Olamic Wayfarer 247 closing smoothness

[Officer's Match]

I'm pretty new to modern flippers, but I have some questions. I don't want to offend anybody or come across as accusatory. Please take this as somebody that's ignorant of this subject looking to educate himself.

To my eye the Olamic Wayfarer looks like a Hinderer clone. More accurately, it looks like a modified, refined XM-18. The frame is pretty much identical, the spanto blade is pretty close to identical, the lanyard hole placement and shape is pretty much identical, and even the screw placement is pretty much identical. I don't have a lot of experience with upper end modern folders, so I guess I'm wondering if this is normal. The only high end flipper I've owned to this point is a Hinderer XM-18. I like the knife quite a bit, but it's not an easy knife to open. I started looking for a similar knife that would be easier to operate and came across the Wayfarer threads. I was pretty shocked at how similar it looks to my Hinderer. This weekend I went to a knife show and Dave Curtiss had a table there. I loved his F3 and was considering buying one. When i went back a couple days later with my wife and showed her the F3 she commented "Isn't that the same as your orange knife?" referencing my XM-18. When I looked again in that light I was kind of surprised at how similar the F3 really was to my Hinderer. Again, it seemed to me like a refined XM-18.

My questions are: Did Hinderer take this design from somebody else or did it originate with him? Do Olamic and Curtiss license the design from Hinderer? Can I expect that most flippers in this range are going to be pretty much identical like these three knives are? Are there hangups in the community with purchasing a knife that has borrowed so much from another maker?

I don't mean to derail this thread, but while I was reading through it these are the thoughts that popped into my head. Since somebody from Olamic has been posting in this thread I thought it might be the best place to ask these questions and get an answer. If this has all already been gone over can somebody please link me to the appropriate thread? Thanks for your help.

No question there are apparent similarities in the 247 and a 3.5" XM18, and in my book that is a very good thing. The Olamic is a much more authoritative flipper. The grip is much more contoured than an XM, making it actually feel smaller. Also contributing to the "smaller grip" feeling is the tighter spacing between the blade and scales. I love both, but I'll give an automotive analogy: the XM is like a big block 1969 Camaro, and the Olamic is a 2017 SS Camaro. Think refinement vs brute.

 

[Cory Hess]

No question there are apparent similarities in the 247 and a 3.5" XM18, and in my book that is a very good thing. The Olamic is a much more authoritative flipper. The grip is much more contoured than an XM, making it actually feel smaller. Also contributing to the "smaller grip" feeling is the tighter spacing between the blade and scales. I love both, but I'll give an automotive analogy: the XM is like a big block 1969 Camaro, and the Olamic is a 2017 SS Camaro. Think refinement vs brute.

That's pretty much a perfect description of my experience with the F3. What strikes me as odd is that the 2017 SS Camaro is being made by Ford and Chrysler instead of Chevy. I don't know if this is OK or not. I guess that's what I'm questioning.

To this point I've pretty much stuck to traditional knives. It's OK if 3 different companies are making a stockman because it's a pattern that's been around long enough that nobody's really sure where it even came from. Likewise, it's OK for multiple makers to put out a Lanny's Clip because Tony Bose gives them his blessing. I'm wondering if Hinderer's design falls into the former category, the latter, or is it something else altogether. In the modern knife world is it generally accepted that companies are going to borrow so heavily from what their competition is doing?

I want to restate that I'm not trying to accuse anybody of anything. Reading back what I just typed it comes across as pretty accusatory and confrontational. I'm not trying to be that way, but I want to be clear in what I'm asking. I don't know how to be clear without coming across as at least a little rude.

 

[Lord_Balkan]

That's pretty much a perfect description of my experience with the F3. What strikes me as odd is that the 2017 SS Camaro is being made by Ford and Chrysler instead of Chevy. I don't know if this is OK or not. I guess that's what I'm questioning.

To this point I've pretty much stuck to traditional knives. It's OK if 3 different companies are making a stockman because it's a pattern that's been around long enough that nobody's really sure where it even came from. Likewise, it's OK for multiple makers to put out a Lanny's Clip because Tony Bose gives them his blessing. I'm wondering if Hinderer's design falls into the former category, the latter, or is it something else altogether. In the modern knife world is it generally accepted that companies are going to borrow so heavily from what their competition is doing?

I want to restate that I'm not trying to accuse anybody of anything. Reading back what I just typed it comes across as pretty accusatory and confrontational. I'm not trying to be that way, but I want to be clear in what I'm asking. I don't know how to be clear without coming across as at least a little rude.

