Olamic Wayfarer 247 closing smoothness

[Officer's Match]

I wonder, did you ask Mr. Curtiss whether or not he was licensing the design of his knife from Hinderer, and then ask him to explain why the knives look similar? It seems weird to me that someone would accuse knifemakers to their faces of using other knifemakers' designs.

OK, clearly Cory Hess didn't ask your blessing as to how to frame his original question. Different people can read characters on a monitor different ways, but my take was he was trying politely to get input about the similarities that exist between the profile of the XM and the 247. Frankly I feel somewhat complicit in this question in that I posted a picture of the two stacked on each other showing how strikingly similar their profiles are. I frankly see nothing wrong with the discussion, and the poster in question appears to have had face to face discussions with (some of) the makers involved without offending them.

 

[Cory Hess]

I have just spoken with Eugene. He was very helpful and friendly and answered all my questions while saying that he wasn't offended at all. I'm sorry that I upset you so much. In the future I'll probably go straight to the makers with my questions. Thanks to all of those that tried to help me out.

 

[Quiet]

OK, clearly Cory Hess didn't ask your blessing as to how to frame his original question. Different people can read characters on a monitor different ways, but my take was he was trying politely to get input about the similarities that exist between the profile of the XM and the 247. Frankly I feel somewhat complicit in this question in that I posted a picture of the two stacked on each other showing how strikingly similar their profiles are. I frankly see nothing wrong with the discussion, and the poster in question appears to have had face to face discussions with (some of) the makers involved without offending them.

No one requires anyone's blessing to post. However, if you post something like:

To my eye the Olamic Wayfarer looks like a Hinderer clone. My questions are: Did Hinderer take this design from somebody else or did it originate with him? Do Olamic and Curtiss license the design from Hinderer? Can I expect that most flippers in this range are going to be pretty much identical like these three knives are? Are there hangups in the community with purchasing a knife that has borrowed so much from another maker?

Why wouldn't you expect to be called on it?

Do the knives have a similar profile? They do, along with many others. Cory did state that he doesn't have much knowledge of modern folding knives, but it seems to me that he could have seen this situation in a different light. "I notice all these knives look similar, is there some overarching design requirement I'm unaware of?" But, clearly that's not how it went. In any case, he got his answers from Olamic, who I'm sure told him flat out "No, we didn't take or use Hinderer's design". I'm sorry that my responses in this thread upset him so much. (shrug)

 

[Hackenslash]

When viewed in that single dimension the knives share some similarities in profile, largely due to the consistent design of opposed thumbs.

If you align the knives in other dimensional comparisons, the question of similarity is a non-starter.

 

[RamZar]

There are no real similarities between the Olamic 247 and Hinderer XM-18 any more than many folders. However, both have two of the best handle ergos due to the curvature, finger choil and the flipper tab acting as guard. If anything, Olamic 247 has a more pronounced curvature. Such handle designs are not uncommon and afford a very secure grip.

As a mid-tech, Olamic 247 has rapidly moved into the same league as CRK, Hinderer and Strider. Whereas, the big three continue with their washers, lack of steel lock bar insert and mostly S30V/S35VN, Olamic 247 has all the modern amentities. Also, the prices are better. You can start with the low-end like mine for $375 with all titanium and M390. CRK Large Sebenza 21 and Large Inkosi (S35VN, all titanium) are $410-$445, Strider SnG (S30V, G-10 on presentation side) is $420 and Hinderer XM-18 3.5" (S35VN, G-10 on presentation side) is $425.

 

[Officer's Match]

When I was a knife noob (still am obviously. Been creeping around the forums for years, never posted), all knives essentially looked the same. Single blade, Snickers bar style handle.

Similarities?
-Drop point blade
-Flipper
-Lanyard hole
-Standoff screws


Differences? (These may seem insignificant, but you did use the word "identical")
-Jimping position (on handle vs on blade only)
-Opening hole vs thumbstud
-Handle material
-Handle shape
-Pivot Design
-Blade grind designs
-Edge shape
-Blade finish
-Flipper tab design
-Starting point of edge vs blade grind (same for Wayfarer, not same for Hinderer)

Probably some differences I didn't mention that I can't see. I can see where you are coming from though, there are way too many drop point flippers.

Actually this entire thread was just a ploy to draw you out of the shadows... good, well reasoned post IMHO.

 

[ChazzyP]

If you don't mind that would be awesome. I am not getting mine until Thursday. Seeing it next to bigger and smaller knives can help get a sense of the size of it for others that might be on the fence. I couldn't find many comparison pictures online.

