"Old Knives"

wlfryjr said:
Now you need to show the blades on that Italian jewel Charlie.

The die David posted might have stuck the old Challenge in this group of challenge.

The bottom knife in the first scan is marked Krakauer, Zork , and Moyes Suc.'s El Paso Tx ( that's a lot on a tang stamp) . I believe it is Challenge made because of construction and the ethnic (Jewish) connection between the hardware owner and the Challenge president. All the others are Challenge marked, with the forth down ,having the arch stamp.


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Wow! Lyle, I love the way you have seized Niche in the Knife World, and that is the Farmers Jack- Gorgeous Knives- and these examples are just amazing!
 
wlfryjr said:
Now you need to show the blades on that Italian jewel Charlie.

The die David posted might have stuck the old Challenge in this group of challenge.

The bottom knife in the first scan is marked Krakauer, Zork , and Moyes Suc.'s El Paso Tx ( that's a lot on a tang stamp) . I believe it is Challenge made because of construction and the ethnic (Jewish) connection between the hardware owner and the Challenge president. All the others are Challenge marked, with the forth down ,having the arch stamp.


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Nice collection of Challenges.

So you think Challenge made the Krakauer, Zork , and Moyes Suc.'s El Paso Tx? How about this one, the only one in my collection? To me, the bone looks more like NYKC, although I have seen a few Schrades in this thread that are similar, too.
qtLz4Td.jpg
 
Gorgeous Bone on those examples, Theres so many secrets to unlock with the relationships of these amazing Cutlery Firms, Challenge also present another challenge ( sorry about that) and that is when we see Challenge Harness Jack knives with Empire Punches.

But you guys are asking the same questions I have in the past when I look at my Challenge Scout especially, the Bone immediately hits as being extremely similar to NYK Bone, I am not saying that NYK made my Knife- but either way, the Bone is stunning on these Knives. Really interesting!
 
I can offer this Krakauer Zork & Moyes pearl premium stockman to the conversation as well, which is undoubtedly a Challenge produced knife when you review other examples of their stockman knives featuring their in house stamp. I have drawn the etch from what I can tell as wellkrakauer.jpg

krakauer2.jpg0219240844~2.jpg
 
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tongueriver said:
I know that I posted this elsewhere some years back; maybe not here?
3 1/2 inches closed shadow-bolster equal-end ‘Senator’ pen knife. Four blades, 3 being different shapes of pen blades, and the fourth being a manicure blade with file surface on both sides. All blades have long nail pulls, half stops, swedged spines, file-worked spines, and are all tang-stamped STAND over T.RENSHAW (in an arch) over & SON over SHEFFIELD. All blades have good snap both opening and closing and very positive half stops. They butt up to their respective spring ends when opened in a square and flush perfect manner. All blades have a mirror or crocus polished finish and are near 100%. The brass liners are milled all 360° around the knife. The springs are file-worked in a manner matching the blade spines. There are thumb cutouts for all four nail pulls. It appears that the file cuts on the springs have been treated to gold leaf. The three pins are nickel silver. There is an elegant nickel silver shield, blank and presumably pinned. Covers are controversial; there has been some discussion amongst aficionados over this example as to whether they are celluloid or sea turtle (commonly called tortoise). This is undecided. There is a substantial pin crack on the mark side on the end hosting the manicure blade. There is a piece missing from the analogous pin on the pile side, on the end hosting the largest blade. This knife was probably carried to some degree but I see no evidence of sharpening or use. It has its own molded leather two-part slip case, like a little telescoping box. When opened we see a cartouche in gold leaf “THOS RENSHAW” in an arch, over & SON over SHEFFIELD in a reverse arch, all in an outlined oval. This little knife was absolute top-of-the-line Ladies’ or Gentlemen’s knife. Goins says 1859 to 1900 for this company.

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Wow! That knife has every possible feature of quality craftsmanship.
I don't know much about determining real from faux 'tortoise', but it doesn't seem like the kind of knife the cutler would hold back on top-of-the-line materials. Assuming the real stuff was available, it's hard to imagine putting in that much work and then covering it in celluloid...
 
I'm with R8shell and would be quite surprised that Celluloid was used, I guess there's a way to find out for sure and that is find that Knife on a Catalog page, it should state Tortoise or wording of the sorts " Faux Tortoise or Celluloid etc.

Two outstanding Knives Cal.
Have you had any sort of Magnification where that wee bit is missing to see if you can ascertain the use of Gold Leaf under Tortoise Shell?

Within "Tweedales Directory Of Sheffield Cutlery manufacturers 1740 - 2010", on page 336.

Renshaw's Founded in1840, first listed in Directories in 1850, Thomas Renshaw died suddenly at home in 1893 aged 77 years old, leaving behind two sons, one of whom, William was Manager of STAND Works. Renshaw's was no longer listed on any directory in 1900,

Now one very interesting sentence in the 1/4 page information on Renshaw's and Sons reads:

The Trade Mark was the word "STAND" and the firm registered a Silver mark in Sheffield in1896, Table and pocket cutlery ( in Pearl, Tortoiseshell, ivory and Horn) were the main lines, alongside Scissors and Razors". end of quote

So it would be very likely that that is Natural Material rather than Cell?
 
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Jeff those were quality knives.

That's a museum piece Mike. Any comment on the bone discussion . NYK-Challenge .
Hey Cal... Beautiful knives
 
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