I also think there are only so many functional shapes you can make for a handle that these similarities can be completely coincidental.

 

[Cory Hess]

I also think there are only so many functional shapes you can make for a handle that these similarities can be completely coincidental.

I guess I didn't consider that. Is there a reason why the screws and lanyard hole placement and shape would be so similar? Maybe they tried a bunch of different stuff and what the ended up with is the configuration that works the best structurally. Maybe a lanyard in that specific spot works better than it would in other spots. Like I said, this is all pretty new to me.

 

[Armadew]

 

[Armadew]

Thickness is similar to the Endura

 

[Armadew]

I do not see much similarity with XM-18 at all. Different blade shape/grind. Different handle shape, different pivot, pocket clip, etc etc. Besides the fact that they are both titanium framelock flippers that have an oval lanyard hole, they are very different animals.

 

[Cory Hess]

I do not see much similarity with XM-18 at all.

Those two knives look pretty much identical to me. I'm trying to understand how somebody else can look at those knives and not see similarities. For example, if we look at this knife:

I'd say that that's another framelock flipper that has some major differences from the Wayfarer and XM-18. There are obviously similarities, but there are also some substantial differences. The differences between the Wayfarer and Hinderer seem pretty minimal to me as an outsider. I understand that the actions are vastly different, but the designs are pretty darn close to my eye.

 

[Armadew]

Those two knives look pretty much identical to me. I'm trying to understand how somebody else can look at those knives and not see similarities.

I don't understand how anyone can say there are even close to identical. Literally everything is different besides the lanyard hole. It's like we have different eyes.

 

[Officer's Match]

I do not see much similarity with XM-18 at all. Different blade shape/grind. Different handle shape, different pivot, pocket clip, etc etc. Besides the fact that they are both titanium framelock flippers that have an oval lanyard hole, they are very different animals.

This is a pic I took that I have posted previously. Look closer, it is the 247 sitting on top of the XM18 3.5" Spanto.

 

[rexbo]

It's not just what you "see", some of the bigger differences are what you don't see. Pivot washers vs caged bearings, stop pins, lock bar insert, etc.

 

[Officer's Match]

It's not just what you "see", some of the bigger differences are what you don't see. Pivot washers vs caged bearings, stop pins, lock bar insert, etc.

Absolutely COMPLETELY agree, but the overall shape is indisputable. The character of the two knives could not however be more different, other than both are truly high quality.

 

[Armadew]

Another match!

I'll grant you they have similarish shapes. If you squint...and ignore the differences. [emoji14]

But let's maybe stop derailing this thread. You can start a new one if yoy want to discuss further.

 

[Cory Hess]

It's not just what you "see", some of the bigger differences are what you don't see. Pivot washers vs caged bearings, stop pins, lock bar insert, etc.

For sure, I get that 100%. I'm more talking to the things that we can see on a picture. I call that the design of the knife, but I might be using the wrong word. I don't know if there's a more specific term that excludes the innards so to speak.

I also want to say that I really appreciate everybody that's taken the time to try to help me understand this. I hesitated to post my questions for fear of ensuing flames, either against me or Olamic or Hinderer. I'm relieved that my questions seem to be taken in the tone I intended. Thank you for that.

 

[Lord_Balkan]

This is a pic I took that I have posted previously. Look closer, it is the 247 sitting on top of the XM18 3.5" Spanto.

There are certainly some design similarities, but that can be said about a lot of things. It is not similar enough at all to raise any eyebrows imo.

 

[evilgreg]

Those two knives look pretty much identical to me. I'm trying to understand how somebody else can look at those knives and not see similarities.

I'm with Armadew--I see lots of differences, not just in appearance but in function as well (e.g. opening hole vs thumb studs, wildly superior action on the 247, different blade shape, blade grind, handle shape, flipper shape, etc.)

Maybe we're taking crazy pills, but those knives look pretty different to me. Another data point that indicates they're different--I like the top one and have no interest in the bottom one.

 

[Quiet]

I'm pretty new to modern flippers, but I have some questions. I don't want to offend anybody or come across as accusatory. Please take this as somebody that's ignorant of this subject looking to educate himself.

