spend so much time in the Political Forum here.
</blockquote>

If I want a functional and less insanely-priced subhilt that I can actually use, I'll go buy a CS Black Bear Classic.

Another thing...I know it's a collector item and all, but I find it hard to convince myself that an amalgamation of a hollow ground stock-removal stainless steel blade, nickel silver mounts and micarta handle could cost $19000. And it doesn't have a sheath.

On the other hand, I CAN convince myself that a fully mounted and fully polished katana by Howard Clark can cost $5500+. 'Nuff said.
 
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