Ok, I'll fast forward past Cory's odd 247/XM18 clone/licensing/whatever post and the 2-plus pages of not-unwarrantedly incredulous responses it generated and post another comparison pic per L_B's request. I shot and posted this one right after my 247 arrived and indicated back then that the three knives were 3 3/4, 3 5/8, and 3 1/2 inches.

As Armadew noted, the knife is not in any way bulky. It has some heft, but pockets extremely well, and packs a lotta knife in a surprisingly compact package.

Here it is next to my identical XM18. (Sorry, couldn't resist )

 

[Lord_Balkan]

Ok, I'll fast forward past Cory's odd 247/XM18 clone/licensing/whatever post and the 2-plus pages of not-unwarrantedly incredulous responses it generated and post another comparison pic per L_B's request. I shot and posted this one right after my 247 arrived and indicated back then that the three knives were 3 3/4, 3 5/8, and 3 1/2 inches.

As Armadew noted, the knife is not in any way bulky. It has some heft, but pockets extremely well, and packs a lotta knife in a surprisingly compact package.

Here it is next to my identical XM18. (Sorry, couldn't resist )

That is pretty awesome! For some reason it looks bulkier in pictures than it actually is. I will post some pics when I get mine Thursday.

 

[miltmaldo]

What are the differences in them . What makes the price go from $375 to $525 ?

 

[goldie]

(As a mid-tech, Olamic 247 has rapidly moved into the same league as CRK, Hinderer and Strider.) I agree and would add to the machined pocket clip that is completely even in its span on the inside from the ceramic ball to its standoffs, and that floating backspacer is one of the nicest touches I have seen in a long time.

 

[Officer's Match]

(As a mid-tech, Olamic 247 has rapidly moved into the same league as CRK, Hinderer and Strider.) I agree and would add to the machined pocket clip that is completely even in its span on the inside from the ceramic ball to its standoffs, and that floating backspacer is one of the nicest touches I have seen in a long time.

Agree. I also really appreciate the ramp/notch for the detent ball in the lock face.

 

[ChazzyP]

There are no real similarities between the Olamic 247 and Hinderer XM-18 any more than many folders. However, both have two of the best handle ergos due to the curvature, finger choil and the flipper tab acting as guard. If anything, Olamic 247 has a more pronounced curvature. Such handle designs are not uncommon and afford a very secure grip.

As a mid-tech, Olamic 247 has rapidly moved into the same league as CRK, Hinderer and Strider.

There's a thread here at BF seeking comparisons between the MP1 and the 247. As there aren't that many MP1s around there were quite a few comparisons made there between the XM18 and 247. It makes for interesting reading given the last couple pages of posts here.

The handle ergos of both knives are indeed excellent, Ram. That, and some similarity in profile are their commonalities, but they are for sure very different sorts of knives, though both are very well made.

(As a mid-tech, Olamic 247 has rapidly moved into the same league as CRK, Hinderer and Strider.) I agree and would add to the machined pocket clip that is completely even in its span on the inside from the ceramic ball to its standoffs, and that floating backspacer is one of the nicest touches I have seen in a long time.

I have a little trouble with clip on jeans with a thick top pocket hem, but it seems to be loosening up a bit and it's easy enough to slip my nail under the clip to help slip it in. The concept, appearance, and ergos on the clip are outstanding. The floating backspacer is very cool and is similar to the one on my Shiro 111.

Agree. I also really appreciate the ramp/notch for the detent ball in the lock face.

I hadn't noticed the detent-ball ramp until reading here and that subject brings us sort of full-circle to the OP question regarding closing smoothness. Not having that little hitch at the beginning when closing is very nice. A few of my knives tend to get caught at that point and it requires care not to do so or extra care not to slice the end off a finger if the ball does catch. Excellent feature on the 247.

As to knives closing under their own weight, only two of my frame-lock flippers do so--a Shiro F95T which is ridiculously free and smooth and an XM24 which, while very smooth, closes that way as the blade is so damn heavy. That free-drop closure is cool and fun, but if a knife will easily close with an index finger flip or a smooth transfer from index to thumb (like closing a CRK) then that's just fine. The 247 closes extremely smoothly using either of those two methods and seems to be loosening up more and more as it breaks in.

 

[Officer's Match]

I hadn't noticed the detent-ball ramp until reading here and that subject brings us sort of full-circle to the OP question regarding closing smoothness. Not having that little hitch at the beginning when closing is very nice. A few of my knives tend to get caught at that point and it requires care not to do so or extra care not to slice the end off a finger if the ball does catch. Excellent feature on the 247.