To my eye the Olamic Wayfarer looks like a Hinderer clone. More accurately, it looks like a modified, refined XM-18. The frame is pretty much identical, the spanto blade is pretty close to identical, the lanyard hole placement and shape is pretty much identical, and even the screw placement is pretty much identical. I don't have a lot of experience with upper end modern folders, so I guess I'm wondering if this is normal. The only high end flipper I've owned to this point is a Hinderer XM-18. I like the knife quite a bit, but it's not an easy knife to open. I started looking for a similar knife that would be easier to operate and came across the Wayfarer threads. I was pretty shocked at how similar it looks to my Hinderer. This weekend I went to a knife show and Dave Curtiss had a table there. I loved his F3 and was considering buying one. When i went back a couple days later with my wife and showed her the F3 she commented "Isn't that the same as your orange knife?" referencing my XM-18. When I looked again in that light I was kind of surprised at how similar the F3 really was to my Hinderer. Again, it seemed to me like a refined XM-18.

My questions are: Did Hinderer take this design from somebody else or did it originate with him? Do Olamic and Curtiss license the design from Hinderer? Can I expect that most flippers in this range are going to be pretty much identical like these three knives are? Are there hangups in the community with purchasing a knife that has borrowed so much from another maker?

I don't mean to derail this thread, but while I was reading through it these are the thoughts that popped into my head. Since somebody from Olamic has been posting in this thread I thought it might be the best place to ask these questions and get an answer. If this has all already been gone over can somebody please link me to the appropriate thread? Thanks for your help.

What? They aren't identical at all. So why would Olamic answer these questions? Anyone holding both knives can see the clear differences. Please look up the term "Identical", because you keep using it, and I don't think you know what it means.

 

[Quiet]

That's pretty much a perfect description of my experience with the F3. What strikes me as odd is that the 2017 SS Camaro is being made by Ford and Chrysler instead of Chevy. I don't know if this is OK or not. I guess that's what I'm questioning.

To this point I've pretty much stuck to traditional knives. It's OK if 3 different companies are making a stockman because it's a pattern that's been around long enough that nobody's really sure where it even came from. Likewise, it's OK for multiple makers to put out a Lanny's Clip because Tony Bose gives them his blessing. I'm wondering if Hinderer's design falls into the former category, the latter, or is it something else altogether. In the modern knife world is it generally accepted that companies are going to borrow so heavily from what their competition is doing?

I want to restate that I'm not trying to accuse anybody of anything. Reading back what I just typed it comes across as pretty accusatory and confrontational. I'm not trying to be that way, but I want to be clear in what I'm asking. I don't know how to be clear without coming across as at least a little rude.

By claiming that you believe Olamic's Wayfarer design is "identical" to Hinderer's XM-18 design, and then asking whether or not they've licensed the design for their knife from Hinderer, this is kinda exactly what you're doing.

I don't understand how anyone can say there are even close to identical. Literally everything is different besides the lanyard hole. It's like we have different eyes.

My eyes must have come from the same batch as yours did, man. There are a plenty of differences between the two knives from a stylistic standpoint. :thumbup:

 

[Officer's Match]

I truly think some responses here missed the point for the most part. No animus here, just pointing out that the tip, pivot, butt, grip configuration (by that, I mean "1+3" finger arrangement, "bent tail", downward blade cant), and overall size are a really interesting match. I truly never saw it until I placed my 247 and 3.5" Spanto side by side (as well as stacked). Yes, they are very different and unique knives, but that doesn't mean they are not very similar in some compelling respects.

 

[Quiet]

I truly think some responses here missed the point for the most part. No animus here, just pointing out that the tip, pivot, butt, grip configuration (by that, I mean "1+3" finger arrangement, "bent tail", downward blade cant), and overall size are a really interesting match. I truly never saw it until I placed my 247 and 3.5" Spanto side by side (as well as stacked). Yes, they are very different and unique knives, but that doesn't mean they are not very similar in some compelling respects.

You'd agree, however, that there's nothing "identical" about the two, correct? Also, and this is the real question, what if that design simply came about through standard desireable ergonomic qualities? A finger choil, and a grip which is designed to lean the blade of the knife forward toward the work while filling the hand. And are topside swedges on drop-points now a "Hinderer was totally the first one to come up with this" feature? Plenty of knives other than Hinderers (or Olamics) have a choil, downsloping grip, swedges, or three post placements at the heel of the knife. Heh, if the Cold Steel Recon 1 only had one choil, it would look a lot like these two knives. Does Lynn Thompson owe Olamic or Hinderer some royalty money? RUT ROW.