That is actually one of my only nitpicks on the XM, particularly newer ones: the detent ball is a noticeable "wall" the lockbar must climb when closing. I actually might try my hand at fashioning a notch in my Spanto user (my son bought me that one so I know it is a keeper, so no worries about hurting resale value).

I think the positioning of the detent ball (as in how far from the lockbar edge & how high up) is a factor in whether this is a bother or not - some framelock/linerlock knives have the detent up on the tang so early in the closing travel it isn't really an issue.

 

[evilgreg]

As to knives closing under their own weight, only two of my frame-lock flippers do so--a Shiro F95T which is ridiculously free and smooth and an XM24 which, while very smooth, closes that way as the blade is so damn heavy. That free-drop closure is cool and fun, but if a knife will easily close with an index finger flip or a smooth transfer from index to thumb (like closing a CRK) then that's just fine. The 247 closes extremely smoothly using either of those two methods and seems to be loosening up more and more as it breaks in.

I'm actually beginning to question whether or not I actually prefer the free-swinging smoothness in the first place. When I last put my first CKF Ratata back together I tightened the pivot until there was no noticeable blade play, and that left the blade so free that it easily falls with gravity. My usual not-thinking-about-it-at-all closing motion has me hitting the spine and the lock bar all at once, occasionally causing the tiniest pre-loading of pressure that has sent the particularly free-swinging Ratata blade slamming shut with my fingers just getting out of the way in the nick of time. I just got a second, modded Ratata in, and between the blade have the slightest texturing on it and the pivot being really cranked down, the second knife is still very smooth, but it takes a couple of shakes to close. The second knife feels so much safer that I think I'm going to tighten down my first one until it takes a couple of shakes as well. The free-swinging thing is a neat novelty, but in reality I think "very smooth, but with a little resistance" is actually my happy place.

 

[ChazzyP]

That is actually one of my only nitpicks on the XM, particularly newer ones: the detent ball is a noticeable "wall" the lockbar must climb when closing. I actually might try my hand at fashioning a notch in my Spanto user (my son bought me that one so I know it is a keeper, so no worries about hurting resale value).

I think the positioning of the detent ball (as in how far from the lockbar edge & how high up) is a factor in whether this is a bother or not - some framelock/linerlock knives have the detent up on the tang so early in the closing travel it isn't really an issue.

Yeah, I have that issue on my XM18. If I have my thumb way forward when disengaging the lock, the flipper tab hits my nail at pretty much the exact point that the detent ball hits the edge of the tang. It takes quite a push to overcome that and requires a grip change or second lockbar move to avoid partial digit removal. With the size/proportions on the XM24, this isn't a problem.

 

[Officer's Match]

Yeah, I have that issue on my XM18. If I have my thumb way forward when disengaging the lock, the flipper tab hits my nail at pretty much the exact point that the detent ball hits the edge of the tang. It takes quite a push to overcome that and requires a grip change or second lockbar move to avoid partial digit removal. With the size/proportions on the XM24, this isn't a problem.

Bingo.

 

[kniferbro]

I have just spoken with Eugene. He was very helpful and friendly and answered all my questions while saying that he wasn't offended at all. I'm sorry that I upset you so much. In the future I'll probably go straight to the makers with my questions. Thanks to all of those that tried to help me out.

Some times the owner is cool but the dog needs to be muzzled!

 

[Cory Hess]

Some times the owner is cool but the dog needs to be muzzled!

I never called anybody a dog, and don't believe that anybody should be muzzled just because they took exception to something I wrote. Everybody has a right to their opinion, and you do as well. i just want to make sure that nobody mistakes your comment for something that I agree with.

 

[kniferbro]

I never called anybody a dog, and don't believe that anybody should be muzzled just because they took exception to something I wrote. Everybody has a right to their opinion, and you do as well. i just want to make sure that nobody mistakes your comment for something that I agree with.

I never said you called anyone a dog. My comment was my own.

 

[Armadew]

Aaaaaaanyway......

Back on topic....

I've been carrying/using (and flipping) my 247 since I got it and it is breaking in nicely. The opening/closing action improved considerably after flushing out the pivot and putting a drop of oil.

It's now very smooth! I can also start pinch-opening with the thumb-holes now, and I expect it will get even easier as time goes by.

I haven't put it through much slicey tasks yet, but it's opened a lot of boxes! No issue there.